Panther'sBigD

I have a feeling Fitterer and his staff will do their due diligence either way. If they pick him up, I'll know they did their homework, so I'll be stoked about it. You never know what can happen. Rhule seems to have the ability to connect with younger, brash or immature players in a way that motivates them. Look at how differently Donte Jackson interacts with Rhule vs. Rivera. 

Edit: Moving to a different market like Charlotte might do him some good. It'd be tough for a rich, immature millionaire to stay focused in Nashvegas: Bachelorette Party Capital of the East. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF1XbWp6pAs&has_verified=1

Let Watson sit out for a year to put the pressure on Houston, while we trade back and pick up extra picks in one of the deepest drafts in a while. 

We fill the majority of the remaining holes on our roster with 2nd and 3rd round starters, who get a year under their belts in 2021. 

In 2022, we make another push for Watson, with a more attractive, competitive team, and less to lose if we trade away a couple years worth of high picks. Or we've sucked so bad that we can just draft Sam Howell. 

Fin.

There are tear downs in my neighborhood selling for $600,000. It's nuts. 

1 minute ago, ImaginaryKev said:

Very telling that folks are SO willing to take the side of the coaching staff and frame a player like Russell fuging Wilson as a problem based off a few articles. 

Remember when there were rumors circulating that Wilson and his first wife divorced over her sleeping with Golden Tate? Probably not because I had to look it up too. I just thought it was weird how that other poster characterized her as 'loyal' and his current wife, who he's been married two twice as long and has two kids with is just a 'random celebrity' who's made him insufferable. 

5 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

Ever since he ditched his loyal wife and got with that random celeb he's been insufferable. 

What a stupid take.

What makes you think his first wife was 'loyal' and that he ditched her? 

I think too many of you must watch Billions and think that having all that money gives you more balls than brains. That's the only reasoning I can come up with as to why so many of you seem to think Tepper or anyone else in the Panthers organization would be dumb enough to telegraph their intentions so publicly and basically show their belly to Houston. 

Weis also said his Notre Dame team would have a 'decided schematic advantage' over their opponents, then proceeded to take a huge sh!t on the field. 

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

From the same article as the other thread...

WASHINGTON'S WEALTH OF EXPERIENCE

If you’ve been around scouting types, you’ve heard this complaint in the past: General managers don’t get second chances the way head coaches do. And that grievance is, for the most part, rooted in truth.

Fired GMs don’t dive back into the director level of NFL scouting departments with nearly the same regularity that fired head coaches become coordinators again, and far more fired GMs than fired head coaches wind up out of football altogether.

That’s why Washington’s new structure intrigues me so much. Last year, between the nickname change and revelations of a toxic workplace (which went all the way up to the ownership suite), the organization went through as a full a reset as you’ll see in professional sports. A new coach, Ron Rivera, was ushered in to lead the football side; a new president, Jason Wright, was hired to lead the business side; and just about everything that long needed to be reckoned with was reckoned with.

Over the last two months, a second phase of that process was launched, with the team detonating the top of its scouting department and starting from scratch. In doing so, as I see it, they preyed on that no-second-chances-for-fired-GMs dynamic and maybe, just maybe, found a market inefficiency in rebuilding the personnel operation. Just consider …

• New GM Martin Mayhew was the Lions’ GM from 2009 to ‘15, building a playoff team in 2010, and one that went to the playoffs a year after his ouster.

• New EVP of football/player personnel Marty Hurney was the Panthers’ GM from 2002 to ‘12 and again from 2017 to ‘20, twice building Super Bowl teams.

• New director of pro personnel Chris Polian was the Colts’ GM from 2009 to ‘11, going to a Super Bowl and making the playoffs twice in that time.

• New senior director of player personnel Eric Stokes was assistant GM in Miami from 2014 to ‘15, and ultimately wound up out of the job as a result of GM Dennis Hickey being fired.

This is not usually how scouting departments are built. Normally, a new GM is hired, and younger guys connected to him come along with promotions. In this case, Washington has collected people who’ve been in these roles before and bring an ability to lean back on those experiences.

“This has come up several times in our conversations already, about things going on with the team currently, just in our meetings,” Mayhew said on Saturday. “Our experience in those conversations always comes up. Eric can say ‘When I was in Miami, this happened.’ Chris can say, ‘When I was in Indianapolis, this is how it played out.’ And I can talk about Detroit and Marty can talk about Carolina. So that experience is very valuable.

“We’ve all made mistakes. Anybody who’s had this job has made mistakes. And we’ve all learned from them. I think we do a very good job of bouncing ideas off each other. I think one good thing about all of us is we’re very opinionated. None of us hold our tongue or hold back. We all have opinions on things, and we will get them out on the table, and get them out and discuss them.”

“I certainly, speaking for myself, think it’s helped me,” Hurney said Friday. “And I’ve had two chances to do that. You start, when you first get let go, by looking at all the things you did wrong. And then after a while, you start looking at the things you did right, and you start getting more confident in the things that you did right. And you look at how to improve the things you did wrong. For me, it was a terrific help.”

On paper, Mayhew and Hurney are equals—both reporting to Rivera in Washington’s self-dubbed “coach-centric” model. And they swear to the fact that, in practice, it’s that way too.

So when I asked who’s in charge, I got a pretty straightforward answer.

“Ron’s in charge, actually,” Mayhew said. “Marty and myself both report to Ron. Ron has the ultimate say. He makes the final decision. It’s going to be the two of us working with Ron, making recommendations of what we think should happen. And Ron makes the ultimate decision.”

Mayhew added that, “Our jobs are very similar and very loosely-defined roles. There hasn’t been anything that’s [like] I’m definitely in charge of this area, Marty’s definitely in charge of this area. I think we work very well together.” And the truth is, if Mayhew (55) and Hurney (65) were younger and still climbing the ladder, or didn’t have a relationship, that might be a problem.

Age and experience have made each secure in who he is, and that brings us back to the benefit of having this sort of knowhow in the building. Along those lines, both guys brought specific examples to illustrate what they’d learned from previous failures as GMs.

For Hurney, it relates back to the clogged cap that helped lead to his initial ouster from the Panthers in 2012 and his relationship with then Carolina cap chief Rob Rodgers, who happens to be in Washington now, too.

“He has a very good feel for the numbers,” Hurney said. “Sometimes I think, at least in my case, I would get emotionally involved in trying to get a player, trying to make the team better, because that’s what you’re focused on—winning games. I learned that, Hey, listen, this is his area of expertise. He knows how to translate a player’s résumé to what he should make and the contract negotiation part of it. And I think he would tell you the second time around was much better. Overall, and big picture-wise, that’s what I’ve learned.

“People have their areas of expertise, and not that you don’t give your opinion, but you listen and let them do their jobs. That was one of the big things I learned from the first time around.”

Mayhew’s example wasn’t totally dissimilar—it also came over time, and proved true from one experience (Detroit) to another (San Francisco, where he was the last four years).

“One thing that I’ve learned is we have to be fully aligned and fully on the same page,” Mayhew said. “That’s not just coaches and the personnel department. I’m talking about the players have to be fully bought in, ownership has to be fully bought in. And I saw that firsthand in San Francisco in 2019, the way that season went, and also the start of this past season. Obviously didn’t go the way we wanted, but the alignment was definitely there.

“And everybody was on board. Everybody was doing their part in moving toward that common goal. You really can’t say that about the entire time that I was in Detroit. There were fits and starts. Times when things worked well and we were all communicating well and things were moving in the right direction. But it wasn’t consistent enough.”

In that way, Mayhew contended that he could connect the Super Bowl team he played on in Washington in 1991 and that San Francisco team of 28 years later. “That’s part of what excites me about working with Marty, working with Ron, is to see that process, see that setup happen again,” Mayhew said. “I want to be a part of it.”

And that’s really going to be happening in earnest in the coming days, as Rivera’s coaching staff starts presentations for the new scouting department, with plans to detail the schemes and spell out prototypes for every position, something that also highlights how early in the process of melding the operation together Washington really is.

But the hope is that, given the experience of the guys involved, all of this comes together relatively quickly. Because while on one hand, Hurney affirmed that being part of the reinvention of the Washington Football Team has special meaning to him and Mayhew, given their deep roots with the organization (Hurney being from the area and Mayhew having played there), Mayhew was quick to remind me this isn’t a total rebuild.

“I wouldn’t call it a blank canvas,” Mayhew said. “We’re not coming into a situation of a team that was 1–15 or 2–14 last year that has no talent. To me, that’s what a blank canvas is; you can start anywhere and put it together. I think we have some areas of the team that are very strong, and we’re going to build around those areas. … We’re not at a point where I was when I first took over in Detroit or when I first got to San Francisco. We’re much further advanced than that, and we just want to build on what we already have.”

Which, of course, is what someone who’s been there before might say.

LOL. There are posters on this board who would trade a night with their spouse, in addition to our first round picks for the next three years, and assorted starters, just for Watson. Many of them are the same posters that bash Hurney for being 'too emotionally involved in his attempts to get a particular player.' Oh the irony. 

14 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

For all his bluster, that's his defining moment as a Panther.

To chuds maybe, but for actual Panther fans, he's got a great highlight reel he left on the field for us. 

3 minutes ago, Verge said:

Someone is going to trade a ridiculous amount for Deshaun Watson, that is going to happen. Jay Cutler got two 1sts, Khalil Mack got two 1sts, Laremy Tunsil got two 1sts, and Deshaun Watson is 10x the value of all those players. I already made a big long post on why it is worth it, and I stand by that. 

I agree on all points, I just hope the someone isn't the Panthers. 

1 minute ago, Verge said:

If and I say if we get Deshaun Watson and lose Robby, I would imagine Will Fuller would make a ton of sense on a 2 year low risk deal similar to what Robby got. 

It really worries me when someone with your good track record seems to think this ridiculous trade has a chance of getting done. 

This is a Herschel Walker type of trade, and we all know how that one worked out for Minnesota. Granted, unlike RB, an elite QB is the keystone to a great team, but if we give away our chance to build through the draft for the next several years, how are we going to make the most of the first few years of Watson's contract?

I love the idea of getting a QB like Watson, but not if he's scrambling behind a piss poor line, throwing to sub par targets for 2-3 years. We've already seen how that plays out. 

LOL, never going to happen. There's no way Tepper, Rhule and Fitterer combined are as stupid and reactionary as Peter King or a lot of posters on this board. 

A couple of people complaining on twitter is not 'everyone', lol. The prices are steep though. 

I'd be interested to hear Geoff's opinion on drafting a bunch of linemen from this draft vs. trading everything away for a single QB prospect. If this class is as deep as it seems to be, we'd be crazy to miss out on rebuilding virtually our entire oline with draft picks on rookie deals for the next 3-5 years. 

Fix your title. 

2 hours ago, cltfcfantv said:

i think you can pick between 2-4 years if that helps any.

Minimum was 4 on the site today. It'll be fine. It's an investment. Thanks for the response!

If Tepper actually said any of this to anyone, it was purposely telegraphed in the spirit of, "Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel." 

47 minutes ago, ncfan said:

So you want to start PJ, with CMC back and a BPA like a Pitts.

 

So you're complaining about trading from 8 to 3

 

 

How are you going to feel trying to trade from 12 into the top 3 for a Sam Howell next year instead?

Personally, I would trade back, get an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder from the trade, and go all offensive line, and either safety or linebacker, depending on how the FA market shapes up for those two positions. I feel like with another solid draft like last year's, we could solidify the line, replace at least one of the glaring weaknesses on defense and be in a much better position to mortgage the farm and trade all our 2022 and maybe some 2023 picks for a QB like Howell. 

Not being able to pick in the first two rounds for the next 2-3 years would sting a lot less if we already had a solid offensive line, with integral pieces on rookie contracts and a year to gel under their belts. 

I don't want what happened with Cam to happen to another elite QB. 

Nothing good happens at the Homewood Suites. 

I'm getting some premium seats on Thursday when my spot opens up. Kinda leery of committing to a minimum of four years of season tickets though. I guess we'd all better hope that this team pans out. I personally think they'll increase in value quickly as things open back up toward the end of 2021/beginning of 2022 and people are looking for things to do out in public again. 

Powell is a possible replacement for Samuel, so it makes sense. 

It's good to be involved in all of these QB situations. Think about how many times over the years under Marty we'd hear about some player we wanted getting traded for way less than we could have offered, or better trades that we didn't even show interest in. 

Also, it's a great way to find out who else is involved and what kind of capital they're playing with. I think about what Rhule said about the GM interview process...how he would have paid for the information he got from all of those interviews. They're collecting data, and I love it. 

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

You'd have gotten drunk and thrown the Lombardi trophy across a river?

"When you're a Super Bowl champion, they let you do it. You can do anything."

I hope we sit out of the QB derby and draft other offensive positions, particularly the linemen, in the first three rounds and build a crazy talented, super young offensive line that can grow together and create a solid perimeter around whoever our QB turns out to be. An elite QB is squandered on a team with poorly built lines. 

Situation absolutely matters. Mahomes would have been running for his life here, just like Cam. Imagine Cam or Mahomes behind Dallas' billion dollar offensive line a few years back. Imagine a healthy Cam with Andy Reid or hell even Joe Brady. It makes me so angry to know the Panthers squandered a generational talent on hacks like Mike Shula, and that Rivera/Hurney/Gettleman let him get beat to hell because they were too stupid or stubborn to properly invest in a legit o line or weapons for Cam.