grimesgoat

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Personally, I think you should draft an OL every year depending on the depth of the draft at the position.  However, when you trade away your picks, it becomes more about need.

https://themessenger.com/sports/2024-nfl-draft-strongest-weakest-position-groups

According to this source, this is a very good draft at QB, WR (9 in the top 50; 13 in the top 100), CB (no elite players, but a lot of depth--we could use one. 8 in the top 50 players; 13 in the top 100), OT (seven with top 50 grades but it drops off after that) and IOL (There are 8 solid players expected to go between picks 51 and 100). 

Terrible draft for TE, RB, Edge (good on day 1, depth is weak), S (depth) and DT (on days 2 and 3 you can find the penetrating 3 techniques, however.)

What this means: 

We will probably take a WR at #33 because the need and value will be there.  

We will probably take a CB (Horn oft injured, Jackson too.  Frankly, if teams threw on us more, our CBs would have been exposed)

I am guessing that we draft an interior offensive lineman based on our current situation.  (If Moton or Ekwonu is injured, BC would move from G to T.  So we need a G/C type more than at T type at this time, imo.)

At TE, we have Hurst, Tremble, and (from IR) RIcci, who flashed as an effective receiving TE in the past.  I do not see why Tremble is not our blocking TE, and he flashed this season as well.  We simply do not use the TEs effectively.  They can be used better to help with speed rushers and they can run more than curls and outs--they need to drag across the middle to keep the ILBs out of Bryce's face. The way the TEs were used pisses me off.  I don't want to talk about it).  Maybe we go after Noah Fant?  He would be a relatively cheap free agent with a connection to GM and coach here.  (I would guess under $8m?)

X(avier) marks the Spot:  A WR I really like the Xaviers.  Xavier Worthy for the play-action pass offense, although he is a bit slight.  He is an all-around WR who can give formation flexibility. Xavier Legette is large and fast--and he will be there on day 2.

YAC guy: (based on his history of open field running--think WR screens, reverses, etc.) is Western Kentucky's   Malachi Corley, a player who could be there around pick 101. 

Catch Radius (Mike Evans type) guy:  While not as good as Evans, Johnny Wilson is 6-7 and is projected to run under 4.5.  He could be there at pick 101.  Who needs an additional TE with Wilson on the field.

 

Tangent Finis

 

I like this very much.  It really fits our needs.  If we can pick up a late first for Burns, we can go

1. Xavier

2. CB

3. C/G

4. Corley or Wilson

If we can move back a little in the second and pick up extra late 3rd, we may be able to get both Corley and Wilson.  With our needs, we really need to take advantage of what the draft is offering.

2 hours ago, CRA said:

I got no issue with this in theory...

but I think Burns played himself out of that wish coming true.  You not only have to give up a first for him....but then have to pay him on top of that.  I think too many teams would rather just spend that 1st rounder on a DE themselves for the cheap contract and hopes of getting a more well rounded edge player. 

Respectively disagree.  Teams picking in the late 20's are not in development mode.  They will be looking for a professional someone that can put them over the hump - especially if they see their window beginning to close.  Burns paired with another stud like Hutchinson or Von Miller could be just the ticket.  Looking at Buffalo, Detroit, maybe Miami.

I'd be shocked if we can't get a late first and a 2025 second for a borderline pro-bowler Edge.

I would do the following...

Trade Burns for a late 1st.  Draft WR.  Get an Edge in the top of the 2nd. Re-sign Luvu and extend Brown.

Then fix the OL....

Switch Icky and Christiansen.  Christensen is built for LT.  Icky is built for G. Stop fighting it.

Draft a C/G at the top of the 3rd.  Give him experience at RG this year, then move him to C next year.

Draft a TE at the top of the 4th.

Re-work Moton's deal as usual to clear space but don't spend it.  Roll it over until we are better and we have enough players worth spending it on.

Bryce is starting every game next year until he gets hurt.  This is how we should prepare...

• Trade Burns for a late first and get a speedy WR that can get a little separation.
• Draft a G/C at the top of the second so there might be an actual pocket to play from.
• Draft a pass-catching TE at the top of the 3rd to have an option in the middle of the field.
• Stay away from high priced Free Agents.

We will win 4 games and have a top 5 pick regardless of what we do.  But we have to be able to evaluate our most expensive investment.  

If we are scrappy competitive underdogs and Bryce plays well, then the rebuild continues with an eye toward defense in 2025.  If Bryce continues to struggle and we're getting blown out each week, you have to think about a QB in 2025.

16 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

I picked the Ravens to win the SB.

I said we needed a #1 WR and told everyone Mingo and TMJ was not it.

Told everyone in the preseason Frank was going to be a bad HC.

 

Put some respect on my name!

I think we need to find out if Bryce is any good.  I know I'm in the minority, but I just don't think we know the answer.  Directionless back-stabbing coaching, constant injuries/changes on the offensive line, pedestrian play-calling, and sub-par WRs.  Plus the fact he was a rookie trying to catch up to a much different game.  He may never be anything special, but I'm not ready to draw that conclusion based on the mess we saw this year.  Let's fix his footwork, give him some time to get stronger, match him up with a more creative offensive coach, and see if anything is there.

Here's my to-do...

1. Trade Burns to Buffalo.  Buffalo is in win-now mode and Burns would be more helpful on the other side of Von Miller than anyone they could draft in the late 20's.  We could net a 2024 1st, 2025 2nd, and a 2024 5th and 6th.

2. Offense: Move icky inside and let BC play T.  Move on from the stench of Thomas, TMJ, Hurst, Sanders, and Chark.  If Corbett can play, keep him with Zavala and Mays as backups.  Re-sign Smith-Marsette.  Keep Thielen.  Keep Dalton.

3. Defense: Re-sign/extend Brown.  Re-sign Luvu, YGM, Hill, and Haynes.  Then hope Horn, Bell, Woods, Shaq, and Jackson can stay healthy. A difference-making edge rusher will have to wait for the 2025 draft.  This draft needs to be about the offense.

4. Free Agents: stay away! Grab whatever comp picks we can for Henderson, Chinn, Franklin, Shenault, Chark, etc.  Fill in gaps when they no longer count against comp pick formula.

5. Draft: 1 = WR.  2 = G/C. 3 = RB or TE.  4-6: LB, CB, DT, TE, etc.

2024 is going to be ugly.  We might win 4-5 games with better coaching, fewer injuries, and a little more talent around our QB, but that is probably the max. But this should allow us to determine if our high 2025 pick should be QB or Edge.   

Bottom line, I really don't care how many games we win in 2024 as long as we develop what we have, show energy and improvement, and carry over all our picks, a comp pick or two, and a large chunk of cap. 

6 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Whew boy did you open up a can of worms!  Okay, eating an elephant strategy...here I go.

#1-Trade Brian Burns for draft capital.  A 1st round this year and a 2nd next year bare minimum

#2-Extend Brown

#3- Re-sign Luvu (priority #1 FA)

#4- Other in-house FAs to re-sign REASONABLY (no particular order): Haynes, YGM, Hill, KGH, Williams

*If JJ wants to come back then we obviously re-sign him--but I doubt he does.

#5 Either move Chinn to LB or trade him before FA.

#6 Free agency:  WR (x2) a tier 1 and a tier 2, TE, OLB and CB

#7 Use that first rounder to take either a QB or WR.

#8 Draft a OLB, DL, CB, IOL and BPA

nice post.  I agree with almost everything and was just getting set to post.  Here's my to do...

1. Trade Burns for first and future second/third.

2. Extend Brown.

3. Re-sign Luvu, Hill, Franklin, Haynes, Willams.

4. Chinn, Henderson, YGM, all walk for future comp picks.  Important - let them become comp picks.  Do not try to sign a bunch of FAs.

5. Move to power running scheme.  Move icky inside with Christiansen outside.  Play action galore.

6. Draft WR in first.  We have to find some speed here.

7. Rest of draft is defense heavy - OLB in 2nd, ILB in 3rd, CB in 4th, DT and Center in 5th, TE in 6th.

When Christensen and Corbett come back, we should have a decent run-first offense that should keep us in most games.  We'll probably have lots of rookies starting on defense. Maybe we'll win 4-5 games and be eliminated in December instead of November.

In 2025, we'll have high first rounder, high picks in rounds 3-7, and at least a couple decent comp picks.  This is when we can decide if we need a different direction for QB and really start building out depth.

2 hours ago, WarPanthers89 said:

I’m all about hating on Tepper and Nicole for the dumpster fire they have created, but this entire post is reaching hard. She was just walking to prob go get some food or drinks lol. This is simply huddle drama.

You are violating the hive-mind.  You will be assimilated.

To do list...

1. Trade Burns for 1st and 2025 2nd.

2. 1st - WR (Xavier Worthy?) 2nd - OT (move Icky to G)  3rd - Center (bozeman is terrible) 4th - Best RB available.  Gotta give Bryce a chance with decent supporting cast.

In 2025, if bryce is still struggling and we are picking in top 5, gotta go QB.

Sorry to see Scot and Jon Snow leave, but don't blame them.   But I'm checking out too.  This place is not for us optimists/realists interested in constructive conversation.  

I may check in later in the season when the Panthers start putting some wins on the board to see if reason has been restored.  I expect 5-6 wins in November/December.  Until then, the impatient whiners posting and running things in here can continue to revel in their misery.

16 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

As best anyone can tell her qualifications consist of the ring on her left hand. If she had legit qualifications why wouldn't the organization tout them like they do their employees who do have legit qualifications? 

No clue.  maybe they are hiding something or maybe she values her privacy.

I generally try not to comment and draw conclusions on things I have absolutely no clue about.

16 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

She has virtually no background information available on the internet. Someone posted this earlier. Most well-qualified leaders responsible for hiring would at least have like a linkedin page lol. There is literally NOTHING out there about her education, career history, etc.

it’s very odd

So is your theory that she sat in an isolated cabin somewhere for 25 years until Tepper came along?

Maybe she was a nurse, or secretary, or flight attendant or elementary school teacher.  You know.  Something a woman can do (lol).

We know she is a woman and wasn't working for a football team so she can't possibly be able to contribute anything.

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It probably has a lot less to do with being a woman and a lot more to do with the complete lack of relative experience and obvious nepotism. 

Ultimately it all comes back to David Tepper. He's the common denominator in all this madness.

you are probably right.  what is her background?  what did she do for the 30+ years before marrying Tepper?  If the answer is "i don't know", then there is a big problem with your statement.

The irony is that almost everyone on this message board is significantly less qualified (as Nicole) to contribute to the review process. The fact Nicole is around football people all the time (learning what to look for) and met with all of these kids makes her infinitely more qualified to weigh in than anyone on this message board.  I doubt the decision makers will arrogantly dismiss another human beings thoughts and opinions, as many on this board would hope.  And I doubt she is the final decision maker on anything. 

1 minute ago, therealmjl said:

The fact that she was traveling to all of the pro days, having dinner with the prospects, and interviewing for the staff means she has some input - which is more than she should have given her background (or lack thereof). The same can be said for Tepper, but he bought the team so it's a tougher argument to make. 

Maybe her role is to sniff out emotional intelligence and other personality qualities needed for this particular job.  Maybe she has some ability to measure how fast someone processes information.  Maybe she does background on a person's ability to adapt - how coachable he is - does he learn from his mistakes or keep making the same ones over and over. Maybe other things are important like leadership.  Maybe there are other intangible considerations for selecting the face of you multi-billion dollar franchise other than can he throw the ball 60 yards.

I don't know what her expertise is and I doubt anyone on this board has a clue.  But to assume she does not have any ability to contribute because she is a woman or because she did not play football is caveman level thinking.

42 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

alright how about this.  Its not a big deal for her to work at Tepper sports.  It is however a big deal that she is given input on coach hirings, qb selections and draft day trades.  Would you agree with that statement?

How much weight do you think she has?  Do you think our draft would be any different without her around?  Do you think Reich, Fitterer, and Tepper are sitting around waiting for her input?  You cannot be this naive.  You have another agenda.

1 hour ago, UNCrules2187 said:

While I largely agree here, my only quibble is the 5 of 6 key positions accounted for bit. Accounted for in the sense we have someone there? Yes. TBD on whether or not they are the actual answers or no:

QB - rookie #1 overall pick; way too early to tell if he's a hit or not

LT - 6th overall pick, young, shows flashes, seems to have regressed/struggled more than expected so far but willing to give more time

DT - agreed, but he'll be seeking a big, big raise after this year

DE/Pass Rush - for now...if this team starts 1-5/0-6 and Burns still doesn't have a new deal, I wouldn't be surprised to see him dealt

CB - can't agree here; when healthy, Jaycee is a lockdown corner, but so far the guy will have missed at least 22 of a possible 39 games (14 in '21, 4 in '22, minimum 4 in '23 and that's giving him credit for the Atlanta game where he got hurt before halftime and it will be more than that given he's probably not coming back until the 2nd half of the year at best). Until he can be shown to be relied upon for at least 80% of a season, not sure you can say we have CB locked down

A lot can happen - but you can see they consciously went after the key positions in the first rounds in each of the last several drafts. 

I agree Horn is a huge question mark.  A shutdown corner is so important in today's nfl.  Locking up half the field makes defending so much easier.  I don't believe in someone being injury-prone.  Football is a violent game and guys are always getting hurt. Just tough luck for the kid in my opinion.  Maybe the odds will even out and he'll come back and play 8 years without missing a game. He certainly has the talent/tools for a long career. Hopefully he recovers quickly.

No one has tried to address the initial question.  Just more whining.  Here are some possible reasons to be optimistic...

• We cleaned out the stench of the prior coaching regime.  The current group has a history of producing in the NFL.
• We have a brand new QB that may develop into a franchise QB.  I'm willing to give him more than 2 games before passing judgment.  I guess I'm the only one that did not consider him a finished product after 2 years of college.
• 5 of the top 6 most important positions in football are all accounted for - QB, LT, DT, DE, CB, (WR).  Its a really good group when all are healthy and playing (assuming QB develops into something). We are missing a #1 WR however I am willing to wait and see if Mingo can develop into that guy.  I believe that is the expectation.  He is physically that guy and has been compared to AJ Brown.  Maybe we can reassess after a few more games, but to give up now seems incredibly short-sighted.
• With key positions accounted for, we can use our draft picks on complimentary pieces.  Fortunately we still have picks 2,3,4,5,5,6 available for a CB, G, RB, and LB.  These are the rounds to get these guys.
• We have been hamstrung with huge dead money, restricting our options in free agency.  Dead money ranks since 2021 were 30th, 23rd, and 29th highest.  We are dedicating 42m of our cap to 3 guys who are not playing for us (DJ, CMC, Chosen).  Situation should be much improved next year.
• The 3 teams in our division are nothing special.  Carr, Ridder, and Baker do not frighten me.  I believe Young will eventually be better.

While the last 5 years have been rough for us fans, this is what a slow rebuild looks like.  3 years ago, we had a stinky coach, no lockdown corner, no franchise LT, no hope at WR, an all-pro expensive RB that was always hurt, and 2 very young and developing D-linemen.  We are in significantly better shape today.

Since no one has attempted to identify what Fitterer has done right after 9 pages, I'll throw a couple of things out there.  

1. The draft picks from 2021 and 2022 were "developed" with sub-par coaching.  No draftee is a completed work but a work in process.  Let's see what a better set of coaches can mold with this clay.

2. Way too early to judge 2023 draftees.  3 are already starting and the other 2 may develop into something.

3. He is drafting studs in the first round.  We've seen what Horn and Icky can do and Young was the consensus best QB out there.  Blaming Fitterer for Horn's injuries is lame - he was never hurt in college.

4. Free agency - He has been hamstrung with huge dead cap hits since he got here.  54m in 2021 (3rd highest), 52m in 2022 (7th highest), and 55m in 2023 (5th highest).  Hard to make a lot of splash signings with 30% of the cap not available.

While he has had a few stinkers (elf and erving), he has signed some solid players that have played well: Luvu, Abdullah, Reddick, Foreman, Corbett, Woods, Hekker, Bozeman, Ionidas.  Jury is out on this year's crop but everyone seemed to like Bell, Tuttle, Dalton, Sanders, Hurst, Williams, Thielen, Chark, Grugier-Hill, Rowe, Byrd, and extending Bozeman.  Maybe we should wait for more than 1 game before declaring the 2023 free agent class a disaster.

It goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway) I think he significantly upgraded the coaching staff around here.  He'll live and die with how successful they are.

5. Trades - obviously a mixed bag here.  He got good value for CMC.  He also got a 7th for Little, and 6th for Bridgewater, a 5th for Daley, and 6th and 7th for Anderson, 7th for Gonzalez - all players that most on here were just wanting to cut.  Gilmore for a 6th and Mayfield for a 5th were good dice rolls.  Jury is out on Shenault and Smith-Marsette trades.  Darnold and Corral were bad values, but I suspect Mr. Scot is right that these moves were probably driven by Rhule.

6. Finally the trade that wasn't.  Trading your best defensive player for a couple of future firsts that looked to be in the 20's did not seem like good value to Fitt.  I wanted him to pull the trigger, but I certainly understand why he didn't.  I'm ok with a fair contract - a bird in the hand etc...

6 minutes ago, Santee_Panther said:

So we sit at 56. At least three cuts to go.

We have 7 WRs with the new guy from KC coming in. Derek Wright iffy?

5TEs (if you can’t FB Ricci as a TE). Hurst, Thomas and Tremble appear safe. Sullivan out?

DLine- set with Tuttle, Brown, DeShaun Williams and likely Stallworth. No clue on Thurman and Ray.

QB- keep three?!??

my guessws

Offense: cut Sullivan.  If they find some OL help, they move TMJ to PUP.  I think that is why they traded for WR.

Defense: Cut Ray, Haynes to PUP.  If they can find a vet CB, they may swap him with Robinson and Robinson to practice squad.

18 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

Don’t like seeing shoulder injuries on defenders. Short was never the same and we wasted a ton of money.

He also clearly hasn’t been as effective the last few years compared to his earlier years. There’s a reason the Falcons let him go at 27 and Cleveland didn’t try to resign him at 28. He’s not old so hopefully this is a prove it contract for him to show he still has it for one more extension.

I don't know about Atlanta, but it looks like Cleveland let him go because he was due to make 13 mil.  If he cost 3 mil and they let him go, I'd be a little worried.

Assuming he's no more then 3-5 mil with nothing guaranteed, I believe we are safe.

14 hours ago, Jmac said:

Most of the stuff I read on line says that we will be a third tier team (at best). I know it's impossible to know at this point, but just looking over the roster at this point. Are they right?

Are you expecting a wild card or .500 team or bottom dweller.

What's the gut feeling on here...

I can't be upset about being tier 3 because I don't know how many tiers there are.  3, 5, 30?  If there are 30 tiers, I'm feeling pretty good.

Worse case: 7-10.  Best case 11-6.  Likely: 9-8.  I'll take it.  

Young's second year should be the start of a long period of good times and inflated expectations.

If Mayer or Porter somehow drop to 39, I'm grabbing one.  Or Avila - probably the best G in the draft.  Too much talent to pass on.

Otherwise I try to move back 8-10 spots because what we need (CB/Edge) is pretty deep.  I think one of Ojulari, Hall, Sanders, or White will still be there around 50.  Any would be great.  My favorite is Sanders.

Then with the extra draft capital plus 93, you could probably get back to around 72-76, which is a good place to grab a corner.

I think Zavala lasts to our 4th.

Every teams' top 45 players are different.  If pick 39 rolls around and there are still 8-10 guys left, I hope he moves back a little.

A draft class of 6 would be ideal considering who is already on the roster this year. 

The key is don't fall in love with one particular guy.  Trade back in the second enough to get a 2024 3rd.

Predictions:

1. QB (Young)

37-45. LB/Edge.  Hopefully a small trade back and pick up an extra 5th (GB and NE are options). Ojulari, Sanders, McDonald, Campbell (if they believe Luvu can move outside), Herbig, Hall, etc.  

93. CB.  Preferences are Brents, Mitchell, Rush.  May have to move up a little here.

114. G Zavala, Wypler, etc.

116-117. DL if we trade back in second. Harrison, Carter, Young could all be there.

132. RB (Evans, Miller)

145. WR/TE