MasterAwesome

1 hour ago, Jackie Lee said:

 

I'm glad the Dillon Johnson book hasn't been shut.  His one half of a preseason game has the potential to induct him into the Panthers' HOF alongside David Gettis, Marvin McNutt, and Brandon Wegher.

29 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

No! Brown is my favorite and he is allowed infinite hype pieces!

and War Eagle! 

Lucky for you, my steamy Derrick Brown fanfic "A-Gap Penetration" will be released this weekend.

All right Panthers' conglomerate...I usually go to bat for you as much as anybody, but maybe we can consolidate our multiple Derrick Brown features into one thread/article?

I'd say Chuba is definitely worth a late round pick.  He should be the feature back early on, and if he performs well in that role, I could see the Panthers bringing Brooks along more slowly just to spell Hubbard.

1 hour ago, strato said:

Bro, placing them in the light that 'the OL was solely responsible' is about like saying they were not responsible at all. Maybe not that far but you get the point. Neither is accurate.

When I see the stats of how much time there was to throw listed (which has been posted somewhere), they don't indicate a jailbreak on every single down. Same as there wasn't a ton of time on every single down.

There was time, at times. (edit: and there were open targets not seen or the ball was held and not thrown in that window).

If people don't or won't consider those plays in the sum of it all, that's their prerogative. Doesn't mean those things never happened. 

 

edit

I'm sorry but this is just such a confusing response to what I posted.  Who are you trying to convince that Bryce was part of the problem?  I don't think I could have made it any more clear in my post that I acknowledge he was.  I actually explicitly stated my position and asked the other guy to express what was unreasonable about it, so I'll ask you the same.

17 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

According to most fans Bryce should be somewhere on the bottom of that list. This can't be right....wtf is going on here???

The whole "our o-line/WRs/coaches were actually good last year" Revisionism World Tour some of y'all are going on recently, is a level of sunshine and rainbows that would make even Bryce apologists blush.  You would think we had a talented playoff-caliber team whose success was thwarted single-handedly by Bryce.  Yet ironically those of you who recently want to downplay our o-line/WR/coaching struggles last year are the same people who argue we have the worst, least talented roster in the NFL...so which is it?

Simply put: do you agree that o-line/WR/coaching last year were net negatives?  If so, then this petty squabbling about whether they were worst or bottom five or bottom ten is a silly distraction.  The position of the fans you're referring to is simply that every facet of our offense was a mess (including Bryce) and that it was such a dysfunctional symphony of a dumpster fire that it's hard to apportion what percentage of blame goes where, and that this season will largely clear that debate up.  Which is basically exactly what @Icege outlined above.  Can you articulate why you find that position to be unreasonable?

44 minutes ago, strato said:

Half a second? Yeah. A tenth of a second makes the difference much of the time. Even less. Closing speed of defender vs ball speed in a race to the target is the biggest threat to a low velocity throw. 

 

Stats... here they go with the 20 yard deep stats again.

I would bet, if I gambled, that the completion percentages for 20 yard throws are better than for 30 yards, and decline as distance of the throw increases.

But let's lump it all together and then we can use it to argue that not having a potent deep threat isn't that big of a deal. I love stats. 

 

 

I don't understand your argument.  If you acknowledge that stats would look worse on 30+ yard passes than 20+ yard passes, then wouldn't they be better off using 30+ yard passes if they're trying to make the bolded argument that you're saying they're trying to make?  Those passes from 20-30 yards that you wish to exclude, are actually helping to make deep passes look much more successful on paper.

47 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Does this team hate Jordan Matthews or something? Geez! Get a pass rusher or another quick twitch WR in case Diontae goes down.

42 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Already have the most productive TE from training camp on the PS, but you know an injured Ian Thomas is too important. 

Matthews has been on the Active Roster since last Thursday.

Did you jump ship to NOLA, @TheSpecialJuan ?

1 hour ago, frankw said:

With all the talk of what defines quality starting QB play I got to thinking about mediocre QB's here over the years that looked at least decent at the time in limited action. Matt Moore came to mind. I had forgotten he played for the Chiefs and got himself a ring.

The interesting thing though. In 2011 with the Dolphins when he played the most amount of games in a single season in his whole career (13). He threw for just shy of 2,500 yards on 347 attempts (lol). For comparison sake last season our starting QB threw for 2,877 yards on 527 attempts. That's 180 more attempts through 3 games just to surpass Matt Moore by less than 400 yards at a time when the league is setup to greatly benefit not just offense but passers in general. That's crazy. Take from that what you will.

Dave Canales. Please save us.

Not sure that we need to develop new creative convoluted ways to argue that Bryce had a really poor year statistically when that is so obvious and universally accepted. Unless you think anyone has ever touted Bryce’s production last season?
 

Also Matt Moore’s 7.2 YPA that year is not “lol”, that would’ve put him in the top half of NFL starting QBs this past season. On par with Hurts/Love, and above Mahomes.

5 hours ago, CRA said:

Probably not that much 

49% of the roster is 27 and above

It’s no big deal but I think it does sort of highlight how the Panthers live in a no man’s land in terms of vision and planning.  The win now and rebuilding all at the same time approach which has been the “plan” ever since Rhule.  

we should of rebuilt when Ron left.  We never committed to such 

“Win now” vs “rebuilding” has more to do with money/contracts/assets than simply age of roster. Even rebuilding teams need vets to help develop the younger guys. I don’t think there’s anything inherently contradictory about a team who is rebuilding/“retooling”, but has the 3rd or 5th or w/e oldest roster. It’s not that reductive.

The difference between the youngest and oldest team in the league is 2.1 years. Doesn’t seem all that significant.

17 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Dan Morgan's quote.  "It’s a big man’s league”

 

how else are you to take it.  

 

So why did we not just sort our 90-man roster by height and just sign all of the tallest players then? Why did we keep 5’10 Diontae Johnson over 6’2 Terrace Marshall Jr.? I mean, he did say “it’s a big man’s league” after all…

5 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

Rattler’s TD pass is a throw Young doesn’t have in his bag

Not quite sure what Young has in his bag but that’s definitely not in there 

6 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

 

And as our resident deep pass expert, what’d you think about this throw?

Huddle: “we’ve got the weakest roster in the NFL”

Also Huddle when we cut our 9th string RB: “WTF!!!!”

2 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Someone should tell Andy Reid he's an idiot.

Sirianni is the idiot for resting his starters in both games already. No wonder the Eagles have sucked since he took over.

5 minutes ago, frankw said:

Nobody here knows what's going to happen.

It's interesting you complain about the way I presented your position as if there is some fascinating and deep reasoning you're holding onto in your back pocket and then refuse to provide anything other than speculation same as me.

You can have the last word. Been good chatting with you.

Word.

11 minutes ago, frankw said:

Trying to perform a psychological analysis on someone online over a difference of opinion regarding approach to preseason of all things is probably a pretty good indicator that you are as much a part of the perceived problem as the others that you claim are hindering dialogue so much.

Almost like I’m giving my opinion…that tends to be what you’re giving when you start something off with “I think”. Bro, you trying to hinder my dialogue?? Attacking my opinion during a criticism about allowing differences of opinion is next level irony.

5 minutes ago, frankw said:

Why don't we just spare each the rabble rousing and just define our positions so we can move on?

I want the Panthers and specifically this third coaching staff in three years to prove to me that this is the path before I buy in like I'm being sold a timeshare by some huckster I just met.

You believe it's the correct call because you think that's what a good fan should do or you just believe it in your gut or because Dave Canales has such a strong jawline and powerful charisma and charm that he just couldn't possibly be wrong about this.

In the end my preference is for you to be proven right because that means we are actually moving in a good direction for a change.

Differing opinions are good. We both want the same result anyway.

Settled? Cool.

“Let’s define our positions so we can move on” - then you proceed to define my position for me, in the most absurd and cartoonish way possible. I think everyone understands my position except you for some reason. You already misstate my position in the first six words (hint: I don’t think there’s a “correct” call one way or the other) and then from there you venture into some weird fanfic territory. You don’t come across as someone wanting to have a productive discussion, which is something I appreciate about someone like @strato who I’m sure agrees with you on 95% of your opinions but can engage with the substance instead of the weird performative posturing.

I think those people complaining about playing vs. resting starters stems from a combination of two things: 

1) impatience and desire from a fan standpoint to watch our guys play. This one I understand and relate with - I’ve been without real Panthers football for 7 months and would much rather see the starters out there and I’m super curious to see how they look in a game situation.

2) simply sheer resentment for the team. I get it and I can understand why fans are resentful after how awful we’ve been. But resentment leads to irrational behavior. You ever experience a growing resentment towards someone? All of a sudden the way they breathe, the way they walk, a simple question they ask you, just occupying the same space can be extremely irritating. It’s not a rational emotion to be triggered by anything and everything someone does. That’s what it comes across as, when some of you attack everything no matter how trivial it is. Yes I agree we’re awful, so that seems like more the reason to save our energy complaining about things that matter…?

8 minutes ago, frankw said:

DeMeco Ryans has already won a playoff game in his first season as a head coach.

The Panthers haven't been to the playoffs since what the 2017 season?

But we've finally found the formula everyone. No more preseason for us

Even though this has absolutely nothing to do with my argument, I’ll play this game with you. We’re not supposed to compare ourselves to good teams, so how about we compare two good teams to each other? Sean McVay has won a Super Bowl and been to the playoffs 5 of his 7 seasons - he’s a hell of a lot more accomplished than DeMeco Ryans.  He doesn’t play his starters in preseason. So what conclusion am I to draw from that? Is McVay therefore correct and DeMeco is wrong? See how dumb and pointless this argument is?

1 hour ago, WUnderhill said:

You are completely missing the point. People are and have been arguing that it’s some unique thing to the Panthers and/or that it’s a barometer of success. You’ve got no problem with people saying Andy Reid plays his starters, but you do have a problem with people saying Sean McVay doesn’t play his starters.

Yeah exactly, I was gonna mention that too but I was already venturing into tl/dr territory. People have no problem comparing us to good teams when it serves their point. But when it detracts from their point, it’s “we shouldn’t be comparing ourselves to those teams”. Frank himself even specifically pointed out Demeco Ryans thinking playing starters was a good idea, clearly to make a point that that’s something good/smart teams do. But when it’s something good and bad teams do in a roughly even split, then it seems like it’s a pretty poor indicator of successful philosophy and rather just a function of personal coach preference. 

1 hour ago, frankw said:

The only team that thinks preseason is useless is also the reigning worst team by a significant margin until proven otherwise.

Also anyone trying to compare us to the Rams at this point in time is about to OD on hopium.

I don't know what you expect here.  You guys argue things like "no successful team/player does ______" and when you're presented with an example of so-and-so successful team/player doing that very thing, then you say "oh are you seriously comparing us to that successful team??".  Yes, that's the point...?

All we have to go off of so far is Week 1 of preseason (we don't know yet what Canales is planning for weeks 2 & 3).  And there were several other teams who rested all/most starters in the first game: Rams, Ravens, Dolphins, Giants, Lions, Eagles, Jets, Buccs, 49ers, Cardinals, Cowboys.  There are some really good teams in there, but I know we're not supposed to ever draw any comparisons no matter how minor to the good teams, so I've bolded the meh teams whose comparisons you will hopefully accept.  The point is that good and bad teams rest their starters in the preseason - that has very little correlation one way or the other. 

Yes I understand and even agree that we might have particular incentive to play starters based off of last season's struggles and having a lot of new additions this year (roster and coaching staff alike), but I'm just pushing back on the notion that resting starters is some unheard of thing that is unique to us (i.e. we're the "only team that thinks preseason is useless").

1 hour ago, t96 said:

Bryce will suck but post nfl career he will win a grammy

That is a sizzling hot take if you've seen this video.

It's a shame that Jaycee Horn has been riddled with injuries cause he really could be a superstar fan favorite if he can just stay on the field.  He's really the full package: talent, charisma, leadership.