AU-panther

23 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I haven't asked Frank about any of his personal decisions, though i can tell you one decision he probably regrets is coming to work for an owner that was going to undermine him with spies stabbing him in the back.

Of course, in your enlightened opinion, you think someone working in that environment should just carry on with a positive attitude and do the best they can. So what the heck is anybody complaining about anyway?

Oh wait, did you mean personnel decisions? Well, that one regarding a quarterback was kind of a big deal. But hey, your sources tell you differently, so...

still dodging I see.

speaking of the QB decision, every report pretty much said he liked Bryce, but none said he vetoed  everyone.else.

Although there are numerous reports that everyone else also liked Bryce but you aren’t so quick to post those.

You only post the one that was the author claiming he could guess who frank would like, and then play it off as that was who frank said he liked.

Here again let’s keep pushing a narrative.  Now here again, what other personnel decisions??? 

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If you say so, kid

I'm sure David Tepper is actually an amazing boss and everybody just misunderstands his actions.

Still waiting for those “major personal decisions”….

4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Tepper helped sabotage Reich from the beginning by influening his staff choices, among other things. Likely also influenced some of the major personnel choices as well, as has been discussed at length.

So yes, he affected their ability to win.

If, at some point, you experience a dysfunctional work environment like what the Panthers had, maybe you'll get it. Till then, I'm guessing not.

What personnel choices? 
 

So if Tepper would have hired Reich and then totally stayed out of the football side of things do you really think our results would have been different?  Probably not 

3 hours ago, PootieNunu said:

FIFY

His micro managing, I seen Cleveland run this play and I want to run it on Sunday, definitely didnt help.

He didn’t pick the QB on his own, another myth overplayed around here. 

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah, the boss did nothing wrong, it's all the employees' fault...

Riiiight 🫥

Either you haven't been in a real work environment, or you're the kind that thinks backstabbing and such is okay, hence the "boss is always right" stance

This isn't Madden. There are real people with real motivations, feelings and agendas involved. Internal turmoil among locker rooms and staffs causes real world issues...and lost seasons.

Reality: Tepper created a toxic work environment that undermined Reich trying to do his job. Fitterer actually became complicit in that, which is part of why he's gone. Now also part of why Chris Tabor, James Campen and others are gone.

If you can't comprehend how that works, I doubt I can help you.

Here again, so if Tepper wasn’t talking to assistant coaches Reich would have won more games?  Fitts players would have played better? 

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Never been in a work environment?

Yea, and good workers do their job regardless.

here again, if Tepper wasn’t talking to assistant coaches would the teams record be better? The answer is no.

If I own a team and they start 0-6 I’m asking everyone in the building what is wrong.

Tepper hired  the wrong coach and wrong GM, that is why we lost so much. 

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

These stories are a pretty big part of why we're not winning.

So if Tepper wasn’t talking to assistant coaches our offense would have scored more points and we would have won more games???

Think about it 

If the coaching and team building were better there wouldn’t  be anything to report back.  
People are getting all of this backwards.

Some coach telling the owner that the team sucks isn’t what is causing the team to suck. 
 

22 hours ago, Panthercougar68 said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/panthers/s/uy2mVt93rl
 

found it 

Do you ever notice how quick some posters are to post articles that fit their agenda? But when something doesn’t fit their narrative they are nowhere to be found? 

Question for all the people upset over there, what scenario are you worried about? 

18 minutes ago, Panthercougar68 said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/panthers/s/uy2mVt93rl
 

found it 

If you actually read the article Holder doesn't even say that Frank wanted Stroud, it says the author can guess who Frank wanted and it would have been Stroud if the author had to guess.  

Unfortunately reading comprehension is lacking around here, not to mention there are certain posters who like to continually reference the article to push an agenda.

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's not even the numbers for me. It's the eye test. If his numbers were bad but he showed elite talent I'd be willing to have more patience, but he just hasn't shown NFL talent.

I tend to agree with you, it doesn't look good for him turning it around but what are our options?

Spend another draft pick on a QB?  Sure, if we had our first.  Waste a 2nd on a long shot?  Sign a vet?

Honestly, I would hate to drop either into our offense.  Our previous front office has done a pretty good job of stripping our offense of talent.  Bryce is already paid for, spend the draft picks and some of the cap space into improving the talent on offense and then add the QB the following year.

You spend $6m to sign a vet QB that helps you win an extra 3 games?  That $6m can help you sign a guard that will help Bryce and whoever is playing QB in 2025.

21 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

I think the Teppers are legitimately scared of bringing in a completely new staff that might not be a bunch of yes men so they wanna keep some of their culture around so they can keep playing around with football decisions 

Do you really think Tepper made those 22 decisions????  

Our self awareness is terrible. Our roster is terrible, we need to quit worry about winning an extra 3-4 games but instead worry about building a roster.

I wouldn’t even worry about veteran competition. Sign a cheap guy to back him up and play out the year. 
 

 We spent a fortune for Bryce, put him out there, he either improves or he gets us get a better pick in 25.  Maybe he improves a little, and turns into a backup and you get some value out of him. 
 

Also I would be using most of my resources to improve the offense. Whether it’s Young or a rookie in 2025 we need better players on that side of the ball to correctly evaluate and develop whatever an it is.

And if Tepper was not involved as much as people say how many of those would have still happened?

The answer is pretty much all of them.  

This is why alot of the narratives around here are overblown.  

I’m not worried about his involvement as much as his ability to pick the correct people and to be honest there is such luck involved in that.  If there was a surefire formula every team would have a good coach and gm. 

46 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm sure you would say that, but you don't have a single thing to back that up.

Your entire position is basically to disagree with me (which near as I can tell is the only reason you post at all). The problem is you don't seem to have read a single piece of info on the things you claim to know.

Talk to me when you've actually got something to support your claims.

diverting again 

46 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You claim I'm misquoting something, only to turn around and completely mischaracterize what I've said

Can you actually quote where I've said analytics shouldn't be used at all?

Hint: I haven't.

What I did say was in response to the suggestion that if we'd engaged in analytics we might not have messed up on Young and others, etc. 

Hence, why I pointed out to our sadly mistaken friend that we did.

Of course we looked at analytics, but we also looked at traditional scouting. Which was the primary driver? 
You keep making absolute statements trying to prove your point and it’s not going well. 
Just because we looked at some analytics driven data doesn’t mean if we had used more that the outcome wouldn’t have been different. 
if anything I would say traditional scouting hurt us more than anything, better use of analytics could have prevented that.  Also better scouting could have. 

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Oh, I'm pretty comfortable with the way this "pointless" discussion is going

You've made clear you don't understand basic differences or definitions (historical data? yeah, sure). Hell, your last response was basically you signing on to something I'd already explained was foolish.

You don't get it. I doubt you're going to, but I expect you'll keep trying just so you can tell yourself you've stood up to me.

But hey, do you

And again 

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Keep trying, dude

lol.  That’s your typical response when  discussions aren’t going your way. 

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Scouting that included...wait for it, analytics 

Reality is that a lot of football analytics is basically just an attempt to quantify things that are already scouted, as if judging an offensive lineman's knee bend using a caliper somehow makes it more reliable than just using your eyes.

Hint: It doesn't.

I know there are people who think analytics is somehow going to make scouting foolproof. It's not. Nor will anything else. It's always going to be an inexact science that some people will be better at than others.

Acting like it's some magic wand is silly.

Nobody is saying it’s a magic wand.

Aalso knee bend would be a measurable., so maybe you are the one that doesn’t know the difference between analytics and knee bend. 
Analytic people realize that it is non exact science, they are just trying to use historical data to improve future odds somewhat.  It’s the non-analytic dinosaurs that tend to think in binary, absolute terms.

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Dude, you don't even know the difference between analytics and measurables.

Keep trying if you want, but oy...

I wasn’t referring just to measurables but either way this is a pointless discussion. 
You do realize the reason that Bruce was QB1 for so many people through the league was his film, you know that scouting thing you are talking about, but whatever. 

26 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The problem over the past few years was poor decision making.

Does relying on analytics fix that though? No.

Tepper is already heavily engaged in analytics as part of what we do. We're not missing that element.

What we're missing is better personnel evaluation.

Those personnel decisions would have been better with better use of analytics.  

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

You actually just demonstrated pretty well that you're someone who has no idea what analytics are

Scouting is a skill, but not everything within it is quantifiable. These days everybody wants a top ten list when in reality, breaking things down to a decimal point is rarely necessary for someone who knows what they're watching.

There are really only two categories a football player: good enough and not good enough. Some people have the skill set to judge those things. Others don't.

If you don't have that skill set, throwing a bunch of numbers into a blender isn't going to give it to you.

If you do, it isn't going to tell you anything you don't already know.

Lol.  Scouting isn’t about weather a player is good enough or not, it’s about projecting wether a player can be good enough or not at the next level, hence the reason scouts are so terrible at it.

Analytics is nothing but a tool to use in the bigger picture, to not use it is ignorant.  

11 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

One of the best examples of analytics use from this past offseason...

The S2

You are making the assumption that the S2 score is the entire reason we drafted Bryce.  In the absence of any S2 score he probably would have still been drafted first based on what the scouting told them.

Also based on this thread it’s pretty clear that those that complain about analytics the most understand them the least.

Alos if we were so analytics driven we might not have considered Young at all.  His measurables alone make him an outlier based on analytic data.

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

He certainly has the right to do that.

And in response, the best available candidates - or basically anyone with other options - has the right to say "kiss my ass, dumbsh-t".

Exactly how many draft picks di Tepper come up on his own? How many free agent decisions were his idea from the start?

To be honest, most of this drama is overplayed, hopefully the perspective coaches will see through that.  I will say though that at times perception can become greater than reality and do hope that doesn’t happen.