WOW!!

i wasn't trying to say smith and hardy are similar situations.

just that the smith cut may show DG's opinion has a higher value than many of us could imagine with JR. This could work in Hardy's favor for us retaining him. JR and smith are really, really tight.

i think the players love greg and i think greg loves ron and playing for the panthers. I just think when he sees those dollar signs (that is also dependent on some things) that he will take the money and run. I wouldn't blame him.

There are just so many damn moving parts to all of this it's very hard to come up with even a 70% conclusion either way. i'm sure this has been posted before in some way but i haven't read all the way through this thread.

I agree.

If Dave can keep Greg for below his market value I think he will..

But I think Greg will see the bigger Dollar signs some where else and leave.

if he ends up in the south i'm going to vomit.

and pray DG knows his OT's

That's the 2nd best situation for me..

If Hardy isn't going to be here.. I hope his loyalty and love

for this organization is strong enough.. He won't even consider playing in the division for a rival...

He can act however he wants. The problem seems to be you dont want to accept that.

Yes I give Bill way more credit than Max Henson.. I don't accept Bill being a fluff writer for hits on his site.. I'm sorry for that..

i don't think it's a publicity stunt, but it does create some buzz, which is good for business and i appreciate voth for writing it. Shows a bit of insider information which is fun to talk about. But at the end of the day do you think players going to JR are going to influence him enough to actually consider it? Especially with what Hardy put us through this past season? still seems unlikely. especially with the NFL logo at the 50 yard line. my hope is DG is really running things (smith cut shows something) and that DG loving his pass rushers will kind of spark something.

If DG passes on Hardy it means hardy is a bigger fughead than anybody here knows. DG's favorite players are pass rushers and Hardy is the best in the business, especially for his young age.

there are a lot of things going on right now and we are all trying to make sense of it.

I think JR and Dave are shrew business men....and will always try to make a good business decision... If Hardy is willing to accommodate the Panthers demands. . Play for less than his true value and make concessions to the team and FO on his actions. .. Dave and JR will make the decision to keep a top 5 pass rushers that makes your team better ... and get him for below market value. .

JR has made this decision before.. Smitty while being one of the Best WR in the game...was a head ache on a week to week basis and way more of a problem in the locker room than Hardy was.. I also think JR being a former players will put stock in the opinion of the locker room.. And it seems like Greg has a strong backing in the Locker room...

Again all this is dependent on Greg being very loyal and almost a dumb ass and not taking the money and run...

None of this changes anything.

The balls in Hardy's court. Unless he's willing to play for less, it's highly unlikely he's coming back to Charlotte.

Easier said than, done!

Not that complicated.

That's the point. . The reason why Bill is even wasting time on this could be Hardy trying to accommodate Panthers demands on him being here... We don't know Hardy heart and loyalty for this team.. He might be willing to do the things he needs to stay on this team... And that is the reason Bill wrote the articles..

there is a clear difference in the worth of opinions.

someone says. geno is better than cam he is a worthless stat he was better at one year than Cam. keep in mind this person is not joking.

it's obvious this person should be pointed at and laughed at for not being logical.

then there is someone who says hardy wont be back because of x,y,z which are logical reasons even if they may not be completely true when the end result happens. they are still logical and flow with a certain train of thought that makes sense. result: fug THAT MOTHERfugER STOP ACTING LIKE YOU KNOW EVERYTHING fug YOU BITCH STOP POSTING.

at the end of the day, i'm sure CRA, jeremy and those who are saying these things want hardy back because he makes our team better. I want him back, i just know its more unlikely than likely.

The problem with CRA opinion is he's acting like this a non story. . And Bill is only doing this as some sort of publicity stunt. .. I'm just want to give Bill credit that he is better than that..

I guess my point that is overlooked is....

Voth's article doesn't really contradict his prior opinions.

He again states Hardy is likely gone and the owner and FO don't trust him.....in the article people are claiming is him changing his stance. He just is explaining the longshot odds bc he finally had something come up to help support the tiny percentage shot of him being a Panther.....which he stated again he doesn't believe will happen.

Nobody is saying he is changing his thinking on the situation... All people are saying that his opinion of it being a "forgone conclusion" is changing. .. Which it has.. Bill wouldn't waste his time if he still had no doubt that Hardy is gone...

I don't feel it's a fluff piece at at all. Not Bill's style. He would not report on things that aren't actually happening. He is as tuned in to the organization as anyone else out there. I would take the article at its face value.

Leave the fluff to BR.

Thank you.. I also Believe Bill wouldn't waste his time contradicting a opinion he has had since Training Camp for hits on his site... He could do a whole series on the draft and get more hits..Bill is obviously hearing a different tone out of the people he trust in the FO and being a good reporter... he is reporting it.. He still has the same opinion the only thing that's change is his opinion that it was a "forgone conclusion"..

As CRA, I thinks Voth is just trying to get hits.

What incentive would Hardy have playing for below market value, unless he gets rewarded later. And even that makes no sense, cause he can always screw up at a moments notice.

Voth, can say what he want about the Panthers talking to Hardy. Not sure he makes much difference, unless it's for below market value.

However, I don't think anyone knows (including Voth) if this is even close to a possibility.

Voth can write a whole series on draft and draft prospects and get hits... He doesn't have to write a article contradicting his long stated opinion of the Hardy situation. .. He even on a radio interview actually stated "he could be wrong" for the 1st time ...When other times he had no doubt that Greg was done here... What media person wants to admit that unless there's a chance they are wrong..

It's the dumbest thing ever to think a Beat writer wants to retract his opinion with no reason to do so...

Rick Bonnell for weeks told people "there was no chance the Hornets were interested in signing Lance Stephenson"... He didn't change his opinion until they were in negotiations with Lance Stephehson. .. Than you started seeing Bonell writing contradictory stories to his previous opinion. ..

This story with Voth is the same situation. .. Voth has stated without a shed of a doubt that Hardy wouldn't be here past last season.. Even before Training Camp.. He hasn't shown any doubt until this week.. So obviously he is hearing different things than what he was hearing before or he wouldn't have wasted his time...

No. In the article Voth addresses his beliefs.

That Hardy most likely won't be here

That Richardson and the FO don't trust him

He again addresses the financial situation

AND states that despite JR and the FO office not trusting him or wanting him JR won't slam doors in someone's face that wanted to plea for Hardy bc he isn't that type owner.....and that is the glimmer of hope Hardy fans have.

All that is in his article. So yeah, per Voth's article he believes Hardy is done. Nothing in life is 100%. So his job was then to find the super small percentage and explain it

So again it's not a fluff piece because he didn't have to write it... unless something has changed in the air and it might not be a forgone conclusion like he thought weeks days and months ago... Obviously Voth wrote this and went on the radio talking about this because he is hearing a different tone than he was before. . Why is it so important to you and others that people shouldn't have hope we can get Hardy back??

It will only have to be a "prove it deal". Neither GMan, or JR will take the risk of resigning Hardy for a market level deal.

As bad as Smitty was over the years (and he was bad); he never cost the Panthers $$, by not playing 15 games in one season. So though Smitty punching out a player was really bad (and it was). He still didn't cost JR all that money. You cannot imagine how much that stings to an owner, especially with another prospective contract looming.

Very difficult, to see Hardy coming back, unless it's a team friendly deal.

The point of this change in many opinions is the thinking that Greg might actually be willing to play here for below his value. .. If he wasn't Bill Voth wouldn't even waste his time writing this story. ..

The only reason Smitty wasn't more of a money pit at times. . Is because the Panthers didn't punish his actions accordingly. . He could have been suspended more for fights with teammates and fights against opponents. .

It is very hard to see Hardy coming back here unless he is willing to effectively bend to the Panthers demands... but the only reason this is even discussed now is this might be a possibility. ..

Maybe or maybe some people don't deal well with people who have different opinions....

you are acting as if Voth just wrote some earth shattering news that now makes the general assumption Hardy is done now isn't likely......but Voth didn't.

All Voth did was throw a little poo out to get the Hardy crowd stirring again.

I'll repeat my point. Greg Hardy is done in Carolina. Logically following the team and all information provided suggests that. Bill Voth believes Hardy is gone too..and none of that is bullpoo. And no, my opinion won't change unless someone provided an actual REALISTIC argument that makes sense that Hardy had a shot of being here.

Your point? I'm not even sure....you seem to be more about broad poster knocking. If not post something or someone credible that believes/shows Hardy will be a Panther

That's your opinion of what he doing.. but it's pretty funny you think you can determine the intent of another person WRITING. ..

I love Greg Hardy and hope he comes back and plays for the Panthers. He is one of my favorite players and I love that he is insane.

But let's not forget something very important. His trip to the commissioners exempt list was negotiated by the league, the panthers, and Hardy's agent.

Greg could have said you know what I did it I'm sorry give me a misdemeanor and a deferred judgement where it goes away after 3-5 years if I complete sensitivity and anger management courses and stay out of trouble, suspend me six games without pay, and I'll see you in November.

His own agent helped negotiate him getting on the list because he wanted to continue to get paid during this whole thing.

Now if he comes back at a reduced salary of say $8MM or signs a 5 year deal with a team where year one doesn't pay him as much, then that was a smart move because then if he gets a suspension, each game check he will lose will be substantially smaller.

If you don't think Hardy's lawyers and financial people thought of this well before any of us did you are crazy. He wasn't sitting on the curb on mint street just begging to play because he is so black and blue awesome. This so far has gone down perfectly for Hardy.

I don't think Bill would even put this out unless he is truly hearing Greg is willing to make concessions to be on this team... just my opinion. . Bill 2 major points on Greg not being here were if no legal actions were taking against him.. were " Greg's asking price for his services" and "Jerry's level of trust and forgiveness".. 1 or both of these things must be happening for Voth to soften on his opinion. .

anyone who thinks we can just offer the vet min and Hardy will be like..."Great! I'm all yours'" are smoking something.

dude is top-5, if not top-3 DE.

It might not be the Vet Minimum that gets him to sign.. And Voth's article is saying that Greg may be willing to play for below market Value to stay here and prove himself to Jerry and the team. I agree he should take tge money and run.. But what we thought about Greg wanting money instead of being here might be wrong. .

I think it was more about not wanting to make a real decision and just kicked the can.

I agree..

The irony is: NONE of these players know what Greg Hardy's going to do in the future!! They can vouch all they want for him on the field. Duh! We already know he's a great player and leader on the field for the Panthers.

That's not why he's in this scenario now. He's in this position, cause he's been historically reckless OFF THE FIELD during his tenure as a Panther. His latest incident, cost the Panther $13 mil, down the drain as Hardy only played one game, with the defense suffering the first 8-10 games.

And no Panther: Not CJ; not Davis; Kalil; Cam, etc., can insist on what Hardy's going to or not do in the future. Nobody knows, regardless what Hardy says or will promise.

Ultimately, the decision will come down to what JR and Gettleman feel in their hearts and pocketbooks!

Was it in JR heart to forgive SMitty as Bright was getting carried out the building to the hospital to get his Jaw fixed and his eye reattach?

Jerry being a former player listen to his locker room. . And Players might not know what Hardy will do.. but it seems like the leaders are willing to stake their reputation on him.. And that should mean a lot to a former player..

In my opinion Gettlemen is a shrew business man type GM... And if he can get a top 10 pass rushers for below market value on a prove it deal...he will..

Lack of trust by "Richardson and others in the building" (probably Gettleman) would be the reason.

Trust can be attained if Greg is willing to play for below his market value on a prove it deal.. Gettlemen nor Jerry aren't dumb.. if they can get a top 5 pass rushers on a below market prove it deal they will..

Don't act like Jerry hasn't made a business decision before. . Smitty got away with worse and still got paid by Jerry..

You should reread the article. It not only says many teammates but names one. It also says team leaders with an 's'.

"Hardy is getting some help from the locker room. Many of his teammates want him back, and some are starting to lean on Jerry Richardson. That support is coming from more players than just cornerback Josh Norman, who’s made it clear he wants Hardy back. We’re talking team leaders, guys who have Richardson’s ear. The Panthers owner has been ready to cut bait with Hardy for months, but he’s also a man willing to listen. That doesn’t mean he’ll change his mind, but he will listen."

That's my point... If Bill Voth is getting different messages than before... it's because Greg is willing to be loyal to the team and Jerry will (for the right Price) make a business decision.. Getting a top 5 pass rushers way below his market value who is showing you he is contrite to the situation he put his team in... is a good business move...especially if the team and coaching staff are on board with bringing hom back... it's a win win situation. ..

Disagree on the article. I think it's a legitimate story, worth paying attention to.

The disconnect is people making too much of how big a 'chance' there really is.

Voth states in the story that the probability of this making a difference is pretty slim and he still ultimately believes Hardy won't be a Panther.

But people latch onto his 'saying there's a chance' like a lovestruck Jim Carrey, so...

I think you're over exaggerating what most of the pro Hardy people are saying. .Most of us are only saying it's not a sure thing he won't be on this team.. If Greg is willing to except the parameters that were set out by Voth's article than there's a chance he will be back... I don't think Greg will because money talks... but if he is willing like Voth's says he might be.. I don't see why the Panthers wouldn't bring him back..

You are saying a judge made a judgement call?

Ground breaking.

Yes I go.. and the NFL looking at the same evidence that again wasn't enough to follow thru without the "victim" testimony might make a different judgment call..

Let's be real IGO the 1st judge (with no reason) chose to go with the victim story (that change 3x) ... while most of us and local media had question about her credibility. ..

And exactly what bullshit are you referring to? All I am doing is not buying nothing as something? You know...pretty much not buying into the bullshit.

For example, you claim the majority of the team is lobbying for him to come back. Voth's piece doesn't claim that. It doesn't even name one person. It suggest at least one team leader may have said something....but even that could be hearsay Voth is running with for what if fun piece.

Hardy is done. That ain't bullshit

You are so full of it on this subject. . You had no problem agreeing and running with Voth when it fit your opinion. . Now that the person who was the 1st on the "Hardy not being back bandwagon" is admitting that a change in that mindset is possible. . You call him a fluff writer... This isn't Panthers .com... Voth doesn't work for the team.. He wouldn't make a fluff piece contradicting his strongly posted opinion. ..He has had since the beginning of the season. .. Unless he is getting a different info than he was getting before. .

And really all he is saying now is that Hardy maybe trying to get back on the team and he has a swell of support from members and staff of the team who Jerry might listen to... He still believes it won't happen... He's only admitting now that it isn't as much of a sure thing as it was before. .

There was enough for the first judge to find him guilty. Our legal system vacates that trial and gives him a trial by jury. However, that trial did happen and there was evidence presented. That evidence will be evaluated by the league.

And the league might find like most people who actually read followed and read the testimony in this case that it was a judgment call by the 1st judge... Not really a fact base conviction. . The league might make a different judgment call based on the evidence. . That again wasn't good enough for the prosecutor to go thru with the jury trial. ..

Greg Olsen is another candidate and CJ word probably carries weight as well..

3 times innocent is less innocent than 1 time innocent?

Interesting concept.

Have you taken this to the American Bar Association?

Yes being accused 3x and paying 3 different people off makes you look more guilty...yes I know crazy concept. .

This is why people need to quit speaking with so much certainty. It's a very fluid situation so just let it play out. Could go either way. Is it more likely he's gone? Maybe, but it's not a foregone conclusion like some of these folks seem to keep reiterating.

This^^^^^