Stingray3030

11 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Hard to say for certain whether or not our roster is improved, but i can say for certain, our coaching staff couldn't be much worse than Rhule and Reich. 2 wins isn't a very high bar. 

For me to judge I look at it by group:

QB - Improved most likely

RB - Improved most likely (rookie upside)

WR - Greatly improved (rookie upside)

TE - Improved most likely (rookie upside)

OL - Greatly improved

DL - Slight downgrade (maybe?  Robinson + Wonnum + Clowney < Burns???  Could be equal or better)

LB - Slight downgrade (different players - rookie upside)

CB - Slight downgrade (rookie upside)

S - Push

Coaching - Greatly improved

To me I expect us to be significantly better overall - but significant over last year means 5-6 wins.  

College coaches told him he would be a Center, our staff is confident in him being a Center, he sounds confident in it, he has been a starter at Guard for multiple years on a SB caliber team, the highest paid centers in the league average being drafted in round 4-5 so they aren't tough to grab later.  No reason for me to think I know better than all those experts and the guy doing the job.  

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, I think that side sort of emerged at the end of the prior year too and just stuck.  The Gamecock game specifically.  Didn't he have to apologize for saying too much after Dabo botched that one on trick plays and stuff?  But I mean, I think he was right.  Not that you want your player saying the correct thing publicly lol.   Think he just got frustrated Clemson could of won more games than they did....if it was just about that and not trying to develop DJ and then Cade.  I mean, I do think running and grinding out Shipley/the ground game and playing D....probably could of won some of those losses. 

and that CJ Spiller incident on the sideline is a legit dislike moment this past year.   And I largely ding most guys hard for those type things.  Which I probably give him a pass on. 

end of the day, I just want a natural pass catcher in the backfield and to round out the backfield better. 

I forget about Trotter in this draft.  I do think if a Tiger is signed, it's a front 7 guy.  Just like fearing them overdrafting Shipley.  Part of me worries about Ruke. 

I'm sure it was frustration induced, but that doesn't make it any less damaging to the team.  And the running the ball winning the game - maybe maybe not but that is not the offense we installed.  You can't just decide to run the ball if that isn't the scheme you learned - guys need the structure.  This new TCU offense is not designed for that - still doable to an extent but bucking the Coach and OC is never OK and just shows a maturity issue.  He might grow out of it but many don't in time to prevent ruining their career.  I also don't see him as a natural pass catcher as you stated - he was trending but never really established that.

1 hour ago, CRA said:

I could see Ruke or Xavier being possibilities this year.  Top 30 visits.  Seems this group looked at Clemson more so than past regimes.   Not that I really want that to happen.  I think the last time I legitimately wanted them to draft a Tiger was Nuk. 

I'm also curious if they end up doubling down on the local products.   XL checks the box.   They brought Wilson, Walker, a bunch of Clemson guys in.  Who knows.  I would like Shipley in the 4th.  But I strongly want them to draft a RB that isn't an early down runner and can be part of the pass game. 

Shipley's attitude last year bothers me - heard some stuff from people connected that he has a bit of a diva and complained about not getting the ball.  We already have DJ for that lol.  But I wouldn't be mad at it if we did grab him later - he was very good in spurts for the Tigers.  I'd rather get a true 3rd down RB though with rushing upside to compliment Chuba and help BY in the screen game.  Blackshear is good for that but we could upgrade it.

I do like Trotter from Clemson for us also - maybe in the 4th, I am hoping we get Sinnott tonight in the 3rd.

1 hour ago, XClown1986 said:

Yes to Wilson. Hell no to Shipley in the 3rd.

As a Clemson fan I agree with this comment.  You can get Shipley later.  Also we have never drafted a Clemson player, so we probably won't do it.

55 minutes ago, dxpanther said:

Hopefully legette pick will put Mingo on notice 

Building for the future - Thielen is 34 with an out in 2025, Diontae is on a 1-yr deal.  TMJ should have already been cut.  Better get used to the idea of Mingo as our #1 or #2 as soon as next year - not even close to going anywhere in the near future.

4 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Samuel and LaFell are washes, imo.  Neither more than a decent slot or a marginal Z WR.

Given Samuel's draft spot he way underachieved so far IMO - LaFell I guess I would give a push to since he had a few good years after he left us.

6 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

For those of us screaming for a WR on day 2, there is this:

Day 2 WRs drafted by Panthers (round)

2023:  Jonathan Mingo (2)

2021: Terrace Marshall Jr. (2)

2017: Curtis Samuel (2)

2015: Devin Funchess (2)

2010: Brandon Lafell (3); Armanti Edwards (3)

2007: Dwayne Jarrett (2)

2004: Keary Colbert (2)

2001: Steve Smith (3)

1997: Muhsin Muhammad (2)

Sadly we are 2 for 10 based on this list....sure hope Morgan has a better eye

Only scenarios I have seen have us trading up to 14-30 range for either Bowers at 14 or AD Mitchell somewhere in there.  Could happen but I'm hoping Mitchell falls to us

Just saw a trade proposal of 2X 5th round picks for Courtland Sutton - I would do that in a heartbeat and put all this WR discussion to bed.  I would still consider a WR in the 2nd round depending who is there and what is offered to move down, but it no longer becomes need #1.

9 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

What I don't like about these mocks is they make trades but don't list everything we get in return or the return is weak.

Trade down - fine (depending on details).  Drafting Polk with AD Mitchell on the board is an epic fail.  Every single credible mock and ranking I have seen has AD Mitchell as a 1st rd talent and Polk as 3rd or lower other than this one.

I don't think the tag "disappointing" is fair for Schoony and Meyer as rookies. They both had to play beside a volume WR sucking up touches (top 2 in the league in targets).  Schoony was the #2 TE behind Ferguson, so tough to be impactful as a rookie - Mayer barely played till week 5 and got hurt and missed the last 3 games, not to mention playing with a rookie QB.  So once again - context matters alot.  

That said I believe there is 1 stud, 1 high potential overpay, and 3 big value TE's in the draft - Bowers may be Kelce so probably worth 1st round value.  Sanders is getting a bit overhyped with his potential so he might go earlier than he should.  I think we should be looking to snag Sinnott, Wiley, or Stover - my preference is Sinnott but Wiley could be there in rounds 4-5 or later and could be well worth it.

RB I definitely think Chubba is underappreciated - again context!  Our OLine was horrendous and he averaged 3.8 Y/A!!!  I mean come on - dude easily lost 0.3 at least on those idiots.  But that said his pass catching and pass blocking were pretty poor most of the year also.  An upgrade would be great, but I tell ya, with the RB market as it is now where I can get Sequan for $12.5M, I am NEVER drafting a RB above round 4 unless he is the next CMC.....just go to the FA market and find some pocket change in your couch and get a top 5 RB.  We just screwed that up with Sanders.  But the guys in the 3-5 round range could be OK....there isn't a top tier RB in this draft IMO.  I would sit it out this year on RB unless you can get a decent guy who falls far.....Sanders and Chubba are likely better then most anything in the draft.

On 4/14/2024 at 11:55 AM, MHS831 said:

OK, I am back. It bothers me not having the second rounder in 2025, but I had to take what what was available.  I can't NOT take a first-round grade OC when he is sitting atop my board.  Nor could I pass on Ladd at 39.  Wilson at #65 could be the steal of the draft if he stays healthy, but Jonah Ellis in the fourth was stealing too.  Ray Davis is a beast of a compact runner.  Wiley is a tall target for Mini-Cam and we probably need to watch the waiver wire for CB depth.

 

 

I don't think C is a big enough need to take it at 33 - I realize that is not consensus - but I would be thrilled with the rest of your draft if we got that kind of value.  Personally I would replace the Barton pick with a CB maybe or trade down if I was confident I could get the next 3 guys you drafted at those spots.  Would be amazing if we could get exactly what you got + an extra 2nd or 3rd which has been mocked quite a few times.  I am very ready for next week!

Any of you guys watch this channel?  I like their insights.  This was a good video in detail for the top 14-15 WR's IMO:  

13 hours ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

PANTHERS 7-ROUND MOCK DRAFT HAUL

Second round (33rd overall pick): Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson

Trade: CAR trades 39th overall (via NYG) to CLE for 54th and 85th overall picks

Second round (54th overall pick via CLE): Ja’Tavion Sanders, TE, Texas

Third round (65th overall pick): Jalen McMillan, WR, Washington

Third round (85th overall pick via CLE): Jaylen Wright, RB, Tennessee

Fourth round (101st overall): Marist Liufau, LB, Notre Dame

Fifth round (141st overall via NYG): Tanor Bortolini, C, Wisconsin

Fifth round (142nd overall via TEN): Cornelius Johnson, WR, Michigan

Seventh round (240th overall pick via PIT): Khalid Duke, OLB, Kansas State

Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article287512665.html#storylink=cpy

I've been a fan of the trade backs, but only for lopsided rewards our way - and certainly not to miss the top 17 WR's.  Walking out of this draft with WR 8-10 instead of 6-8 due to a trade is one thing....but dropping down to WR 17 is punishable by death.  Sanders is a great addition if we can get him, but only after we get our WR.

On 4/12/2024 at 2:57 PM, CRA said:

but we do have last year to make educated assumptions off of. 

33 was traded last year.  For a team to go get a QB.  

so if it is similar to that, just draft the best WR on the board IMO. 

 

 

Well again you may be right - but you may not.  My point is there is no way to be sure because you don't know who is there at 33.  If only 4WR have been drafted it is different than if 6 have been (AD Mitchell/McKonkey vs Pearsall/Troy Franklin) - that can be a huge difference.  Also last year the deal was to move down to 41 and pick up next year's 3rd rounder....not bad.  Plus Nix and Penix are more coveted than Levis from most accounts so likely to get a better offer.  My point was alot of people are saying "yall are wrong we definitely should do this no matter what" when they have no context - contrary to the media's opinion, context matters ever time.

We don't know what is to offered for those 2 picks.....we don't know who is available to move up for....we don't know who is going to there at the end of Day 1.  So nothing is at all certain - some of yall like to act like none of that matters and it is obvious what the right decision is....nothing is for sure at this point.

Rice getting arrested probably impacts us....Diggs to the Texans probably impacts us via the Bills....what is Higgins gets traded before we pick...what is other trades happen in the 1st round....anything can still happen that affects all of it.  The answer is we see what is available before we make decisions.

33 - trade down, the actual best WR available, the best CB/DE/LB who drops

39 - the actual best WR available if not at 33, the best CB/DE/LB if not 33

I know the question is to be more specifically who, but frankly the WR class outside of the top 4 is heavily debated - there are 10-15 guys on mocks right now between picks 20-60 all moving from top to bottom.  I just need us to get this RIGHT for once.  Legette, Worthy, AD, Franklin, Pearsall, Tez, McConkey, Coleman, Wilson all look like they could be #5 or #15 WR. 

And our 2nd biggest need is a top defended at all levels....so whichever is the BPA there I am good with it.

I do not think Center is even in our top 5 positions of need - for me it is CB, WR, TE, DE, LB, C.

I would maybe offer him an extension now which includes restructuring this year's salary - improves the cap if we need it now and gets him extended and out of the way?  Only if we needed the space honestly....which right looks like we might.  Basically agreeing with you guys I guess

18 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

I like this guy. 

Worst OLine in the league paired with worst WR core in the league paired with below average TE receiving group paired with below average RB receivers paired with an outdated scheme paired with horrendous team culture.  Our offense as a whole was probably worse than the top 25 in the NCAA last year....not exaggerating.  It isn't excuses it is facts....data, results, eye test all confirm.

Bryce could very well be the problem - but you would never know based on last season because he had offensively the worst situation I have ever heard of any quarterback walking into.  Seriously look at the last 5-10 years of top 10 picked QB's and find me an equivalent....I would bet it is next to impossible.

That said we have improved our OLine tremendously on paper, improved our WR room by 1 significant piece, hopefully improved our scheme and culture tremendously - TE, RB, and WR still need major work to even be average weapons in the passing game.  If we hit well on a WR and TE we will know for sure who Bryce is gonna be and what his potential is.  Is he Tua or is he prime Russ?  No matter what we have to hit consistently in drafts going forward - in all aspects - that is what has held this team down for a decade or more.

On 4/7/2024 at 11:34 AM, MHS831 said:

 

If he is released, the roster is bare with four WRs.  That would suggest that we need 2, especially since Thielen is old and will probably not be a Panther in 2025, Smith-Marsett has like 8 catches as a WR and is on a one-year contract, and Dionte Johnson is on a one-year deal.  That leaves Mingo (hold applause).

For that reason, I think we should grab 2 WRs in this draft--one in the second, and another later on.  If he does well, re-sign Johnson.  If Mingo develops, we'd still have work to do at WR in 2025.

I agree we are looking at 2 more WR - but the FA pool is still pretty stocked since we are talking about WR4/5.  Could get away with drafting 1 and a FA

6 hours ago, OldhamA said:

Is this 6 seconds after the ball has been snapped when he's missed all of his reads again 'cos he can't see over the OLine?

No that was pretty rare - this was the standard where the defense blew through the tissue paper OLine off the snap and the WR's still needed 8 seconds to find 2 inches of separation

I think this board needs to put more respect on Mock Draft Simulators - they are VERY accurate.  Look at this one I did recently.  Keep in mind every trade I made was offered to me and I did not have forced trades on.  Clearly the algorithms are solid:

I also picked up 16 more picks in next year's draft ranging from rounds 2-7.

32 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Getting sacked/tackled by guys just shoving him with one hand or finger was a problem if I recall correctly 

Yeah cause this 75% of the snaps