d-dave

Here's why I marked it incomplete.  We don't know the outcome yet?

Man, right now, it looks like absolute garbage. It's hard to argue that we wouldn't have been better with a different QB and kept the picks.  We're searching for a new coach for the 2nd time in two seasons.  We are so crap right now, it's not funny.

BUT (very very BIG but), if Bryce turns out to be THE DUDE, then it is worth it.  This season, everything went wrong.  From coaches, to draft picks, to plays, to the bounce of the ball on a fumble.  It's difficult to separate what is snake bit versus what's just plain poo.  It all turns to turd in the portapotty.

We need to see what Bryce looks like.  If he can get better, if we can get a good coach, a league average OL, maybe hit a few more draft picks and FA...  Then we can make a fair judgement, after giving him all the chances.

If we're picking top 5 again, time to hit the QB draft lottery ticket again.  

I was pretty surprised that Bryce made it all season long.  The reality is that some times, you're just lucky.  Being the biggest and strongest isn't the best.  As Bryce said about his size, he's dealt with it his entire life.

So that's a good thing, a small good thing.  It's not viable long term.  Instead, the TEAM (including Bryce) need to improve in a LOT of areas.  Just win baby. Winning cures all.  Insert whatever you want to say: the Panthers start winning games, a lot of the doom and gloom will disappear.

If not, then more changes will be made.

2 hours ago, csx said:

Not  applicable to blocking a lateral move.

That's what folks need to understand, most NFL teams block lateral moves for assistant coaches.  We're in a different situation because we are without a head coach.  We did this before with OL and ST.  I'm not sure if it's common throughout the league, to hold old coaches for new HC and staffs.

I will say Evero and Tabor are great coaches, and I think any new HC would be thrilled to have them.  Then again, the NFL is an ego business...  So all bets are off.

Honestly, there's a lot of much ado about nothing because everyone is just dancing with different partners right now.  If Evero gets a HC gig, then he's gone.  If we hire a new HC and they want their own DC, then Evero will be DC else where.  It will all work itself out.

It's really going to depend on the new coach and their system.  If they want to run more power, then we're good, just keep finding better guys, and coach up the younger players we already drafted.

If they want to change things drastically like Reich did...god help us all again!

49 minutes ago, PanthersATL said:

the conversations lead to piracy

I will say that's going to be the big proof.  They need to be able to connect people from reddit to their torrenting/pirating.

Baker, like many players here, failed because of a lack of leadership and good coaching.  Things didn't turn around until Wilks bent the team to his plan.  The Rhule / McAdoo system (much like Reich's) didn't work with our personnel.  Wilks recognized that we needed to be a smashmouth team.  Why didn't Baker rise to the top?  Because he was playing catch up from the get go.  By the time of Wilks, Baker was cooked for the year.  He needed a hard reset, which this off season did.  It didn't hurt going to a team with Mike Evans, Godwin, a +OL, and a stout D. 

Look, I'm glad for Baker.  He seemed like a real pro while here.  I hate how utterly dysfunctional our team is.  The big thing we're going to need is for Tepper to let the coaches coach.  Hire the GM, coach, and whoever, then just stay the heck out.  Be a big fan and cheerleader.  Do good works in the city and community.  Make fun of yourself, go from biggest asshat in town to the goofy uncle.  Let the football team run for a few years without your meddling and see what happens.

It's fun.  I'll watch what I can.  I do enjoy football period.  What's fun about the AAF/XFL recently has been how hard these guys play.  

Some of y'all need to let people be happy.  Sheesh.

Life sucks.  Let people have their fun, their joy.  If it hurts your feelings, then that's on you.

It's pretty cool to see Detroit finally get a playoff win.  And always a bonus when the Cowboys lose

While we all love knee jerk reactions to things, I think rushing to conclusions is pretty short sighted.

You can absolutely say that Bryce Young did not meet expectations.  That's true and accurate.  You can also say that he didn't have a lot of help.  Bryce was sold to the NFL fanbase as a guy who didn't need the support because he was a play maker.  He wasn't.  That's fair.  It's easy to look at the success of CJ Stroud and say "Why didn't we do that?!?  Bryce is a turd!!!"

But like most things in life, it's not so easy or useful to make fast decisions like that.  Bryce was not helped by the Frankenstein System of Reich and Brown.  His offensive line was not great.  His Qb coaching was sub par.  Basically, when you throw a doughnut in a port a john, it becomes just another piece of poo in that gross blue water.

The 2023 Panthers SUCKED!  Bad!!  Now the question is, can Bryce be redeemed?  Yes.  If he gets the right coaching and system, and is taught how to be an NFL QB by his coaches, then we can really see what's up.  Next year is going to be a cluster as well, as we work our way out of the porta potty world.  I expect Bryce to be better.  To improve in those fundamentals.  To play with more poise and anticipation.

If he has a repeat in 2024, then I think it's much more fair to call him a bust than right now.  Remember, as much fan as it is kicking someone while they're down, he was the consensus #1 pick.  If Houston had traded to 1, they would have selected him.  

Chill out, enjoy some football, and let's obsess over our next coaching staff and GM...=)

Bryce is defiantly safe for the 2024 season.  This season sucked in about a million different ways.  Honestly, waiting in line at the DMV would have probably be a more entertaining time than most of our games!

That being said, Bryce was the top QB last draft.  Regardless of how incredibly well Stroud has played this season, Young was the consensus.  Honestly, what needs to happen to see Bryce improve is a more unified system.  The idea of marrying McVay with Reich's spread was not great.  We need well designed plays that give QBs answers instead of forcing Young to figure it out.  That's what good offensive coaches do.

That's going to be the biggest challenge: how do we take the players we have under contract (OL is power run, WRs are big and or slow, QB is small, TE is an afterthought, and Chubba is the best RB on the roster), and make a system that works for them.  More than who has the fattest rolodex, I want the coach with the best plan for what we have offensively.  And I want a coach who can lead the team.

I don't doubt that Scott was a likable guy in the organization.  In pressers, he seemed like a good dude.  But a good dude doesn't make you a quality GM.  He's been in charge of adding and retaining talent to this team for three years and the results speak for themselves.  He's not good at it.

I think he would have been a good fit at as VP of Football Ops or something, looking at the big picture and dealing with Tepper more than having a day to day impact on the team.   But I'm fine letting everything go with this regime.  It's up to Tepper to prove he's learned something.  The buck stops with him, right?

As much as I want to root for Dan Morgan, I think we need a full cleaned house.  Everyone has to go.  Sucks, but the stench has just been too thick and heavy this year.  Just not good enough period.

Counter point:  How are DJ Moore and CMC doing outside of Carolina?  What did we do with the assets we got from them?

While I don't want to pay Burns $30+ million a year, let's be careful what we wish for.  Burns put out 8 sacks on a team that NEVER led.  He never got to pin his ears back.  His next best edge rusher this season was YGM.  

While Burns wasn't all world, he was the only remotely consistent pass rusher we have.  Luvu has been a good interior pass rusher, but that was not his primary job this season.

This entire season was a giant TURD of a season.  No one is immune from the smell.  But if we trade Burns or let him walk, don't be surprised if he plays well else where.  We keep trading away great talent and we have a 2~15 record to show for it...  Maybe, just maybe we try keeping a talented player.

I know some of y'all just want to trash Bryce because CJ Stroud looks to be the guy and you think we missed.  I get it!  

You don't give up as much as we did for Bryce and cut him after a year.  Look, he did plenty wrong, which is what you expect as a rookie.  But the rest of the offense looked like crap plenty.  Bryce gets another shot next year, regardless of what the fans think because of all the investment put into drafting him.

Now if we don't see improvement in 2024, then by all mean, toss him.  But this team was poorly built, despite being told we were one player away from making noise.  It's going to depend on the next coach and staff.

Sorry, but we're all going to have to wait and see.

I'm not going to argue was pretty much a shite game from Bryce, you don't invest what you did in him and move off after a single season.  I know many of y'all are ready to draft ANYONE at 33, and I can't blame you for your frustrations.

The reality is that many rookie QBs struggle.  We were sold that Bryce was ready to be a great QB from the jump.  It hasn't happened, and we're bitter.  But we also sold the entire farm for Bryce.  You can't change that.  Before we determine if Bryce is a success or not, we need a GM, coach, and VP of Football ops.

Maybe things will be different next season, maybe they won't.  But we won't be drafting Bryce's replacement at 33.  First round rookie QBs tend to have a long leash before they get yanked.  We are in the Bryce Young experience for a good while longer.

Just now, Davidson Deac II said:

Ickey did ok yesterday, but still struggles in pass blocking.  Hopefully, it will improve.  

Brady Christensen coming back next year will help a lot with the guards, assuming he can stay healthy.  

It's going to be up to Ickey how good he becomes.  Whoever that coach is, needs to challenge him to be great.  I remember seeing/reading something along the lines of it's really up to Ickey how good he wants to be.  He's got all the tools, but this season is part scheme (he's not a zone guy at OT); but a larger part is himself.  He's got to put in the work.

Hopefully year three we see a lot of growth from Ickey.  If he's able to get better, it's only going to make the entire line better.

Man, what a fun game on Christmas Eve.  I hate that we just ran out of time.

Some of y'all are just miserable, and that's fine.  Huddle gunna Huddle, bup bup bup?  Sometimes, you have to just enjoy it.  

I'm disappointed in our defense, and the slow start from the offense.  You can't do that.  But man, the team fought back.  You have to give them credit for that.  We are still not a good team with too many holes all over the place.  But we played hard, we were almost there.

Bryce looked the part.  DJ Chark had himself a game.  The past two weeks the team has played much better.  So I enjoyed it.  Sucks to lose, but to feel the passion for the team again is great.  I thought they were done after that 2nd GB TD, but they kept coming.

That being said: this team is going to go through some massive changes and turnover next season.  But I think more and more, Bryce is looking like he can be that guy.  Feel free to disagree, I'm just a moron with a keyboard.

Again, why are we going to insist that we bring in a new HC but give them less control over their staff?  I have a lot of respect for the Evero has done this season with the injuries and lack of talent for a 3-4 front.  He's one of the top defensive coaches in the league, he's only 42, and he's got the chops for be a coach. 

That being said, you can suggest, but you can't force a DC onto a new coach, especially a first time coach.  I think Tim Donnelly on 99.9 said it best: if you're an offensive coach, the DC needs to be your best friend.  Someone you can trust, because their work is going to go on your record.  

I think Evero is a great DC, great coach, and looks the part of the HC.  It won't be much longer before he gets a HC job.

Since Tepper bought the team, his worth has increased to like $16 BILLION.  If he paid a coach $15 million per year, it would take 67 years before he ended up paying a single billion.  

I could give two poops what Tepper has to pay a coach.  I have no problem with folks getting rich fleecing Tepper.  Not my money, and it doesn't count on the cap.  Fug it all!

Man what a year 2023 has been.  As it all winds down, more than likely ending like a wet turd on carpet with the Panthers, I'd like to offer my best wishes to all huddlers this time of year.  I've disagreed with plenty of folks on here across several forums, but I hope I never came across as mean or spiteful.

Frankly, the world sucks.  No matter which tribe your on, 2023 bent most of us over and took it's pound of flesh (or more).  We've all experienced differing amounts of losses, personal, financial, sports wise, whatever.  My most sincere wish is that all of you are able to find some peace, happiness, and joy at this end of year season.

Merry Christmas!  Hope you had a happy Hanukkah!  Happy Kwanzaa!  Happy Eid al-Fitr as Ramadan comes to a close!  Happy Yule!  Happy freakin' holidays! 

Be safe!  Call for a ride if you drink too much.  Be kind to others because you never know how much that might mean to someone!

It's a good read, and really reminds you that we need a new GM.

For Burns: either keep him or trade him, stop messing around.  If it looks like we were keeping him, should have paid him.  If you weren't going to pay him, then trade him.  Instead we're going to sit here with an unhappy Burns on a franchise tag instead of either moving him for picks or paying him his market value (not the huddle value).  Piss or get off the pot Scott!

Win > Loss

How hard is that?  It was ugly AF, and I’m thrilled to have that winning feeling.

I'm sorry some of y'all are unhappy we won.  I’m sorry we didn’t make it pretty enough.  I’ll take a win over 100 pretty losses.  But that’s just me.

As soon as I saw beta male...I quit reading.  All you have to do is listen to future incel middle school boys to figure out what this is about.  The Andrew Tate nonsense is pathetic.  I guess that means I'm some kind of kuck/beta but Tate is a loser, and folks who live and breath by his message are sad boys.

It is a leadership thing.  From the Top (Tepper) down (practice squad) the leadership is completely fugged.  Because Tepper is impatient and thinks that football is like a hedge fund where quick turnaround are the norm.  Tepper is the biggest, richest problem we have.

We need Tepper to sit back and only look at the business side and hire a football president.  Their job is to run the football side and separate Tepper from the on field team. Until Tepper steps back and allows the leaders in the locker room, the head coach, and GM to lead.

But that's just me, an Andrew Tate ignorer.  What do I know?

So lots of Short Kings on the huddle?

While you can continue to debate his tools because they haven't shown well at all, you can't blame him for being drafted by the Panthers.  Is it the NFL hype machine?  The internet scouting machine?  Some other machine I don't know about?  Whatever it was, Bryce was hailed as a baby Mahomes.   Not as big or physically talented, but smart, creative and effective.  Bryce was widely considered the best Qb in the draft and overall number 1 lock, no matter who took him.  Bryce himself seems super nice and accountable, I don't think he was trying to game the system to hoodwink a team.

So no one was robbed.  If Bryce ultimately fails, that's just the cost of doing business in the NFL.  You win some picks, you lose some.  What did the 49ers do when they realized the QB they needed all along in Purdy not the guy they traded the farm for?  They cut their loses and moved on.  Bryce needs another year to prove it.  This team is a poo show.  I genuinely think he's doing the best that he can.  There's only so much polishing a turd you can do before you're covered in it.  

If Trey Lance and Zach Wilson get multiple chances to prove they could be the guy, you got give Bryce a chance with a halfway decent coaching staff and scheme.  You put any other rookie or young QB here, it's a poo show still.  How would CJ do here?  Purdy?  Love?  Tua?  You can't tell me that they would be winning 5 much less 10 games this season with this scheme and staff.

What a GREAT interview.  I love Cam Newton!  While I don't always agree with him, he's always 100% authentic.  When he said he would love to be President of Football...I was like, YES!  YES!  100 times YES!!!

Look, Cam is very polarizing in the media and fan base (which he admits was purposeful), but he also has super high emotional intelligence and is fantastic at forging interpersonal relationships.  I think Cam would actually be really great in keeping the football side of things separate from Tepper.  Cam is the alpha dog in franchise history.

I mean, sure there's a LOT of risk, but so is allowing Tepper full access to meddling with his football team...  Maybe I'm just really tired but man, that sounds like such a GREAT idea!!!