Pantherxtreme

8 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

We may win 5-6 games max. We are bottom 5 team in the league, no questions about it.

Which is crazy because we weren't bottom 5 last season. 

Then we fired the coach that kept us competitive, make a ridiculous trade for Bryce Young and send our best receiver away.

Now we look bad enough to get that #1 pick in the draft that we traded up for in this past draft.

Unfortunately it's going to someone else

All this is probably karma for not hiring Wilks.

We're looking like a Rhule team after playing inspired hard-nosed football at the end of last season. 

Most likely drafted the wrong Qb. 

On top of hiring the wrong coach. 

Been outcoached 3 weeks straight. 

2 minutes ago, NcPsa10 said:

The more our players get hurt  the better we get lol . hmmm

Shades of Ron Rivera

1 minute ago, Wanderlai said:

Nice play by Dalton and Chark. I don’t think Bryce would have seen it. 

This is the most pressure our qb has been under all season. 

I don't think Bryce would fared to well this game. 

I'm hoping he progresses however, we need him to be legit. 

We have no one who can pass rush outside of Burns and blitzing Frankie Luvu.

And some of these guys want to "trade Burns" 

1 minute ago, Navy_football said:

It's not just the players, it's the playcalling with these players. Houston's guys seem better at beating cover 0 than the Panthers receivers. 

I agree the scheme could be better.

We'll have a little better ideal today.

10 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

All 3 of those receivers would start for the Panthers - if Mingo wasn't drafted in the 2nd. He'd play because he's a 2nd rounder. 

2022:

Adam Theilen: 712 yards

Robert Woods: 527 yards

DJ Chark: 502 yards

Nico Collins: 487 yards

Tank Dell: 3rd Rd draft pick

Jonathan Mingo: 2nd Rd draft pick

CJ is blessed to have such weapons 

Just now, Navy_football said:

Huh? Come on guy. I could show you a dozen plays where guys have dropped the ball or just couldn't get to catchable passes. 

He's had a pretty good connection percentage with Theilen, and hasn't really targeted Chark. The only receiver whose been targeted plenty with a low connection rate is Mingo. 

So where are all these drops coming from?

11 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Are you watching the Texans' game? 

If you are and you don't see a difference in separation for receivers, then you have an ulterior motive. It's not even close. If you can't see his recievers making plays for him, then... well you just don't want to see it. Bryce is not perfect. He's made mistakes. But his surrounding cast hasn't really helped. Whereas CJ's guys are just making plays and contested catches. 

As of this point Bryce hasn't given his guys a chance to make contested catches, remember NO SEPARATION, and holding onto the ball.

You are arguing from both sides of the candle stick. 

You can't blame the receivers why Byrce isn't forcing it because tight windows, and then blame them for not making contested catches that Byrce isn't throwing. 

3 minutes ago, Varking said:

Robert Woods

Tank Dell

Nico Collins

You forgot to something.

The GREAT Robert Woods,Tank Dell, and Nico Collins. 

Of course want to see how the offense operates with Dalton, want to see if we can play some complimentary ball this week. 

21 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

They've never been in the same conversation. Ask 32 GMs and I guarantee you for the same money it would be Bosa all day long in under a second. They're not in the same category and never have been. 

Where has it been reported that Burns is asking for 34 million a year since you guys keep bringing up Bosa?

Just now, CPF4LIFE said:

 

Damn 

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

How do I define overpaying Burns? By talking about Bosa in the same conversation.   

 

At the start of 2023 season they are in the same conversation we will see how the rest of the season goes. 

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

Best overall defensive player

start of 2023 - Luvu

2022- Luvu

2021 - Reddick 

2 free agent pickups. 

I mean, you are literally just argued that a sack on a 2pt conversation doesn't matter if you can't point to it on a stat sheet.   Stats aren't the end all be all.   But Bosa and Burns' stats aren't close over the past several years. 

Burns is a great pass rusher.  Love to have him finish the bulks of his career here.  But no, I don't want to drastically overpay Burns.   

People keep trying to turn it into a fraudulent convo.  If you like Burns you should want to overpay him, if you don't want to overpay Burns you are hater.   That's silly.  Carolina has a long history of overpaying.  It becomes really problematic when you are talking about overpaying in the realm some are with Burns.  If it comes down to Bosa-ish money?  Yeah, I'd rather trade Burns.  And that has little to do with Burns.  

How do you define overpaying Burns?

The market is the market, you don't think there are some teams out there that would pay Burns? Probably have alot better record than the Panthers too for the same reasons. 

Overpaying someone is when you sign them for alot more money than any other team would ie: Marty Hurney extending Jake Delhomme after that playoff debacle.

10 minutes ago, CRA said:

Burns isn't even our best player.   Luvu is. 

That's not Burns hate.  He just isn't.  Burns is an elite pass rusher.  One of the best in the NFL at that.  But Bosa is more than that.  Which again, simply acknowledging that isn't talking down Burns. 

Luvu is not the best player.

He had a coming out party last year as full-time starter but Burns had been that man and still is.

Burns plays at a much premium position, premier Qb's, and premier pass rushers are always the first to go off draft boards.

Without Burns we don't have a pass rush of any significance and that makes life harder for Luvu, the secondary and everyone else. 

It's also funny how you want to use Bosa's previous stats to justify him being the better player, but want to discount this season's current stats. 

32 minutes ago, onmyown said:

So to be clear you’d take Burns over Bosa?

I would take either one of them on my team. 

And just like San Fran found a way to  pay their star DE. 

I would pay Burns, you don't let players like that walk, why? So you can try and hope to find another Burns in the draft?

22 minutes ago, CRA said:

Bosa had 2 sacks last night.  Only one goes in the books.  That one that was almost a safety gets logged. 

He also had a sack on that 2 pt conversation.   They don't log that in the books though.   

 

He's played 3 games

The stats are what they are. He has 1 on the season 

Burns has played 2 games with 2 sacks. 

4 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

If Burns wants Bosa money then he can’t be game planned for and taken out of a game. Atlanta clearly adjusted and their offense moved much better in the second half. If Burns’ best play is speed rushing around the QB when the other guys did collapse the pocket then he needs to do more. I shared a link where he was just guided by and Carr didn’t even have to step up. QBs step up a lot. Again, Burns didn’t dominate against NO.

Also, when did I say trade for a WR? I wanted to trade Burns last year when we got an offer that was great value. At this point, trading him is not worth it. Who knows if we’ll finally sign him.

For all that dominating Bosa is doing he has 1 sack on the season, 1 less than Burns who stands at 2. 

Just now, WhoKnows said:

One play where Luvu got the sack. Are you going to post the rest of the plays where the tackle stuffed him with no help? Even YGM will get a pressure during the game. Burns did not dominate against NO. 

Luvu doesn't get the sack if Burns doesn't move Carr off of his spot and forces him to step up in the pocket.

It's called team defense. 

No player dominates every game they play what kind of standard is that. 

That fact if the matter is Burns is a force, the Atlanta coach was interviewed by the FOX reporter and said they have to make adjustments in the 2nd half to counter Burns. 

It's good thing none of you are the real Panthers GM. "trade Burns so we can get a receiver for timid Byrce Young"

Sorry Bryce for sending strays your way, but man some of these takes are wild. 

2 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

He was a force early against Atlanta, but he wasn’t a force against NO. I watched some of the SF/Giants game and on a few series series Bosa had more of an impact than Burns had all game against NO.

https://youtube.com/shorts/q9sFjerVgfM?si=s9Kq_dZXEYuybCIq

1 hour ago, Proudiddy said:

Well, said...  Cam's projected #1 after KB went down in 2015 was fuging Jericho Corchery.  Cotchery literally was so slow, he looked like he was running in place most plays.  And people still blamed Cam for having to essentially be an entire offense.  Thank God for Ted Ginn that year, who statistically ended up being our #1 simply because he could stretch the field.  And that was a perfect comparison, because just the threat of Ginn and Cam utilizing him made that offense dangerous bc at any given time, Cam could bomb it to him or if the defense stretched themselves too far, he could just take off and run.  

We just don't have that threat with Bryce, and it isn't because of the receivers.  As I said in the other thread, our guys have beat their man over the top multiple times this year and even when Bryce attempted the pass he was WAY OFF and throws it early before the receiver has finished their move - I suspect because he's not comfortable throwing deeper passes in the first place.  And just like Cam's corps, even if you have a bunch of pedestrian WRs, if you have one Ginn, or in this case, Chark, you can threaten the defense with deep accurate passes, but Bryce is too scared and inaccurate to throw it deep.  But even that take is kind of coddling him, bc again, I've watched TMJ and Mingo beat their guys over the top and Bryce just missed them, badly.  Talent-wise, this WR group blows 2015's out of the water.  We had fuging Philly Brown getting major snaps lol.  This group is big, physical, and despite what people are saying, has athleticism.  It's how they're being utilized and it's having a guy that can't get them the ball in the right spots.

Ginn was always going to be the #1 option after KB got hurt. 

Anybody that remembered the 2013 season knew that him and Cam had a connection. That's one of the reason I knew Cam might have a special season.

The closest thing to a guy who could stretch the field for him was an aging Steve Smith. With Ginn that was going to open up things for Olsen and the running game. 

19 minutes ago, KSpan said:

How did it work out in reality? It didn't, and doesn't for other teams either. Who cares what the stats appear to say when the actual results speak way louder.

We had a horrible defense in 2020 you can't that failure on Bridgewater with Mccaffrey injured he was the only reason we were even competitive in a season most thought we were going to be 2010 bad. 

Had Robby Anderson looking like a probowler. 

1 minute ago, KSpan said:

The whole point though is that passing stats don't tell the whole story, and Bridgewater looked like that everywhere regardless of scheme. Even Brees couldn't make it work once his arm started fading in 2013 or so. It's not a vaiable NFL approach, full stop. 

Not arguing about whether the approach is successful.

My point was when Teddy pass the ball whether it was YAC or not 7.6 average it was more efficient than people were giving him credit for.

4.2 that's dinking and dunking you need to complete 3 passes on average just to get a 1st down.