AU-panther

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

IMO, just taken too early for a guy I view as a rotational/backup caliber player. Honestly don't hate the player at all, just think it's a bad pick because it is an overdraft.

Who would you have preferred? 

10 minutes ago, Basbear said:

PFF loved him too!!

PFF has loved every pick.

PFF had tmac as the 4th overall player

Nic was 29

Prince was 50

And where did they have Trevor ranked ?

8 minutes ago, Basbear said:

They are using PFF.

 

PFF had him as the best run defender safety..

Then why did they draft Trevor where they did? 

1 hour ago, Icege said:

Some similar trades that have taken place:

• 2019 - PIT trades #20, #52, and a 2020 third-round pick to DEN for #10 to select Devin Bush, LB, Michigan
• 2021 - CHI trades #20, 2022 first-rounder, 2021 fifth-rounder, and a 2022 fourth-rounder to NYG for #11 to select Justin Fields, QB, Ohio State
• 2022 - NO trades #18, #101, #237, 2023 first-round pick, and 2024 second-round pick to PHI for #16, #19, and #194. They then traded #16, #98, and #120 to WAS to move up to #11 and select Chris Olave, WR, Ohio State (WAS took Jahan Dotson, WR, Penn State at #16)

Sorry, thought I was responding to someone else…

17 hours ago, Basbear said:

 

"type" of haul.

I think there's a 1st, 2-3rd this year and future 1st 2-3rd. That's the BY package minus DJ Moore. 

If Steelers believe in either dart or Sanders, it would be worth it for them. They always draft in the 20s and sorta stuck in 10 win playoff 1st round playoff exit zone... No QB and they just might as well go all-in after the DK trade. 

FYI George Pickens is heavily rumored to be traded.... it worked out Soo well for the Panthers the last WR trade...

won't be that much.  Huge difference between trading to 1 than 8.

21 to 8 is about 600 points.

9 to 1 is about 1650.

16 hours ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

Panthers GM Dan Morgan said Georgia LB Jalon Walker would be a 3-4 linebacker in Carolina’s system.

While Morgan also spent the press conference telling interested teams the Panthers would be willing to move down, it was a little more telling that he spoke about the Georgia LB prospect in such finished terms. He didn’t do so at the combine. The Panthers have widely been perceived as interested in drafting a defender at No. 8 overall and Walker would be a logical fit for them.

What happens if our defense is terrible again and we fire our DC and the next one runs a 4-3?  Does he have the same value then?  Would you still be happy with spending a top 10 pick on him?

It's an odd draft, going defense seems logical.  Walker makes sense from a value/grade perspective but there seems to be some interest in the bigger edges in the draft.  

Problem with the bigger edges is their tape/production might not be top-10 to some people.  

Really feels like we would like to trade down but doesn't really feel like a draft where a lot of teams want to trade up, unless one of the QBs spark some movement.

Does Walker's size scare anyone else?

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I mean, it's fine to bank on youth but it can't outweigh who you are as a prospect. I don't look at a guy and say, "Oh I have an extra two years to develop this guy" on a team that needs a ton of help at every position. If I were an elite team with depth to spare, hey, why not? But those teams also draft in the range I think he should be in, middle of the 1st to end of the 1st.

That's fine but I think you are going to struggle pretty heavily to find a guy that WASN'T arguably playing out of position his entire college career that was as unproductive in college as Stewart has been that panned out in the NFL. ESPECIALLY as a top 10 pick. 

Now, if we are talking a top of the 4th round pick? You run to the podium with that Stewart card and don't look back.

by unproductive you mean "sack total", because by the tape he was disruptive and his pressures actually led the team, which was surprising by having limited pass rush sets.

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

To be fair this is the same thing the people that were pounding the table for paying Burns a huge sum of money said. How has that worked out so far?

yep, because one example proves a fact wrong.

On 4/4/2025 at 11:45 AM, LinvilleGorge said:

BINGO

Stewart and his "UDFA just hoping he can land a camp invite" production being talked about as a potential top 10 pick is fuging wild. I know this draft is being perceived as light on top shelf talent but c'mon...

"UDFA" is a bit of a stretch.

I agree the sack numbers aren't what you would like but they don't tell the entire picture.

His run defense was great.  

According to this article he actually led the team in pressures, which are actually sometimes a better indicator of future sacks than sacks are.  The guy that gets the sack often isn't the guy that caused the sack.  Thats the difference between scouting by watching film and box score scouting.

Also, the fact he led the team in pressures is somewhat surprising because his true pass sets were actually limited.

I'm not saying he is deserving of a top 10 pick but this idea that his tape is indictive of a UDFA or even 4th or 5th rounder is absurd.

On 4/4/2025 at 8:07 AM, kungfoodude said:

Mykel seems like a fairly low ceiling and VERY low floor guy. Outside of the measureables, he very much looks like he is on the Shemar Stewart end of the scale. 

I would be very disappointed to see him taken at 8. Late 1st, early 2nd I can understand.

curious to why you think he has a very low ceiling?

Because of positional value and/or need I think there is a good chance you can take DT, TE, OL, and RB off the table.  

My best guess at this point is one of the edges, maybe WR.

If we trade down, I think it will be because we have several edges graded fairly close to each other.

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

 

That is ridiculous on several levels. First of all you have to spend 90% of your cap space every year so the idea you can just not spend it every year is against the CBA. Secondly your job is to assemble the best team you can for the fans players and team. Not to save money for the owner.  Third many players who are considered great underperform while others like Luvu and Jackson have overperformed. What about a  great player like Derek Brown who was injured and missed all of last year. Was he a waste of money?? Sure pay DK a fools ransom and hope he stays healthy. He didn't even get 1000 yards last year which averages out to 60 yards a game or play all 16 games.  And lets be real, Jones and Watson aren't  great but they aren't being paid that much either. Real glad you aren't the GM.

That’s not how the minimum spending rule works.

it’s a 4 year total, so they can in fact roll it over.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/how-does-nfl-salary-cap-work/

13 hours ago, Panthero said:

Yes, but positional value matters when you include FA and the draft. If I need to bring in a free agent do I want to pay a high end edge or safety? Obviously an impact safety is much cheaper. Buidling your OT, DE, CB, WR, and QB through the draft makes the most sense. Fill in the rest with FA - safety, te, lb, rb, oc, etc. 

So unless a safety is rated far higher, you always default to the premium positions as your high level draft picks. 

I never said anything about need or positional value, I was pointing out that comparing players based on their positional rank is pointless and that isn’t how teams look at it, they look at grade. 

5 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

That’s not the choice. It’s more like CB2 vs Edge2. With potentially two QBs, one DT, one CB, one Edge being off the table, our choice will probably be between CB2, Edge2 or WR1. If there is a surprise OT or Clelin Ferrell then who knows but we aren’t choosing the 3rd or 4th Edge over CB 2.

Teams don’t think in terms of positional rankings, they think in terms of grades.

CB2 could have a higher grade than Edge2 or even WR1. 
 

Think in terms of tiers.  Wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of teams end up with  1-2 players in their top tier, and 3-4 in the next.  If any of those fall to 8 they have to be considered. 

I hope we don't pass on a great player because of the "fit" of a coach and system that might not be here in the future.

I’ll be curious how he does when he starts to loose some of his assistant coaches.  
The “leader of men” deal doesn’t hit the same when you are losing. 

Zero players in the top 10 at their respective positions.

Only three top 20 players at their respective positions.

This team needs to quit focusing on winning soon and instead focus on building a solid foundation that can last awhile.

We were 2-15 last year and 5-10 this year, let's not act like we turned into a super bowl contender overnight.

Rookie QB improves a little in his second year (as expected) and we win a few more games.

Overall though we are 7-25, the roster is bad, who is responsible for that?

15 hours ago, mav1234 said:

Anyone with premium know how they rated Bryce? I'm curious how PFF compares to ESPNs QBR because so far the two don't line up at all hahaha.

Two totally different grading systems.  One is stat driven and one is eye test.

People want to call one right or wrong over the other, but you have to understand how they are determined and look at the results in that context.

This is why QBs, OTs, and I'm guessing edge (or DT's that can rush the QB) are valued so highly.

On 11/3/2024 at 1:53 PM, Mr. Scot said:

No we don't.

Any notion that he opposed every bad decision is highly unlikely.

The idea that he simply rubber stamped everything isn't realistic either.

The tales in the above post, though? Those represent valid and accurate critique.

excellent point.

If anything I would like to believe Morgan differed a good bit from Fitt on a majority of choices being made and hence the reason Tepper decided to promote Morgan.

If Morgan and Fitt truly agreed on most, and then you still promote Morgan that doesn't look good.

This is what happens when "old school football people" make decisions. 

There is little to no concept of positional value with this front office in regard to drafting or free agents.

Does this mean that this front office is guaranteed to fail?  No, but their margin of error is a lot smaller.  They better get lucky in drafting.

Anyone who thinks this team is heavily analytical driving clearly doesn't understand analytics.

On 10/21/2024 at 12:08 PM, mrcompletely11 said:

so if you believe that, that they truly had him ranked that high, then you have to acknowledge that many people on here are way more knowledgeable about qb scouting then some of these "professionals".  Or maybe just maybe its all a racket of people feeding supposed info for favors and whatnot.  I mean remember the kiper/clausen debacle.

 

And one thing to remember is that these scouts dont see teams big board.  they could be telling the scout whatever they want but their board could be completely different.  I mean if you believe reports numerous teams had bryce completely off their board due to size

So the big time media football draft sources and the Panthers all had Bryce Young high on their draft boards, but every other team knew he was terrible and had him ranked low???? Come on now.  Also, some of these sites actually do a really good job of predicating the top players so although they might not have access to every teams  big board, their list turns to be very accurate.

As far as fans knowing better than scouts it happens.  Let's be honest it's not an exact science.  In reality, everyone is wrong more than they are right.  Some of these fans that were so sure about Stroud were the same that were so sure about Fields.   

Were there some scouts that didn't like Young, I'm sure, but here again its not crazy to think he was the top QB on a lot of team's boards.  Fans scout based on stats, measurables, and usually YouTube highlight tape.  Based on that Stroud felt like a no brainer.  Throw in the game against GA and Stroud really looked good.  Unfortunately for us scouts watch all the games.  Young had some really good tape.  The fact teams thought that high of him at that size tells you his tape was really good.

Also, I do agree with you somewhat that sometimes fans are as good as teams at drafting.  Just look at the results, teams aren't great.  I think at times you could throw darts and be about as good.  With that being said I don't think fans are as good as they think they are, it's always easy to be correct in hindsight.

9 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

::sigh::  you simply dont know this

But it’s a pretty good guess.

The vast majority of the normal sources who report on this stuff every year had Bryce as one of the top 2 QBs, if not the top.

This was not Tepper going against the grain to prove how smart he was.

Once we traded all the way to 1 I knew we were taking Bryce because teams don’t trade up to one to go out on a limb to take someone that nobody else wanted.