CPantherKing

Great post. Love football strategic breakdowns like this, but from all appearances the goal is to use Bene as the big nickel. That's been brought up consistently this offseason and why they made the effort to try and sign a big CB to play the outside. Bene is 6'0" and a sure tackler for a CB and that's the role they drafted him for.

 

They did, and they suffered through it with the stretch from the Steelers to the Vikings, but at the end of the season they removed Bene from the big nickel packages and inserted Colin Jones. Bene was 10 times better on the outside. The Steelers, Ravens, Bears and Vikings games were just awful for Bene on the inside in that Big Nickel. When he was placed on the outside for the final four games he shined.

 

Now, Bene can still play in nickel and dime packages on definite passing downs. Just keep him out of the box against spread offenses with short yardage.

 

Shaq is the answer for the Panthers defense. We need him or a player like him in free agency when the Panthers hit games 4 to 8. Shaq has been the Panthers target before the combine. This is the player I see all signs pointing toward. Personally, I want DE Owamagbe Odighizuwa at the end of the first round.

Stop wishing for Shane Ray. This organization will do everything to avoid a hot head distraction at this point.

 

It will be Shaq Thompson. Personally, I want Odighizuwa, but I am okay with Erik Kendricks or Shaq Thompson. The Panthers have been investing a lot of time in Shaq Thompson of all the 1st round draft pick options. 3 visits and went to his pro day.

 

The only other drafted players that have seen this much attention from the organization pre-draft in the Rivera Era are Cam Newton, Luke Kuechly, and Kelvin Benjamin.

 

I would also like to note how something eerily similar to a player in the pre-draft process last year has been happening.

 

Last season the Panthers met with Benjamin extensively at the combine, a few workouts/visits, and his pro day. The Panthers saw Benjamin more than any other prospect. Benjamin ran surprisingly slow at the combine and brushed off some workouts with other teams. Then he chose to not run at his pro day when teams wanted him to run again, and he ignored their requests. So, he slips in the draft and could have possibly slid to the 2nd round.

 

This offseason the Panthers met extensively with Shaq Thompson at the combine, had 3 workouts/visits, and his pro day. The first round draft prospect the Panthers spent the most time with this offseason has been Thompson. Shaq Thompson baffled people who expected a better 40 and combine performance. He has been telling other teams he is a bit tired after working out for them. At his pro day he refused to run the 40 for teams who were requesting it. Now he is slipping in the draft from mid 1st round to 2nd round.

 

And the interest from the Panthers never declined on either of those players.

 

Shaq Thompson came into SKLZ in San Diego running a 4.52. He left running in the low 4.4s right before the draft. He consistently beat Melvin Gordon in the 40 over a 7 week period at SKLZ, and Melvin Gordon ran a 4.52 at the combine. So, yeah I think he tanked his 40. One reason for this is he does not want a team to pick him as a RB, but the other thing that allowed him to do this was he was told by 2 teams they would take him as a LB at the combine. What are the chances the Panthers were 1 of those 2 teams?

 

 

There is photographic evidence of bruises and scrapes all over her body; enough evidence that a judge found him guilty and now the NFL has suspended him after viewing.

And Hardy paid her an undisclosed amount of money to keep quiet and go away so he could avoid a jury trial.

Yep, nothing is proven. Poor, innocent Greg.

 

Please! People, go read over the time line and articles detailing the facts. Read the parts of testimony available. Read the police report. Look at the types of photos in evidence. Listen to what the DA said after learning more about Holder. Listen to the 911 calls.

 

The police report states she had minor bruising and scratching on her and refused any medical treatment.

 

So, what is the simplest answer to why a drunk woman at 4 AM chasing a person barefoot while using her heels as weapons with broken glass on the floor and stumbling to the ground got minor scratches and bruising on her arms, legs, feet and back?

 

If a person gets beat, choked,  thrown in a bathtub, dragged by the hair from the bathroom to another room, and body slammed on a bunch of assault weapons they will not have minor bruising and scratches, I assure you. You can go check out actual photos of actual victims who had less happen to them compared to what Holder claims happened to her.

 

Then you factor in the DA and Superior Court Judge raising concerns about Nicole Holder's credibility after reviewing her multiple versions of the night in question. This is what ultimately kept the trial from going forward. They did not need Holder to continue prosecution unless she lacked credibility. So, stop with this nonsense that Hardy made this go away by paying her off. Hardy's money did not convince the DA and Judge that Holder's accounts did not hold credibility and the photos were not sufficient enough to prove she had been assaulted by Hardy.

 

This is the same woman who followed Hardy out of a club, 2 nights prior to the 911 call, screaming and crying. She proceeded to block his car from leaving by standing in its path and was challenging him to hit her. Holder then began kicking Hardy's car and police were called to remove her and let Hardy leave.

 

Holder's friend and co-worker, Laura Iwanicki, testified that Holder on the night prior to the 911 call said, "He hasn't seen crazy yet."

 

Then during the incident she keeps demanding for Hardy to break her arm, and remember Hardy left Holder and the party that night just like he walked away from her at the club. He returned later and told her to leave, and she refused to leave. There is a pattern or arguing and Hardy turning his back and leaving her. There is a pattern of her with erratic and violent behavior demonstrating destructive rage while physically assaulting Hardy and having to have the police called on her on more than one occasion.

 

Hardy has never had the police called on him. Nicole Holder had the police called on her at least 3 times from March 2014 to May 2014 by more than just Greg Hardy. She also has a history of telling the police fantastic accounts of what happened at the scene for multiple incidents.

 

DA and Superior Court Judge trump District Court Judge. Police description at scene trumps Goodell's description.

 

I do not care what anyone believes about this case, but if you are going to discuss it then refer to the facts.

If the NFL is correct, and Hardy is guilty of physically harming Nicole Holder on 4 occasions, then he should be banned from the NFL. Zero tolerance.

 

If you believe the NC justice system, then you believe there is not enough physical evidence to elevate this to a felony for physical battery on a woman and it is a he said/she said with a lack of evidence to pursue a trial by jury for a misdemeanor without the victim. The state of NC has officially deemed Greg Hardy not guilty of the accused crime. So, there should be no suspension by the NFL on a man who is not guilty of the accusations according to the legal system.

 

So, a 10 game suspension is absolutely ridiculous from both sides of this argument. A suspension of any kind is not 'zero tolerance'.

 

I would love for someone to make the argument that anyone guilty of domestic violence should be allowed to continue to play in the NFL and that it should be tolerated with a harsh suspension.

He didn't get suspended because he was accused. He got suspended because there were photos showing the evidence of how he beat her.

It's not an accusation, it's a fact.

So, now one must believe the NC judicial system or the NFL statement. They contradict each other.

If what the NFL states is true, then this case should have been elevated to a felony, the district court judge is wrong for omitting the physical battery in her judgement, and the DA should be removed for throwing out the case as there was enough physical evidence to move forward without Nicole Holder. Also, the officers Hardy called to the scene should be investigated since they failed to make an immediate arrest on a DV call when there was enough physical evidence.

If the legal system is correct and this is a misdemeanor where the officers had no grounds to make an arrest on the spot, and the DA did not have enough physical evidence to move forward in the case without Nicole Holder, then the NFL is about to lose their case when this goes to a judge.

If the later is true, Goodell should lose his job. If the NFL is just in their assessment, then the judge, officers, and DA should be held accountable.

I will defer to the judge, officers, and DA over Goodell and his idiot overpaid lawyers. Track record shows Goodell loses to the justice system every time. Keep in mind in the previous cases Goodell lost there was sufficient evidence.

This could very well line Hardy ' s pockets even more if Goodell loses this in front of a judge.

Does anyone realize the biggest hit on this with the NFL statement goes to the state of North Carolina? This indirectly infers that NC is an incompetent state that is soft on domestic violence in the public eye.

Well, first I will focus on definite patterns. Rivera always gets off to a slow start prior to the BYE. Rivera always gets out coached against the Seahawks and Packers. The Panthers will lose to a team they were suppose to beat outside of division games (Vikings 2014/2011; Bills 2013; Chiefs 2012) . The Panthers will lose at least 2 division games. Rivera loses home openers, games before the BYE and games following the BYE. Rivera gets blown out in prime time when he faces playoff caliber teams 0-4 in the last 4 and 1-5 overall with the one Monday night win against the Patriots. Panthers finish strong to try and save Rivera's job. I believe a majority of fans would agree with these patterns. 

 

So, following those patterns let's begin.

 

@ JAC L
vs HOU W
vs NO W
@ TB L
BYE
@ SEA L
vs PHI L Prime time
vs IND L Prime time
vs GB L
@ TEN W
vs WAS W
@ DAL L Prime time and revenge game for ex-player (double whammie)
@ NO L
vs ATL W
@ NYG W
@ ATL W
vs TB W

 

I can see the Panthers based on their players and talent getting 11 wins, but factor in the coaching and patterns and I see an 8-8 season. That is about right for a Rivera led team with talent. Let's hope the coaches buck those 4 year trends, or the division is so horrible again that the Panthers get the division title with 8 wins.

Check out the Belk Bowl to compare Chris Conley to Devante Parker:

 

Parker

 

 

Conley (Charles Gaines, who posted a 4.34 40 on one of his 40 attempts at the combine, is assigned to Conley. Also, check out the run blocking and how far down field Conley is opening up the runs.)

 

 

Who looks better to you when they get to the pro level?

 

Chris Conley was key on the first 2 touchdowns Georgia scored in the Belk Bowl. One in the pass where he owned Gaines and Sample. One in the run where he owned the entire secondary. Sample, Holliman and Gaines are so afraid of Conley's speed he has them down the field 35 yards making blocks on a running play. He essentially clears out the lane to perfection on 3 DBs. Then Conley follows that up with a key block on Chubb's TD run that gave Chubb a block and cover on an angle to take a DLs pursuit angle out of the play. These plays are at the 1:30, 3:22, and 3:35 marks.

 

 

Enjoy if you want to know more about Conley in comparison to the top WRs in the draft.

Chris Conley:

 

- Caught 70% of the balls thrown to him.

- Converted 80% of his receptions into 1st downs and TDs.

- Averaged 16.6 yards per reception.

- Hard to bring down.

- Best blocking WR in the draft. Never gave up. He had the ability to block multiple defenders down field by using angles, and he was responsible for several touchdown blocks in the running game.

- Consistently timed his speed to gain 2 to 3 steps of separation when the ball was in the air.

- Was the leading receiver for the Bulldogs, but was hampered by the lack of passing attempts and the philosophy of spreading the ball around to 5 or more receivers in a game.

- Excellent at tracking the ball in the air at full speed.

- On a per target basis Conley out produces both Amari Cooper and Kevin White when you look at their career production.

- Great awareness of sidelines and first down marker. Uses his feet, knee, and forearm well to ensure he stays in bounds when coming down with the catch.

- Good use of hands to create separation when the ball arrives.

- Consistently beats his man off the line.

- Good at setting up his defender, reading the defenders hips, and using his quickness and acceleration to create separation off the line of scrimmage. Demonstrated in this video:

 

 

Honestly, besides the limited opportunities he had per season due to the system he was in, there were no major flaws in his game.

 

He has elevated himself to a late 2nd round/3rd round pick. It appears Belichick has some serious interest in Conley.

Probably talking about this... Roman Harper is in the back saying, "Daaayyyyuuuummmm!!!"

 

The best WRs are not even in the first round. The 2015 season will prove that.

 

There are 2 to 3 WRs being overlooked. If they were in a system that puts these college WRs in the first round, they would be talked about as a top 15 pick.

Explain how 'the team is not being built well enough to compete', particularly in the context of judging, after only two years, a revitalization plan that the GM said from day one will take three years to complete. I won't dispute that the other NFCS teams are seemingly a mess, but there is nothing Carolina can do about that.

 

Do the Panthers have the coaches, OL, RBs, and #2 WR or #2 TE to put up 30 points against a team like the Packers, Seahawks, Cowboys, or Eagles? Have they shown any success in developing any of these areas over the past 2 seasons?

 

That is how they are not being built to compete.

 

The Panthers have a nice influx on the defensive side over the past 2 seasons. That makes me feel good about winning a horrible division, beating the bad teams in the NFL, squeaking out 7 to 9 wins in a season, and seeing the playoffs with a possible division championship.

 

Confidence in beating the best and seeing an NFC Championship or Super Bowl? None at all. That is due to what I have seen in the offseason from the front office and what I see during the season with the coaching.

Compare our roster two tears ago with what we have now.

 

Heck, compare prior drafts when we weren't even hitting on second and third round picks.

 

Biggest factor of all for me, though? 

 

in the prior eighteen years of this team's history, we've gone to the playoffs four times, and never in back to back seasons.  In only two years as a GM, Gettleman has already reached the playoffs half as many times as our entire history before him, and the first time in consecutive seasons.  If we make the playoffs this year, it'll only take one more appearance to equal that record.

 

You don't accomplish that without solid choices.

 

You do accomplish that with a lot of luck in a suck division when you as the GM take the team from top 4 in the NFL in production to #23.

 

Well if you are satisfied with division championships, you make a valid point.

 

Now for the people who want to see the NFC Championship game and Super Bowl, that brings up a lot of questions regarding the way the coaches and front office are running this team.

 

After 4 straight division championships (if that ever occurs and it probably will not) and no NFC Championship game under the teams belt, then we will see what you all say.

 

The Panthers are going to need to win the NFC South with 7 or 8 wins this season. The home schedule is brutal, and the Panthers do not have the coaching or personnel to match up against most of the teams they will face in 2015.

 

This team is not being built well enough to compete with the Packers, Cowboys, Eagles, Seahawks, Giants, Colts, and Texans. All of which play the Panthers this season.

Who I expect the Panthers to draft:

1 - Owamagbe Odighizuwa DE UCLA

2 - Jaquiski Tartt S Samford

3 - Ameer Abdullah RB Nebraska

4 - Dezmin Lewis WR Central Arkansas

Other than Barner and Kugbila...his drafts have been pretty damn solid

 

There is more to a draft, than just drafting players. The quantity as well as the quality of the players count. Gettleman has missed on some quality, and has missed on a lot when it comes to quantity.

 

Based on production and starts by a drafted player the Panthers rank 20th with a 48 point value on their picks over the 2013 and 2014 drafts.

 

The top team is Green Bay with a 91 point value for their picks. Nearly doubling the Panthers draft pick production.

 

Puts it into perspective using measurable values instead of opinion.

 

For example, no matter how you subjectively view AJ Klein or Kony Ealy they have not started games or produced near as much as other teams draft picks over the same time. You can talk someone up all you want, but until they produce at the same level as other players they will not carry the same value as those players who are producing.

 

Think of it as return on investment to date.

 

So if by solid you are stating he has done an average/mediocre job in the draft. I agree. Other GMs have had strong and good drafts - better than solid.

He will have trouble on the NFL level. He is extremely talented, but has shown a huge lack of focus in developing his game. Very sloppy in his all around game.

You know what you have in Cam Newton. If you like it, he is the franchise. If you don't, deal him for something to a team who wants to work with him.

 

Stop trying to change Cam's game. Let Cam be Cam and win with it. Otherwise, part ways.

 

Bill Walsh made it known that while he had a system designed for the offense, the thing about Montana is he would have those moments he went away from the design. Walsh wanted that in his offense. You live with the failures and learn from them.

 

Tom Landry was known for his system over player mentality. It wasn't until he trusted his gut and went with Staubach who would deviate from the system at times that he won a Super Bowl.

 

The lesson is to embrace the failures of your QB if you believe he is the one to lead the franchise. It will make all the difference. It was the coaches who needed to accept their players, change their mindset, and trust in their players perceived flaws. The coaches needed to become more sound to win championships.

 

Let Cam be Cam!!!

I thought Thomas Davis was not a UFA until 2019.

 

He would turn 36 if that were the case. Why an extension? Maybe I am wrong.

 

As for Charles Johnson he is near the end of his time with the Panthers. DEs in a 4-3 get a lot of wear and tear and once you hit 30 it is time to take a reserve role or move to LB in a 3-4 to lengthen your career if that is possible. It would not shock me if we land one or two DEs in the draft and make Johnson a post June 1st cut saving the Panthers 10 million against the cap this year.

Well looks like Hardy will go to Dallas or Seattle. Two of the teams in the Panthers way for a Super Bowl.

 

Well at least Steve Smith, DeAngelo Williams, and Brandon LaFell are in the AFC.

 

What sucks is all 4 of them have better odds of winning a Super Bowl than the Carolina Panthers.

 

So, 5 of the top 8 GMs in the NFL go after players the Panthers had to get them to the next level. Seems like the Panthers are just a farm team for the NFL elite. These 8 GMs play off the weaker GMs.

 

I hope Gettleman has something up his sleeve, because it just seems this team is getting weaker and making the stronger teams even stronger.

If I were to make you drive in a car with a bad brake line and an air bag that does not work one year leading to several near fatal collisions, and then the next year I say I am taking care of you by fixing the air bag in that heap of junk, have I done my job to protect you?

 

Fix the freaking OL Gettleman and stop saying you solved the problem by tossing in another retread.

 

Even Jonathan Stewart made it nationally known that all you need to do on the offense is get some better offensive lineman. Stewart said he would be thinking he was going to get blind sided on every play if he were in Cam's shoes. Get better starters and make the likes of Remmers, Norwell, and Oher the depth when the starters get hurt. Stop using the rally cry about HogMollies while giving Cam and the running game lame cows.

Michael Oher at LT. You have got to be kidding me. At least Nate Chandler is ready to step in.

I can pick any of you for GM of an NFL team that has an IQ over 100 and you all can play GM from your home computer and never see the inside of the stadium or meet any of the players you sign. And you know what? I will be assured of a 6-8 win season just about every season with you all shaking it up if the team has a season that goes 5 wins or less. And you will have a season every 4 or 5 years that will produce 10+ wins.

 

You could get rid of the front office and turn your team into a reality competition show and the fans of your team can buy Virtual GM memberships to vote for what players are kept and what coaches are kept. The team would cut the salaries from their overhead and make more money off the entertainment value of the team. Plus, their ticket sales and merchandise would go up year round. And you will still be guaranteed a 6-8 win season with a 10+ win season every 5 seasons.

 

Hell, I could get football baby to make all the decisions and I would get the same freaking results.

 

You are going to have 6 to12 teams in a season finish with 10+ wins. You are going to have 6 to 8 teams in a season finish with 5 or fewer wins. The talent level of the players will get you wins in the season. The skill of your coaches will get you wins in the playoffs. A GM is accountable to both of these aspects of the team, and the overall record and playoff production is representative of your GM.

 

The GM competes against 32 other GMs and only the top 8 are successful enough to retain. You gauge a GM by number of 10+ win seasons and number of playoff wins. If a GM is not skilled enough to crack the top 8 in 3 seasons and maintain that for a few consecutive seasons at a time, you get a new GM. Choosing to retain a GM who is not motivated to be the best in his profession is a recipe for team mediocrity.

 

This leads me to Gettleman's statement, "I've seen many teams win the Super Bowl in March. The idea is to win the Super Bowl in February. That is the goal."

 

Tell Seattle, New England, Denver, San Francisco, and Baltimore that load of garbage.

 

There are severe flaws in Gettleman's statement. He is dismissive of the action to motivate and follow smaller goals to a larger goal. He is already putting emphasis on the larger goal without any attention to the steps that must be successfully attained to be put in a position for the larger goal. This shows a severe lack of collective efficacy. I call his self efficacy into question as we all know his ability to create a strong sense of belief in his organization and fan base is extremely poor. This has been demonstrated by his comments and comments of players and coaches under his watch.

 

Gettleman has proven to me to be mediocre as a GM. He is not even close to the top 8 GMs in the NFL. The question is how many seasons will it take for the rest of the Carolina Panthers organization to realize this truth?

 

He should stick to scouting. It does not matter how talented the players are that you bring into the team if you fail to create the chemistry and environment necessary to believe in victory every moment, every day, and every month. Even in March!

 

I will leave you all with this sage advice.

 

The title of this thread should be "Hakeem Nicks using the Panthers as leverage again."

No contest to a felony versus not guilty of all charges for a misdemeanor. Not quite sure how you think the later would not receive a lesser penalty if any at all.

 

Anyway moving on.

 

And Drew Rosenhaus will not negotiate terms until he knows the penalty since that will determine Hardy's value in 2015.

Gettleman has signed a bunch of garbage the past two offseasons. We still have Roman Harper on the roster penciled in as the starter.

 

Sign him to a 2 year minimum deal with incentives if he stays healthy. Give him the option to work with TD and his people. Gettleman is fine with tossing out his free agent signings mid season.

 

You have Oher, Remmers, Chandler, and Byron Bell can come off the couch and play just as well as he did last season. Upgrade over last season easy, and you can always draft an OT regardless of round to work into a starting spot.

 

Given the Panthers OL situation, this is a move worth making if you can get him for the minimum.