grimesgoat

On 5/17/2025 at 7:20 AM, Icege said:

A franchise CB, starting RB, reliable TE2, and a top OL6 is a bad draft?

That doompill some folks seem to take every morning does some crazy work.

Ironically Keith Taylor and Phil Hoskins both have super bowl rings.

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

 

Many people spent 3 months absolutely confident that Jalon Walker would play edge here...

Many of the same people bitched and moaned that our front office leaked like a sieve, we always telegraph our picks, charlie campbell always knows our pick because we're so predictable, etc. etc.

Glad to see those guys finally STFU.

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Cam Jordan was on Good Morning Football.  A player like Cam (lifelong Saint and a great ambassador for any team--I like him a lot) could be used by the Saints to create a smokescreen.  He denied that the Saints would take a QB in the first round, claiming that it has not been done since Manning in 1971 (paraphrasing)... It seems to me, (conspiracy theory forthcoming) that bit of information would have to have been researched/premeditated/planned.  Was he attempting to scoff at the concept that the Saints would draft a QB at #10?  Remember, Carr missed 7 games last year and had a 63.something QB rating.  He was not believed to be returning in 2025.  When the Saints thought that one of the top 2 Qbs were not going to be there at #10, they did not take advantage of the void clause in his contract, the way I understand it.  That means they continued to kick the Carr contract down the road.  In 2026, Carr's cap number is $69m--nearly a quarter of the cap for a 35-year old QB they do not want.  He is to be paid a $40m salary with a $10m roster bonus. While I am not a capologist, it is interesting if they really like Shedeur. All that matters is the perception that the Saints will take him at 10.

If the Giants pass on him, and I think they likely will, Sanders could draw interest from the Raiders (I do not see it) at 6 or the Jets at 7 (more likely, but still unlikely).  The Panthers are the most likely trade partner--unless the Jets want to move back.  So who may realistically trade up for a qb?  The Colts (14), but there is no noise about them taking a QB and I do not think they have shown interest--instead, a competition between Richardson and Jones is the plan.  The Steelers (21) are in play, and the Rams are in play.  There is, however, another option for Carolina as a trade partner--The Saints.  A draft day switch for a third rounder might keep the Panthers targeting their player at 8 and add a pick in the process, suggesting they do not want to move back--but I get the impression that the Panthers are looking to move back.

 

That's a double win.  Picking up an extra 3rd and sticking them with Sanders.

If we had an extra 3rd, I would not be so stressed about getting an edge in the first.  Get Warren, then pick up an edge, wr, and s in rounds 2-3.  Depth t, cb, dt, and lb in rounds 4-5 and we're ready to roll.

13 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Explain to me why nobody is talking about the Colts taking a QB---am I missing something?  Anthony Richardson, Daniel Jones, and QB/WR Jason Bean.  If I am the Colts, I get a QB and if Sanders drops past 7 or so, the decision just got easier.

If they move up for anyone, I bet its Warren.  Jones and Warren could be something.

17 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I think some of our visits suggest that is the plan if they can get the deal.

What would it take for us to move back to 9 and let NO get their guy and prevent someone like Indy from jumping them?  Would you do it for a 3rd or insist on the 2nd?  

We could move back to 10, 11, or 12 (Chi, SF, or DAL) and get an extra 3rd. 

The only team I could see willing to give up a 2nd is Seattle, who have 50 and 52.  That would drop us back to 18.  Still lots of really good guys back there and that extra 2nd would be sweet.

16 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

I think you may have the first 3 positions correct but in the wrong order. My crystal ball says it will be LB, Edge, WR in that order.

campbell?

I like him.

1 hour ago, UAPanther said:

Interesting. Gotta feeling it’ll be Walker in the 1st, Noel in the 2nd.

I think you are right.

1. E Walker

2. WR Noel

3. OT (MBow or Trapilo)

4. S (Sanker)

4. CB (Riley or Strong)

A solid draft with 1 potential superstar in Walker.  All of these should be starters/solid contributors by 2026.

I think they use their 5ths to move around a bit to get their targets.  They walk away with the players above plus a few other late round selections at TE, LB, RB and DT.

If we are stuck at 8, I'd go with Warren or Walker.  Closest to best available that fits our needs.

In my mind, we need future starters at Edge, OT, S, and WR/TE from this draft.  So we need to find another second rounder.  Seattle and Chicago each have two.  I'm targeting Seattle with 50 and  52.

So my preference would be to move back to 18 and pick up 52 and 92.  At 18, the following would probably still be around - Emmanwori, Mykel Williams, Pearce, Starks, Grant, Barron, Eziuraku.  Lots to choose from.

52 and 57 are great spots to grab starter-level players at S, Edge, or WR/TE.  74 should be a good spot for our future RT.  92 can be used to move up a bit if necessary. 

Use the rest of the draft for depth/backups - CB, LB, DT, TE, RB. 

3 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

using 4 picks for a player thats losing 2 years from the jump is an absolutely horrific mistake

I think it was 3 picks.  We gave away 3 but got one back.  According to Linville, the 2 extra 5ths were just dart throws anyway.

I, for one, was ok spending a high pick on RB.  It was a shallow draft at RB and we needed a good one.  At the time, Chubba was ok (3.8 ypc) with questionable hands.  Sanders was not good.  So we drafted the consensus best RB in  a shallow class (i.e. not as many good choices as usual).

This is a deep RB draft.  My understanding is that means there are a lot of good NFL-level RBs.  But has the need for RBs increased significantly from last year to this year league-wide?  If not, it makes sense some some really good RBs will fall and may not even get drafted.  Its just supply and demand.  

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

why would you do that?  We have the picks to get a really good one, why not draft one and have him locked for 4 years under a cheap contract?  I would feel better about taking a top 6-10 ish rb in the 4rth or 5th then some top 15-20 corner prospect.

If the choice is a top 15-20 corner and a RB that will be either 3rd or 4th on the depth chart, my choice is CB.  We have 2 good corners and 3 average backups.  The CB will get reps and play special teams.

I felt differently before we signed Dowdle.  After the draft, we should be able to grab someone to field punts and kickoffs and with some upside for the practice squad.

7 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

it would be insanity to not take one

Just a thought, but if RB is super deep - there should be some that fall out.  Why not just wait until after the draft and grab one?

Use the draft to grab the depth where there is a more limited supply.

I like the guys Morgan picked.

And his first draft isn't over.  He's still got the 2025 second rounder he  picked up last year.

I'd rather draft Warren.  He can play TE, FB, and Wildcat QB.

I think First Round goes something like

1. Ten - Ward or Carter

2. Cle - Ward or Carter

3. NYG - Hunter

4. NE - Tet

5. Jax - Graham

6. LV - Jeanty

7. NYJ - Sanders or Edge

8. Car- Got to be Warren.  I'd love to trade back because 10. Chi, 11. SF, and 13. MIA all need OTs, but if we drop below NO at 9, they will snag Warren.

I don't think defense is a must-have at 8.  There are other ways to help a defense besides adding a rotational edge.

Panthers want to run.  They want to burn clock and sustain drives.  Keep the defense fresh.  One way to do this is to run 2 TE sets.  Adding a guy like Warren could be the key.  We could run more.  He's a great pass-catcher and safety valve to keep drives going. And he can run wildcat near the goal line.

If Graham is gone (and he is not likely to get past Jacksonville at 5), then my dream scenario would be to move back a few spots to 11 (SF) and swap 2nds with them and pick up an extra 5th.  SF (11), Chi (10), and MIA (13) all need OTs and we will be in prime position for a move back for the best offer.  Take the SF 2nd (#43) and grab Ezeiruaku.  Then go DT in the third and S in the 4th. Grab Stuttsmann with the 5th you just picked up and all of a sudden your defense is vastly improved (on paper).

5 hours ago, jfra78 said:

this is the way.

The huddle consensus is to let everyone know who they wanted after a year or two.

I'd offer Keenan Allen a 2 year, $15 million contract to finish his career right here in his home state.  He is smart, reliable, and runs great routes.  I think he would be perfect for Bryce and would not break the bank.  Then we can use the draft for mostly defense (at least rounds 1-3).

3 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

So don't look at it as hoping your team will lose, look at it as hoping your team can add an elite difference maker in the draft, because that's what you're really hoping for and in reality, that's what you're rooting for.

Would people have rather won an extra couple of games back in 2010 at the expense of being in position to draft Cam?

Or how about the next year when we got Kuechly?  If we won an extra game or two that previous year, we'd have likely missed out on him in that draft too.

Again, we're not one or two players away from contending next year.  We're not already sitting in that 10ish pick range where there might not be a big difference if we fall back a couple extra picks.  If we were those things, then yes, you want the team to win to help them build upon next season.  

As I said earlier, it's like the Lions of 2 years ago, they were only a couple pieces away from having a really competitive team, they won a bunch of late games to build their momentum and turned that into an NFCCS appearance last year and are now the best team in the NFC.

But once you're sitting in that Top 5 of the draft and still have as many holes as we do, meaningless wins only hurt the franchise overall in the long term.  Winning at this point is cutting off our nose to spite our face.

I get what you are saying, but there is a mental part of the game that is difficult to measure.  If you walk out and expect to lose (because you always do), chances are pretty good you will lose.  However if you win, it builds confidence.  You learn what it takes to win and you go about doing those things.  Winning breeds winning.

If you've played competitive team sports, you understand these things.

I don't mind if a young team such as ours loses an individual game, as long as we are improving and not quitting.  And I'm not seeing anyone quit out there.

The real problem I have is the people who say things like 'typical Panthers, winning a meaningless game and messing up their draft position.  They can't even tank right'.  Those guys are losers.

2 hours ago, rayzor said:

so the rest of the season you're sitting starters. that's how you do it? 

or do you intentionally call up bad plays?

or do you pull players aside and tell them to half ass it? 

again, just trying to figure out how this tanking thing works. 

Good luck getting your answers.

My hope is that Panthers play hard and young guys get lots of reps.  Build chemistry on the line and between Bryce and receivers.  If we are underdogs and we lose, I won't lose any sleep.

But if we are favored, like this week vs. Dallas, I will be disappointed if we lose. Draft status be damned.

20 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I think this is spot on.  The difference, in my opinion, is QB.  In 2022, Jones was QB 9 and Daboll and the Giants seemed like they were back.  A decent OL, good WRs, and a solid Running game.  In 2023, the Giants had some injuries to the OL and it was terrible--worse than our OL.  WRs were terrible.  No real TE. Barkley was it.  Jones was pressured from the pocket as much as Bryce Young and Fields. This season, Jones is QB 7 in the NFL when throwing from a clean pocket; during the offseason, Shoen tried to revamp the OL like we did and instead of going after a QB in the draft, decided WR was a bigger need and drafted Nabers, hoping the OL improvement and the stud WR would make Jones better.  But they lost the running game (Barkley).  A few OL injuries here and there and a bit of underperformance, and Jones is facing new demons--nobody is afraid of Tracy or Singletary, NY's top 2 running backs--even if you include their receiving yardage--they cannot best Barkley's rushing yards alone in Philly.  All that to make 2 points:

• Jones is a top 7 QB (according to the stats) when throwing from a clean pocket.  The Panthers are 32nd in the league in the area of pressuring the passer. 
• With injuries to the OL, no TE threats to speak of (21 receptions combined), a weak running game, Daboll is on the hot seat; there is even talk of Benching Jones for Drew Lock. 

Expect Jones to have a better day vs. the Panthers than he would most other teams.  He can run (we can't get off the field on third downs).  We will have to blitz (knowing that he is deadly from a clean pocket) and that could create throwing lanes and running lanes for Jones.  I expect Jones to have a good day against us.

Having said that, considering the success of Darnold and Mayfield, Jones is only 28.  He has a big cap figure, and if the Giants decide to move on from him (remember, when he had better WRs, linemen, running game, and WRs as he did in 2022, Jones was good and got a big contract.  This might be a game where we can observe Jones to see if he might be a good fit here.  He is 6'5" and 230 and mobile.  Smart, but he tends to hold the ball too long at times (no WR open, no TEs, and no running game)--understandable.  The Panthers, however, could give him all he needs to be successful.  (I know some of you are screaming, "No! He sucks!" I think he is perfect for our system.  We need to add a WR.  Sanders needs to continue to develop and maybe we need another good TE.  The OL?  Maybe we grab a center. Not sure what is going on with Ickey.  In other words, he would be really good with a strong running game, clean pocket, and weapons.  We could trade for him (picking up a player with a big contract that the team is trying to unload is not giving up a lot), then we could trade back a bit in the draft and get a WR and Edge rusher.  His salary is about $20m after bonuses, etc. Shoen and Morgan have a relationship.  We could then draft someone like Allar, Nussmieir, Beck, Ewers, Rourke, Dart,etc. to groom behind Jones, who would have 2 years on his contract.  Just a thought.  Instead of reaching for another #1 or #2 overall rookie QB, we get an established QB who could be much better here, enabling us to move back in the draft to add a second rounder or late first. We could draft a C with the second, second round draft pick.  This is not as exciting as taking Ward or Sanders, but it might be smarter.  

Not sure I agree with all of this, but i love the out-of-the-box thinking.  Great post.

40 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Some of the moves you are talking about would also reduce the roster to under 40 players(the amount we currently have under contract with that ~$42 mil in cap space per OTC). That isn't including a QB salary(Dalton isn't on there) and when you are looking at maybe $55-60 mil in cap(if we do everything you say), it's going to be tighter than you think to sign almost 20 players, including a starting QB. 

The point being is that to have as little overall roster talent as we have, we should be looking more like the Pats, who have a projected $138 mil in cap space for 2025 with 39 players under contract. 

That's what a talent deficient roster amount of free cap SHOULD look like.

I don't think our roster is that talent deficient.  Other than Sanders and maybe Wonnum, no one looks grossly overpaid.  The Moton cap hit is bad, but that is from all the restructures.  But our line is decent and mostly intact for 2025 (other than Corbett).  We're just drafted an RB, TE, and WR that we need to develop - maybe there is some talent there?

On defense we will still have Horn, Brown, Robinson, and Clowney, who are all above average.

I think the idea is to build through the draft anyway.  Those are low-cost additions. Draft another edge in round 1 and a WR in round 2, and developing them.

I, for one, don't really care that we don't have 100m to spend because I like the organic growth path they seem to be on. If you have to spend money, put it in the trenches.  Our recent impatience has hurt us tremendously and put us in this hole.  I'm giving it a good 2 years to see what Morgan/Cannales can come up with.