grimesgoat

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Could be, but if you add up all the O-linemen, that would be keeping one-dimensional guards over Erving that can play multiple positions, namely LT.  Granted he's not great at any of them, but Jordan, Brown and Horton over him?  Eh, I don't see it.  Not unless it's purely for salary cap room.

BC and Mays are your backup tackles.  Bozeman/Elf and Mays are the primary backups.  Jordan and Daley are your backup guards that (hopefully) will never play.  Teck is decent and is a Rhule guy.

Brown is toast.

Haven't really watched Horton, but doesn't seem special.

I think the final group is Ickey, BC, Elf, Corbett, Moton, Bozeman, Mayes, Daley, Tecklenburg.  Erving is odd man out.

58 minutes ago, t96 said:

TMJ has struggled but he's not getting cut.

WR locks: DJ, Robbie, Shi, TMJ.

Likely: Higgins (chemistry with Baker is there and he's had a solid camp, but I don't think he's 100% a lock).

That's 5. We probably keep 6 in which case Zylstra, Kirkwood and Saunders are fighting for the last spot. Wright has looked pretty good but based on rep counts he's headed to the PS. I think Kirkwood nabs the last spot, although Zylstra is a good bet too. Saunders hasn't done much of late and is probably going back to the PS. 

IMO, I think Zylstra is a lock.  He's the only one of the 3 with a guaranteed salary.  If we cut him, we still eat almost 1m in dead money.

Saunders, Kirkwood, and Wright are battling for a possible roster spot, but more likely a practice squad spot.

1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

He can play multiple positions, which is key and one other major reason is this:

That is the 6th highest cap figure on the entire team.  Like Darnold, it makes more sense to keep him as backup than cut him.

Yea, I understand the salary ramifications.  But he really isn't very good, and they can save 2m.  With so many multi-positional players such as BC, Mays, Bozeman, Elf, etc, his flexibility really isn't as big a selling point.  Unless he is some sort of important leader in the locker room, I think he's gone.  

I wondered why they re-configured Elflein's compensation and not Erving's.  I think the reason is barring injury, he will be cut.   

11 hours ago, 45catfan said:

If we only keep two QBs, then perhaps we will keep either an extra WR or TE.  Zlystra will find a spot.  Kirkwood possibly.  Other than that, there are some guys that may land on the practice squad.

Slightly off subject, but let's go over to the OL.  The first 8 are locks...but we usually keep 9 or 10.  Who do you got?  I mean, between Daley, Jordan, Brown, Pleasants, Horton and Tecklenburg, I would rather not keep any of them.  I'd prefer to cut all of these guys and search the waiver wire for another guy or two.  If forced to keep one, I guess Daley would stick around.

Locks: Ickey, Moton, Bozeman, Corbett, BC, Elflein, Erving, Mays.  Yes, Mays is a lock. 

I don't think Erving is a lock.  With Mays and BC versatility, I think Erving is out.  Tecklenburg, Jordan, and possibly a waiver wire pickup will round out your other locks.

14 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's not like there isn't a poo ton of film of Darnold sucking at QB in the NFL out there. He's not some unknown variable.

While I agree, there is film of Sam sucking, there is also film of Sam doing well.  While he has not proven he can be a consistent winner over a full season, he has had flashes of pretty good QB play.  I think he'll have a fairly long career as a back-up/spot starter starting this year.

Bottom line - he is not worthless.  We just need to extract what we can and move along.

Rams don't have a lot of cap space, but could eat 5m of the 20m owed Sam.

They are in win now mode.  Every game could be the difference in a wild card spot vs. home field.  Gotta believe Darnold is far more likely to come off the bench and win a game or two than some dude named Woolford.

Rams also have a lot of late round picks and a number of likely comp picks.  Take a 6th and $5m for Sam and call it a day.

I don't get the gloom and doom on here. It's a long season and anything can happen.

We have 9 home games.  All home games are winnable.

We have Giants, Saints, Atl, Sea on the road.  We should compete in all.

We are not the only team that gets injured.  What if Stafford, Burrow, Jackson, or Brady get dinged up and have to miss some time.  Suddenly the Rams, Bengals, Ravens, and Bucs look vulnerable.

5 of our first 7 are home games.  If we are 4-3 or 5-2, maybe guys get confident.  Momentum ensues.  We upset some teams.  Who knows?  We came out of nowhere in 2015.  Maybe it happens again.

We have a competitive team.  We should be able to hang around in most if not all games.  Way too early to throw in the towel.

21 hours ago, Zod said:

Decent QB. Improved OL. Healthy CMC (for now).

 

Could the Panthers be watchable and actually win some games?

If you are worried you are becoming optimistic, you have definitely come to the right place.

1 hour ago, trueblade said:

So we go into the 2023 draft with no 3rd and no 4th? It's like we learned nothing from last draft. 

we get a fourth.

2 minutes ago, PantherPhann89 said:

I agree that the odds of us going to the Superbowl are a tad short of possible, but I don't agree with bringing Mayfield or any QB in to replace our starting QB with very little, if any, upside. A significant upside yes, making a lateral QB move, to me, is pointless...

I think Mayfield helps sell Jerseys and maybe a few more tickets in 2022, but I agree, it is unlikely to translate into a significant difference in the win column. 

Remember, this is a business though.  Generating revenue is key.  Winning is secondary.

8 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

This is concerning within itself.  If that is true then it appears that we were the only team to have a grade higher than a 3rd, if even that high on him.  First round grade my ass.

Doesn't bother me much.  Most teams simply did not need a QB.  For example, he may have been graded as a 2nd round talent by GB, but no way they pick a QB.

I was a little surprised WA and TB passed on him in the 3rd, but glad we got him.

Most mocks had him in the late first, second round range, so I think at worst he'll be a solid backup.

Anderson and Darnold for Mayfield and a 2023 4th.

Everyone gets a new start.  We save 2m this year on Anderson and 12m next year (although there will be some dead money involved).

Corral has a chance to learn the ropes and maybe get a few starts at year-end.  Who knows, maybe Mayfield turns into a comp pick for us if he plays well this year.

Cleveland gets a playable QB to back up Brissett/Watson for the same amount of money Baker was going to cost sitting on the bench, while getting rid of a locker room distraction.  They also get Anderson to add to a very thin WR room.  They have 8 picks next year including 2 4ths and 2 5ths, so the draft pick will not hurt (but will be pretty important for us, given we are already down a 3rd).

46 minutes ago, BrianS said:

It's all this void year garbage we keep adding.  We had the chance to take our lumps with those @(*&$ contracts the last two years and kept kicking the can down the road.  Now it's catching up.

I think Ionidas is the only player with void money next year (around 4 m).

Meanwhile we'll probably roll over 15m. 

We can cut Anderson next year and clear 12m.

Burns will be extended so his 16m. hit will probably end up being 4-5m.

DJ's base salary of 20m can be converted to bonus and save around 15m.

Cutting Elflein next year saves just under 5m.

We don't know how high the cap will go up next year.

And that's all without touching Shaq, CMC, or Moton.

We'll be ok.

6 hours ago, NAS said:

I wonder how much of this is because 1st round  QBs get more opportunities because they are 1st rounders. If Darnold was drafted in the third round, he would be out of the league already.  Third rounders get one chance to shoot their shot and may not get another chance. That’s why Corral shouldn’t be rushed into starting unless he pulls a Russell Wilson, who came out of nowhere because Seattle had no intentions of starting him that year. Let him develop and ensure he knows the system before you find out if he can be the guy.

I think this is a really good point.

If you have a first rounder, he's the de facto starter.  You have so  much invested in him.  He will get the first team reps and the team will be built around his particular skill set.

The 3rd/4th rounder may not get these benefits unless something dramatic happens.

I believe cream eventually rises to the top, but there is no doubt the first round gets the benefit of the doubt and a longer leash based on what has been invested.

Kurt Warner is a great example.  Undrafted.  Played arena league 3-4 years.  Played a year in Europe.  Finally signed by Rams where he was 3rd string for 1998.

Unprotected in the 1999 expansion draft.

Finally got his chance when their starter got hurt in the preseason in 1999 and he never looked back - having a career worthy of a first rounder.

Point is - very little investment = fewer opportunities.

4 hours ago, frankw said:

There is no need to be delusional about this. The facts are there for anyone who seeks the information.

 

It’s just entertainment. 
 

1 hour ago, glenwo2 said:

Sam Delusional would have to :

 

1.) Stop having happy feet

2.) Stop overthrowing his receivers

3.) Stop underthrowing his receivers

4.) Stop throwing at his first read for a short gain while ignoring his next one who was wide open for a big play

5.) Stop struggling with a CLEAN POCKET.

6.) See 1,2,3, 4, & 5.

 

It's a tall task for Sam Delusional. 

Yeah, I get it.

I've posted this before, but in the second half of 2019, Darnold went 6-2 with 61% passing and just under 2000 yards.  His TD-to-Int ratio was 13-4.

That guy was pretty good.  If he shows up again, we might have a puncher's chance.

I don't believe he's a long-term solution, but I think he's better than what we saw in the second half of 2021.

41 minutes ago, gofightwin said:

No one is thinking Foles or Fitzpatrick are taking us to the promise land.  But would you rather a rookie learn the ropes from a QB that has never won at the NFL level, never been on a winning team (Darnold), or from a guy that led his team to a Super Bowl and has a winning record (Foles) or from a 17 year veteran and probably the smartest man in the NFL (Fitzpatrick)?  

I don't think it will make a bit of difference to Corral's development if he shares the QB room with Darnold vs. some other mediocre QB for a year.

There are so many ways to learn - There is a QB coach. There is film. There is the playbook. There are practices.  There are the games.  

Just what do you imagine he's going to learn from Fitz (career record 59-87, 1 winning season in which he started half his team's games) and Foles (29-27, a journeyman who has 56 starts in 10 years) that he wont learn from Darnold and the sources listed above.

Why would we piss away 18m and then pay some scrub 2-3 million more for some sort of magical tutelage?

The best play is to try to rehabilitate Darnold. Let him take the beating as the OL learns to play together.  Highlight his mistakes in film study.  And if he's decent, maybe he nets a comp pick next year.

A number of folks act like they really want to win something this year.  We're just not ready.

The best we can do is keep/start Darnold.  Let the OL gel.  Replace Darnold with Corral around mid-year.  Win 6-7 games total.  Secure that top 10 again.  And grab a stud WR in the draft.

Corral will learn from Darnold (mistakes and all), his coaches, seeing the game up close, reps in practice, and eventually on-the-field.  The thought of bringing in some retread for Corral to "learn from" is just crazy talk.

I think we have too good of a team to just tank out of the gate with Corral.

We'll see both of these guys start at some point this season.  Darnold will start games 1 and 2.  He will continue to start until he gets hurt or we are 2 games under .500.  If some miracle happens and we start off with a winning record early, the hook will change to a 2-game losing streak.

Bottom line, Sam gives us an outside chance to make the playoffs.  Once that ship has sailed, he gets hurt, or he simply loses focus, we'll look to get some experience for the kid.  My guess, Corral starts game 5.  Then he'll eventually get hurt too and Sam will be back out there.

Hopefully he gets at least 6 starts in order to get a feel for his leadership and developmental skills against NFL competition (command of huddle, reading defenses, minimizing turnovers, etc.).  This will tell us if we need to draft a QB or use the draft to get him some weapons. 

Should be an entertaining season with lots of drama.

3 hours ago, CPcavedweller said:

I told you all that Willis was more than overrated. I said that he was probably a 4th round talent being hyped beyond recognition based on the easy competition he feasted on. In general, I'm fine taking G5 QB's but they better perform when they play the big guys. Malik Willis was not that guy. He absolutely crumbled against both Ole Miss and Louisiana this past season and was one of the worst QB's when under pressure in all of college football, by passer rating.

We dodged a bullet. We got a guy that is, in a way, reminiscent of Drew Brees and his quick release and short to intermediate accuracy. His mobility is similar to Darnold but hopefully his head isn't filled with ghosts because our offensive line is about to finally allow us to possibly make a playoff run this season. 

I still want Grayson McCall in 2023. He is going to be a stud, BOOOOOK IT.

Just now, CRA said:

my bad.  you are right.  I had the contract messed up in my head.  

in 2023, his cap hit currently is 21 million.  So they will 100% have to do something with Robby and his contract prior to 2023. 

Cutting post June also creates 10 million in cap space to use.   We drafted TMJ.   Put him out there.  I'm a firm believer in repping the guys you drafted.   Either TMJ can fill the void or he can't.  If he can't you just roleplay it by committee. 

and I think they could use some of that money to go get a real WR to insert into the slot.  That would help our QBs.   That was a big difference in our offense in 2021 from 2020.  The slot. 

Definitely on board for moving him after this coming season. Right now his trade value is as low as it can be.

If we can trade him next year, we'll still have to eat 9m dead but will free up 12m.  If he manages 800+ yards and 6-7 TDs, there are probably teams out there willing to trade for him.  Given his salary would only be 9m (and he'll only be 29), we may be able get at least a 5th back.

Needs to have a much better year this year with way fewer drops.

48 minutes ago, CRA said:

Anderson had the 15th largest cap hit by a NFL WR last year

Anderson was ranked 83rd in recieving yards

Robby is a lameduck too.  This is his last year.  Why wouldn't you trade him for a pick and create 10 million in cap space? 

I'm confused.  He's signed through 2023.  Trading or cutting him will cost an extra 10m this year and we'd still need to find someone and pay them to start opposite DJ.  Why would we do that?

1 hour ago, WOW!! said:

The hate is great for Darnold.. I get it.. But it's stupid to cut him now.. We are paying him to much to not give him a shot to compete..

I don’t get it. I’ve never understood the hate. He was traded here, thrown out there behind a poo line, with a relative child as the offensive coordinator. 
 

 He did his best. was always professional. Always accepted blame and never threw his teammates under the bus. 
 

he didn’t negotiate his salary.  Its based on the rookie pay scale. He didn’t pick up his 5th year option, the panthers did that. 
 

why people hate this human being that they have never met and know nothing about is a mystery to me. 
 

if he does not perform this year, he will not be given a new contract from the panthers. He will pack his bags and move on without a bad word. 

Some of you guys act like he is some cancerous douche. I don’t get it. 

45 minutes ago, KeepPounding5859 said:

Everyone who talks about trading Robbie, DJM, CMC, or anyone else that has just restructured their contracts had NO CLUE how the salary cap works.  When we decided to re work Robbie's contract we basically guaranteed his spot for this year and possible next.  Trading him or cutting him in 2023 would cost 19.8 million before June 1st. With a negative cap savings of 9 million.  Trading DJM would result in a negative cap hit of nearly 14 million and a dead cap charge of 19 million.  CMC trade would be 26million in dead cap and a 2022 negative charge of 17 million.  I'm a teacher, not an accountant, but I don't think that's good business.

Baker, Jimmy, or a trade for Minshew are the only real options unless one of these QB's falls into the third round or if we feel that we can surrender picks from next year.  I say, trade #137 for Minshew, give him a 1 year try out.  If that doesn't work, a 6th and Cleveland paying 50% of Baker's salary will suffice.  Jimmy G is more than likely going to get cut if a trade doesn't materialize, however with his health eating into his time before training camps, no one is giving up assets for him.  SF can save 26 million by cutting him and roll that savings over to next season.

I respectfully disagree. 

Our cap already includes 10m for Anderson.  And yes, trading Anderson will cost an extra 8m in cap.  But remember, we have 30m in cap right now.  We can eat the extra.

I think we can get a 2nd rounder from GB for Anderson.  GB is ready to win now, but their WRs are mediocre at best.  Believe it or not, Anderson's numbers in 2021 are better than any WR on GB right now, and that is with Darnold as QB in our joke of an offense.  GB is getting ready to trot our Lazard, Watkins, and Cobb.  There are few healthy free agent WRs left and no one in the draft ready to contribute this year.

I think GB would definitely be interested in a speedy vet WR, in his prime.  The salary for GB will only be around 1m.  And I think we can agree, Rogers should be able to get more out of Anderson than Darnold managed.

GB has 2 second rounders, a third, and 2 4th rounders.  We should be able to get at least the second second rounder for Anderson.

1 minute ago, Jmac said:

If we trade him before June 1st, we would have a huge cap hit. Since we restructured him that would be the consequence. I'm not a cap guru, but it appears to be along the lines of 17 million. If this is false please say so.

If true, how the fug do you recoup anything at all by trading him and eating that $$$?

If I'm not mistaken, we are already eating 10m of it.  That's his cap hit for this year on the Panthers' roster.

If he leaves, we're out an extra 8m. or so. 

Question is, would you pay 8m. to get a 2nd rounder?