MasterAwesome

1 hour ago, CRA said:

well, the argument was made that from Stroud to Mahomes.....no QB would have done better here.  How you just going to, not say something lol 

While I think it'd be silly for anyone to argue that Mahomes wouldn't have done any better here (and is obviously leagues above Bryce), it's worth mentioning...I watched the Raiders/Chiefs game late last year and man did Mahomes and that offense look like absolute trash in a game where Mahomes was continuously running for his life behind an o-line that couldn't block for poo, while trying to throw to receivers getting zero separation, and getting zero help from his run game.  You know, the norm for Bryce every week.  It really did look like I was watching a Panthers game.  That was a game against Aidan O'Connell with a final stat line of 9/21 for 62 yards 0 TDs and yet Mahomes and the Chiefs managed 7 total points up until 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter in arguably garbage time.

1 hour ago, frankw said:

Only here on the huddle has acknowledging reality become only negativity and or hate.

Remember when you claimed Bryce never worked privately with his receivers last offseason? Then when you were presented with an article and photos showing just that, you called it a fake photo op? Remember continuously suggesting that Bryce is shorter than his official height taken at the Combine? Remember the report that came out about Nicole Tepper wanting Stroud and you saying that was BS that the team leaked so Nicole Tepper could save face?
 

Most of what we discuss in here is opinion-based, but those are three empirical evidence-based examples that your conspiracy-brain has rejected based on nothing but your feelings…so I think you’ve forfeited your right to invoke “reality”, buddy. Unless we’re just operating in two different dimensions of the Multiverse. But if we’re actually acknowledging reality, you’ve taken coping to new heights. I’ve genuinely never seen anyone work so hard trying to gaslight people into believing that any report you disagree with is automatically fake.

1 hour ago, Jackie Lee said:

This is a little different I suppose

 

As someone with no swag who has about a 39% dap success rate, I can’t overstate how much anxiety this video gave me. But coach nailed it.

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

You are going to trigger some many size bros with that picture….

Oopsies 

6 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

pointing out he is smaller then last season is considered "hate"?  Interesting

He looks about the same size to me...here's a pic from this time last year for comparison:

20 hours ago, top dawg said:

It appeared to me that you said basically the same thing that he did is all.

I guess you could say he....parroted someone else's opinion 

12 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I shared supporting evidence. You just parrot other people's opinions. We ain't the same.

On 3/29/2024 at 9:45 PM, Jackie Lee said:

Hmm I'd like to go back and watch what he had on Mingo last year as well....Haven't watched their tape back to back but the ras scores are nearly identical

 

You're not the same?  You're very much parroting things other people have posted in here.  You didn't come up with the Mingo/Legette comparison lol.  Seems like you both read evaluations of prospects and based on what is compelling to you, you formed an opinion.  That's a very normal thing to do...not sure why the petty self-righteousness.

Your evidence only supports that the two of them are very similar physically/athletically.  I don't think you've supported your broader argument that they are similar prospects.  You're basically unironically doing the meme on here where every short agile WR prospect = Steve Smith.

1 hour ago, strato said:

No he is not being blamed for the last two seasons but you really cannot excuse Young’s effect last year. I know you want to, so you do.

 

 

So by your logic, the jury is still out on Ian Thomas because of the "Young effect".  All we have to do is ignore all of his previous seasons pre-Young where he looked like the same guy as last year.

Now a rookie Bryce Young is being blamed for TMJ having done nothing in his three year career.  Poor guy is turning into the "Thanks Obama" meme.

30 minutes ago, CRA said:

I do think you can talk about what we can see....and Bryce Young to date, presents more like an Eli Manning type at QB than a Cam Newton in terms of how he carries himself.   I mean, there isn't one path/way to do things.  

end of the day, Eli got 2 rings. 

Right...that's my point.  There's no one archetype of a leader.  Some people seem to think a leader is someone who is fiery and screams a lot.  Like I guess Travis Kelce screaming in the face of Andy Reid in the Super Bowl must have given these people chills as the epitome of leadership.  So that's what people want and expect from Bryce, but for better or worse he ain't that...although he does have that side to him as well as was evident during the primetime game against the Bears.  I'm not even saying Bryce is for sure some kind of amazing leader.  But I think judging his leadership off how much he yells and his team's W/L record is asinine.  For example the camera would often pan to him on the sideline standing up and rallying his o-line.  That's more of the stuff I associate with leadership.

19 hours ago, frankw said:

Worst team in the league by a wide margin (didn't we get shut out by the fuging Jaguars lol) and you don't see a distinct lack of leadership? That starts at the top.

I agree that we had a distinct lack of leadership, but I don't know how you can begin to assign the blame to any one individual player.  A head coach, sure.  But I think if your team of grey-haired NFL coaches and multi-year NFL vets has to rely on a 22-year-old rookie to be the sole leader or else everything comes crashing down, then you've got some serious problems in that locker room that go far beyond the QB.  Saying "we were a bad team, ergo Bryce Young is a bad leader" just seems like a weird leap to make.

Surely your criteria for a QB's leadership isn't as simple as his team's W/L record...right?  I'm just curious then, do you think Cam Newton was a good leader every odd season, but a bad leader every even season?  Or is it more likely that team performance is an unreliable metric for leadership?

Blast Young's arm strength and physical size all you want, that's fair game.  But baselessly questioning Young's leadership makes you no better than the people you railed against for questioning Stroud's character in the offseason.  Let's not be one of those people who apply principles inconsistently depending on whether it's someone you like or dislike.

36 minutes ago, frankw said:

First of all. Don't come at me sideways with this and act like you haven't seen the loudest Bryce Young defenders shitposting about how big of a bust Jonathan Mingo is while laying out excuses for Young.

If we are talking about lack of effort. They both can and should get the smoke. That goes for any player in that regard. We didn't finish with 2 wins because everyone was laying it on the line. Of course when your QB throws 2 pick sixes to the same defender in one game who is going to go out of their way?

But regardless for the subject you are bringing to me situational awareness is needed. Jonathan Mingo is not sitting on a 40+ million dollar guaranteed contract. This is not Jonathan Mingo's team. He is not the face of the franchise. We didn't trade a premium player and multiple picks including a first overall to acquire him.

It's ultimately up to the QB to lead his team. Why do you have an issue with me or anyone else expecting that of Bryce Young?

By all accounts it looks like we are assuredly drafting another WR in the second round. That rookie will require some refining and he will require his starting QB along with his coaches to guide him in learning the offense. Just as Mingo has. That's what I expect out of my #1 pick. Look what Stroud has done for his receiving core as a rookie. He's also brings an undisputed presence of leadership. That is what I want to see. Plain and simple.

So you're telling me you came in here to complain about something someone said about Mingo at some time in the past in some other thread that actually has nothing to do with anything anyone said about him in here.  Got it...not sure why you proudly clarified that as if that makes you sound reasonable.  At least it makes more sense why you just made a general passive-aggressive comment about these mysterious people who say Mingo is the worst NFL receiver we ever drafted instead of actually directly quoting a post, since there was nothing to quote.

Also can you clarify your basis for comparison as to how Stroud brings an undisputed presence of leadership while questioning Young's leadership?  What exactly are you basing that off of?

3 hours ago, frankw said:

Idk about Legette. But can we please stop acting like Mingo is the worst WR we've ever drafted? Certainly he left some things to be desired but we traded up to draft a QB #1 that couldn't even hit him deep in one of the most basic scenarios any starting QB worth his salt turns into a touchdown 10 times out of 10.

It's fair to wonder how Mingo would have looked if Dalton had played a few more games.

It's so strange...you complain about people treating Bryce with kiddie gloves, yet you find it so offensive that people say Mingo is not a good route runner?  That's where criticism goes over the line for you?  That's more coddling than I've seen anyone do for Bryce.  Don't talk about people white knighting for Bryce and then be this sensitive to the mildest of criticisms for Mingo.

Mingo had 3 catches for 21 yards with Dalton throwing the ball 58 times so it doesn't bode particularly well for your thought experiment.  If you think our offense looked so much more effective with Dalton and yet Mingo is putting up the same consistently minimal production with both QBs, then that would suggest Mingo is at fault for his own struggles.

15 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Jfc can we just not with the bot?

I just don't understand why it bothers people so much and why you guys can't just not click the thread (or put the bot on ignore).  Even amongst a standard fluff piece, there are pieces of factual information I enjoy extracting from these articles that I hadn't heard otherwise.  Something as simple as Bryce and Canales getting together for 3-hour long dinners to build rapport and reflect on last season's struggles.  Maybe not groundbreaking news, but it still provides more value and insight to me than a hundredth mock draft or a thread discussing whether we're going to even win a single game next year. 

36 minutes ago, rayzor said:

i forgot it was banned. 

i might try to lift it leading up to the draft.

Yes please do...the "fluff" is just a small percentage of what it posts; it also often breaks news and posts articles with good factual info that nobody else here would have linked otherwise.  I don't see why we can't just apply the same rule we use broadly of "if you aren't interested, don't click it".  People can ignore topics posted by the bot instead of swarming to the thread to post about how much those posts bother them.

1 hour ago, CRA said:

well, the team that traded for the 33rd last year was for a QB that slid... 

I mean, and all they got was a 3rd.  That's some bad recent precedent in terms of value to get out of it.  and we are the Panthers.....so we probably would trade the 33rd for a 8th rounder.  Only to realize, that didn't exist.  

I mean, I like a solid well-timed "I mean" as much as the next guy, but...it's getting a bit out of control.

5 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

I know Luvu did and we got a couple years out of him. My point was that you don’t trade for bad team’s garbage bin, you sign them cheap and hope they work out. We basically said the same thing.

Also, not sure I agree with you on dumpster diving bad teams. I think teams like Pittsburgh and KC are good places to dive as well because with more good players at certain positions, the backup they can’t re-sign might be a quality starter when given the chance. That might be more common than finding a poorly coached and developed diamond. It’s a bit of luck and it doesn’t happen that often. Addison was our last high level gem. Luvu is actually a decent example of who to go for because the Jets had quality defensive players. It was their offense/QBs that sucked hence not trading for Darnold would have been smart.

Yeah that's reasonable.  I think I take more issue with people in here discounting a signing just because they came from a bad team, because I see that a lot (including with Luvu when we signed him).  Your take on Luvu being the type of player we should go for because the Jets' D was loaded is a more nuanced approach than I think most people take in here.  I can definitely see both sides, which ultimately leads me to the probably uncontroversial take of evaluating players on their own merits and not harping too much on what team they came from.

15 hours ago, frankw said:

Yeah it's a tough situation could have made a case for keeping him given our need but also can easily make the case that he was an acquisition made out of necessity and he hasn't held up his end of the bargain now with two different teams despite where he was drafted.

Nothing against the guy he didn't make the trade Fitterer did. Good luck to him.

Hey let's just agree to stop sifting through the lost and found bin of teams like the Jaguars going forward considering we're the worst team in the league until proven otherwise.

1 hour ago, WhoKnows said:

Hah, we’ve been sifting through the Jets, Browns and Jax trash bins. At least we learned something after firing Fitterer. Don’t trade 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th round picks for their garbage, do what every other team does and sign them to cheap deals and cut them if they don’t do well.

Keep in mind Frankie Luvu came from an awful Jets team's trash bin.  I dunno, I can almost see the opposite approach in favor of scouring through bad teams' rosters.  Who do you think is more likely to have a hidden gem with untapped potential?  A team like us with a knack for bad coaching, inability to develop players, and playing players out of position?  Or a team like the Chiefs or Steelers?  If those teams let a player go, I'm going to be skeptical and wonder if they're a product of their system who was overperforming relative to their skill and talent level.

That being said, I'm not advocating trading assets for these players (I'm wary of trading assets period) like we did with Henderson, but I'm not opposed to "dumpster diving" Free Agency for players who just came from bad teams.

17 minutes ago, frankw said:

Why would I make that up? I believe it was PNP that had a livestream reaction going and they posted it to YouTube that talked about that blurb in there on his deep ball inaccuracy and there was a thread here that discussed it as well. You're saying I'm lying saying I'm hating yada yada after you sought out the post to quote all this on initially. Kinda disappointing but hey it's cool. Appreciate the convo.

If you aren't even willing to concede something so innocuous like Bryce Young having a genuine private workout with his receivers (when shown an actual article documenting it) or Bryce Young being genuinely 5'10 (which is already very short for a QB) despite his official measurement being taken at the Combine, then don't clutch your pearls and get offended if someone thinks you're a hater and/or simply questions a claim you've made but not backed up.  Take some responsibility for how you're being perceived on these boards.  You're painting yourself as a dishonest actor when you show a repeated pattern of unwillingness to accept anything that conflicts with your opinion.

48 minutes ago, frankw said:

Well it bares repeating that Andy Dalton who is a pretty awful QB at this stage in his career made it work with the important prerequisites you mentioned.

Last seasons results weren't all Mingo and the rest of the receiving cores fault. Nor were said results all of Bryce Young's fault clearly.

But you also can't negate the fact that when Bryce Young was on the field every defense we faced had seen the film. The film of said route running and the film of Bryce Young not utilizing the entire field. All of that made their jobs significantly easier.

I do agree I have high hopes for our new WR from the Steelers. Though if what I've read from a Steelers fan here who seemed pretty straightforward about his assessment of Johnson is true then we should keep expectations relatively even until we've seen him with this group for a few games.

Idk man looks more like a photo op to me.

Let's remember Bryce Young looked to be the most rusty and inaccurate of the three QB's in the deep passing drills at BOA during camp. Even moreso than Matt Corral. How did that translate to the regular season?

We'll just have to see what his approach is this season.

I've never seen a group of people blow a single game so out of proportion than y'all do for Andy Dalton.  Were you among the group of posters who thought we found our franchise QB when Kyle Allen and Sam Darnold played pretty well in their first few starts with us?  I would assume so, if we were being consistent here.  But no, you were dismissing the hype and cautioning to hold off as they were likely to come crashing down.  All of a sudden now, Dalton's singular game where he threw the ball 58 times (almost 20 more attempts than Bryce had in his season-high) is enough to draw conclusions and pass judgment.  It would be silly of me to argue that Bryce > Dalton because his win% on the season was 12.5% vs. Dalton's 0%, right?  But those are the kind of foolish arguments you open yourself up to when you want to compare them based on a sample size of one Dalton start.

Dalton is a lot of things, including a 13-year NFL veteran QB with 163 starts under his belt.  And you guys are so eager to compare him to a rookie QB whose acclimation to the NFL was accompanied by one of the worst o-line/WR/coaching trio to have cursed our eyes through the television.  Dalton is experienced enough to make the most out of an awful situation...Bryce had to try and learn that on the fly, and understandably struggled.  Yes Bryce was part of the problem too, but I can understand why.  This year IMO is when the smoke starts to clear and we get a better sense of just how much of the problem he was.

15 hours ago, frankw said:

Was Bryce Young not allowed to put in extra time developing a rapport with his wide receivers?

Let's hope that's changed for 2024.

Well you're ignoring the parts preceding the rapport; route running and awareness are pretty important prerequisites.  No amount of rapport is going to overcome erratic route running.  I don't think it's a coincidence that Bryce had the most success connecting with a 33-year-old very slow and unathletic  Adam Thielen.  Because their strengths complement one another.  Thielen is the type of receiver Bryce needs IMO, not necessarily athletic freaks.  And that's why I'm eager to see how Diontae Johnson does in our offense because he seems (on paper at least) to be a Thielen-type who can get open but with some actual YAC ability.

26 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

He never specifically did—Bama however did list him at 6’0 194 when in reality he’s that 5’10 185ish. 

Oh okay I didn't know we were talking about college.  Cause people still talk about Bryce Young's 5'10 height in here like it's a conspiracy, posting pictures of him standing next to so-and-so person (Mina Kimes, Drew Brees, etc.) and acting like he's secretly 5'3 or something.  I don't think anyone ever took his 6'0 194 Alabama listing seriously.  Colleges routinely overstate their players' height (see link), but for some reason with Bryce Young, it's a huge deal what his college listed him as.  And not only that...but Bryce is the one lying, not Alabama.

https://sports.yahoo.com/many-nfl-combine-participants-are-significantly-shorter-than-listed-on-college-roster-013654441.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALoitnBT4i6jUJU3exaPYjrbNA0P0c0PHITAA9tTLd3vWYEDeGXBjomNGx-m5YN-mWLBXwUTqvDJR_y97BNnNHatrUnYuMcYGCX8pe35AxyXW8pRmpzdXTRa5aMHETWYplOjs0U8OpLJnUqt6b41hSeuwyt-6QhiVcWWSCUU0kcE

On 3/16/2024 at 7:50 PM, ECHornet said:

That’s not a terrible throw. It’s Mingo having some of the worst field awareness since Dan Orlovsky was playing QB. 

On 3/17/2024 at 1:13 PM, fanpanther said:

Leading the receiver towards the sideline allowing him to drag his feet and make the catch low and away .  The pass was behind the wr causing him to try and stop or reach back making it a tough catch but still should have been caught . Tough throw also but one 1st overall pick should make.   Both seem terrible maybe this year will be better if not both should be gone. 

Well, the NFL analyst who actually tweeted out the clip that was linked in here has an opinion on that:

I'm inclined to agree with him since Mingo is just sprinting full speed towards the sideline.  Sure, if Bryce had an absolute rocket launcher of an arm then he probably could've snuck that inbounds while also leading Mingo, but realistically speaking...that looked like a lack of awareness to me.  It wouldn't be the first or second time Mingo was criticized for lack of awareness during the season.  But beyond that, I think the bigger picture is that Bryce and the WRs largely didn't seem to be on the same page other than Thielen.  I still think Bryce is the type of QB who needs good route runners with good awareness who he has rapport with.  Guys who he trusts to be where he expects them to be when he releases the football.

23 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Lying like bryce young. 

Bryce has always been listed as 5'10 and his official Combine measurement was 5'10 and 1/8", so how did he lie about his height?