TheMostInterestingMan

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Signficantly better than anything Cam had? Cam's rookie receiving option were better than what we have now. 

89, Olsen, Shockey, Lafell, LEGATRON!!!!!, 2 pro bowl RBs? 

Okay sure. I guess I mean throughout most of Cams career. Smitty and Olsen were gone very quickly. And then the talent nosedived. Ted Ginn Jr, Lafell, KB (who was actually great before his mother passed in fairness) 

I’m forgetting so many names right now, but that’s my point really. Cams WRs for most of his career were remarkably forgettable.

36 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The Texans need Will Anderson to be Von Miller 2.0 for that trade to be worth it.

Yeah and he’s just not. He will be a really solid player but never a star player imo. And that’s what you better be getting to give up all that. I would be fuming if I was a Texans fan. 

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We have bandaids, I'm not sure we have any long-term solutions. Thielen is 32 and is on the decline. Chark is talented but is usually injured. TMJ will hopefully develop. On paper, this is definitely a bottom 10 NFL WR corps. Hurst is a former 1st round bust who is knocking on the door of 30. Three teams in five years basically putting up good backup caliber stats. I honestly think we significantly overpaid him.

Look, I agree that these aren’t the weapons to serve BY throughout his Panthers career, but I think the signings show intent. This is a significantly better WR group than Cam ever had while he was here to be honest.

The problem with just being determined to get him weapons is the value left in this draft. There’s genuine day 1 starters on the defensive side of the ball where we need help. You have very few players on the offensive side of value other than OG. Michael Mayer probably is value now, but the WR class in the draft is just pretty weak. At this point you are looking at Downs, Mingo and Hyatt and they are probably all more 3rd round level talents in your average draft class. 
 

In short, I think the bandaid is fine this year. Of course we need to get BY weapons but I would rather get a 1st round talent on defense at 39 than a 3rd round talent on offense. I think we can make due this year with what we have.

Though to be honest, I would REALLY love Torrence or Avila. My ideal pick would be one of those guys. I’m all for just going ahead and making this offensive line the best we have ever had.

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I really hope we don't make the Cam mistake again. "Oh, this guy is so good he doesn't need any help so we can spend all our resources on defense now!"

I mean we signed two WRs a TE and a RB. The reality is we have bigger needs on defense right now. We are changing our scheme and could use CB, LBs and a 3-4 DE. 
 

On offense, OG is the biggest need now and it’s not really a huge one. We don’t have a star WR but there isn’t one in the draft and we have a solid group heading into the season. TE is possible but I think defense is where we would be better off going in general 

11 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Actual coaches!

 

The relief these guys must feel going out there and not having to hear “let me tell you how we used to do things at Temple!”

25 minutes ago, Eric4280 said:

Here comes the unnecessary hate crap.

Yep. He’s last on my list of the top 4 prospects but the hate people are showing for everyone that isn’t “their guy” is getting annoying 

14 minutes ago, onmyown said:

Everyone is excited, that’s a given, but only fools aren’t skeptical given our owner.

The story was “look, he kept Rhule. He’s prideful and he won’t learn” and then he fires Rhule. Then it was “great,  the interim did well. He’s gonna hire him full time” then he turns around and hires a staff that has been universally presided as incredible. Then it was “he’s getting involved in the picks” yet the GM insists he is letting the coaches make the decision on the pick. And it’s well documented he wanted Justin Fields but ultimately let the staff make the decision…

So I’m sorry, but I’m just not really seeing the evidence right now. Has he made mistakes early on? Sure. But had he turned around and shown growth? To me he absolutely has. Again, you can latch on to the mistakes and reject evidence that he’s learned from it or you can give him another chance with what is kind of revered as one of the best coaching staffs assembled right now and enjoy things for a minute 

2 minutes ago, PanthersGOATFan336 said:

Ty for your opinion I'll do with it what I do with the other huggers on here

 

Pretty much the reputation I’m referring to. You’re blocked, cheers

1 minute ago, PanthersGOATFan336 said:

Too much meat isn't good for you 

So shrimp and chicken on a Sunday is unhealthy? Did you know my diet is such now that I eat meat once a week and it’s usually fish? Did you know my diet is about 80% rice and fruit?

But thanks for the health advice. People may listen to it more if your reputation on this site wasn’t that of an immature 15 year old my friend. 

9 minutes ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

https://time.com/2798972/studies-show-cat-people-are-smarter-than-dog-people/

Since we gotta turn this into a cat thing… just saying 

Perhaps we should start using this as the benchmark rather than S2 scores, no? Lol

https://time.com/2798972/studies-show-cat-people-are-smarter-than-dog-people/

Since we gotta turn this into a cat thing… just saying 

10 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

Cat guy

Fun fact: Panthers are in the cat family 

Just now, stan786 said:

We honestly could have taken Levis and I would have convinced myself we've had a great Offseason and this staff is going to get the best out of him.

It's the first time in years I've had a glimpse of optimism or confidence in what is going on in Carolina and I'm going to enjoy it for all its worth. I do prefer Bryce personally but whatever guy we went with I'd have been open minded with just because I trust the guys we have developing our QB.

I cant imagine being this upset over getting a guy so many places have ranked both their #1 QB and a Top 3 prospect. Cant wait for this weekend.

I’m right there with you. This team is on an awesome trajectory currently. I’m going to soak that in. Those being miserable at it presumably will never be happy as a sports fan. 

1 hour ago, chknwing said:

mock based purely  off of visits

 

1.Bryce Young QB Alabama

39.B.J. Ojulari DE LSU

93.Zach Evans RB Ole Miss

114. Jonathan Mingo WR Ole Miss

132. Charles Jones WR Purdue

145. Chandler Zavala OG NC State

I really don’t see the need for a RB in the 3rd at all. That will be fairly disappointing.

1 hour ago, onmyown said:

I prefer results. The man who hired/retained all those dumbass blunders is still here calling the shots. We are literally hoping he has learned, at the expense of fans, what other successful owners (and even arm chair GMs) already knew.

He is not backing off, so it’s clear he does not think he’s the issue, yet he is the common denominator. San Fran learned to back off and shockingly, they have success. We have to bank on Tepper either realizing that or actually call shots correctly.

Jury still out for me. We are undefeated off season champions since 1995. I’ll get exited when this team (and ownership) actually looks like it belongs in the NFL, which hasn’t happens for over half a decade.

Ah yes. The eternal hard ass look. Very cool. 
 

36 minutes ago, frankw said:

I like Chark but he's been battling the injury bug as of late and signed a one year deal. I want another promising rookie WR. And hopefully by the midway point of the season we're talking about how nice of a weapon Terrace Marshall JR is.

I think a late rounder is where we most likely target it. I don’t actually expect us to go WR at 2 or 3 unless we really like drops. But there’s a few pretty intriguing options in the later rounds I’ve been looking into that could be pretty exciting 

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Again it should factor little to nothing. Certainly not as much as it is garnering until there is more data. If we use it to sway us to Young it better be right or it did more harm than good if Stroud ends up the better QB in a few years.

I think this is where we ultimately disagree. But that’s not a personal attack on you by any means. I just think it is a very valuable tool and you do not. That’s fair enough. Half the league seems to think it’s very valuable and the other does not. So it isn’t surprising half this board would be the same. But my original point for posting this was NOT to defend its validity. It was to inform people of what it actually measures. Beyond that, we can have our different views on its outcome. I think it’s a very valuable tool and you think it’s more or less useless. Fair enough. I don’t think less if you personally for your opinion on it. We just see this differently. 

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Not being hostile simply pointing out obvious flaws in placing much stock in this test at this point. The problem is not in using it as one factor among another things in evaluating a QB, but like in the case of Stroud saying based on this research he stands little chance to be successful despite film of games showing the opposite.  As someone who administered cognitive and performance related tests for 30 years I know the limits of what they actually measure versus what they claim.

I agree that it’s silly to dismiss Stroud simply based on these scores. However I think if I have a similar grade on two prospects, or even three and I sit down and we go over where we rank them and it’s a stalemate, this can quickly become a useful tool.
 

So pros on Stroud are he’s got a prototypical frame and the most accurate arm in the draft. He’s taken lots of snaps under center in college. He’s well liked by his teammates. He has shown the ability to move fluidly in the pocket.

Cons on Stroud. He rarely has to go through his progressions in college. There were times he didn’t seem to be fully engaged on the field. He doesn’t appear to have elite running ability or elusive traits in the open field. He sometimes seemed to lock on to his first read when it wasn’t there.

Then we can do Bryce. We all know the pros and cons so I’m not writing it all out again. But let’s say there is a stalemate. At this point the S2 suddenly holds a lot of water. 
 

“I can’t decide between these two guys. They both of very different sets of strengths and weaknesses and both draw us to similar conclusions. I like Strouds accuracy but I like Young’s ability to keep his eyes down field while escaping pressure. I like Strouds arm strength but I like Young’s ability to go through his progressions. Nothing seems to separate them… except one glaring difference. One scored significant higher on this test than the other”

My argument is it’s a tool: I’m not saying you are invalid or that your questions are invalid. I’m not saying that the S2 is being overhyped or under hyped. I admit that I personally can see a great benefit in its correlation to talent evaluation and I’m coming around to being a believer. I also knows that reportedly only half the teams in the league currently value it and the others aren’t very interested in it.

But in this context, I think I it can help decide on a prospect when you are otherwise torn. It may be different if we hear news that asteroid actually scored a 70 even. But scoring 18 shows a massive drop off to all the other top prospects. Enough that if I’m torn between to and one scores as the absolute best in the S2 and the other scores amongst the absolute worst, that likely guides me towards my decision. 

Just now, rebelrouser said:

This is my fear. Stroud has a built in ceiling meaning he will be a decent starter or back up and that's it. You don't trade the farm for that.  

I’m not sure that’s a fair assessment either or that I agree with that necessarily. But I do think it’s the potential concern. Each one of these QBs could flop. And each of these top prospects could be long time starters. Again, this is just another piece of the puzzle in the end. But having a significantly lower score than his peers, if the leak is accurate, is a warranted concern. 

10 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

I feel like I really need to make a thread debunking s2, why it’s medically unethical, why it’s incredibly misleading, and why it’s a scam. 

Furthermore, would you say this is unethical or a scam?

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/22306-cognitive-test

Just now, electro's horse said:

I feel like I really need to make a thread debunking s2, why it’s medically unethical, why it’s incredibly misleading, and why it’s a scam. 

Go for it. Would love to hear that. Would love to hear you explain how it’s unethical anymore than the combine is unethical. Players aren’t being forced to take it. But teams are clearly going to use it. 
 

Would love to hear why it’s misleading. The tests they use have been around for a very long time and are still use because they provide information about ones cognitive ability. It was t created three years ago. And you can argue that what it tests isn’t critical or necessary when evaluating NFL players but that’s just your opinion rather than it being a ‘misleading’ test. If scouts feel the end as you, they won’t use it. 
 

Would love to hear why it’s a scam. Do you feel the medical community is a scam? Do you believe the universities that have used these tests are a scam? 
 

From where I’m sitting you sound like you are spewing a bunch of nonsense, but if you actually can prove me wrong on all these points then I’m genuinely open to hearing what you have to say.

1 minute ago, WhoKnows said:

I get what the S2 is testing, but I’ll add something on QBs that I don’t think gets much discussion as an actual skill. Accuracy. Young is accurate and did well on the S2. Richardson supposedly did well on the S2 as well but isn’t accurate. All the talk about Richardson having the highest ceiling bothers me because arm strength and running ability and even S2 field vision will not make up for not throwing the ball where it needs to be. Darnold had some egregiously bad decisions and Richardson has a lot of bad throws. Scoring well on the S2 can help a QB (like Purdy) find that wide open guy but as we saw in the playoffs Purdy found the right guy at times but just didn’t hit them. He couldn’t always work around a situation where the opponent was a solid playoff team that didn’t let Kittle or others run wide the fug open.

I’m excited by Young because he was accurate and placed the ball well while watching him play. Add in the S2 high score makes me think he’ll see the field well, find the open guys and also hit them to get good results.

Again, I think you just have to use this as another metric for evaluation. Having a high S2 doesn’t mean you’ll be a good QB. You still must be accurate. You still must have a strong arm. You still must be a good leader. But having a bad S2 likely could be cause for concern. Because maybe you have all of the above, but if you can’t process the information quickly, you may fail as well.

S2 doesn’t indicate whether a player will be good or bad. It’s just another useful piece of information when making a decision on a player. It feels like everyone is acting like I’m saying “oh you think he will be good cause he had a high score? What’s your evidence?”

I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying it’s another useful piece of information when evaluating the players in the draft. That’s all.

5 minutes ago, pantherj said:

Has anyone else read that the CJ S2 score was false? Just made up and his real score has not been released?

Both are kinda speculation at this point. The results haven’t been released to the public but has been released to inquiring teams. So either the journalists leaking this info are making up numbers (which seems odd they would make up numbers with such a disparity) or they are getting their info from people they’ve talked to within the organizations that are privy to the information. 

54 minutes ago, PanthersGOATFan336 said:

What's the point..do tell

If you are unable to figure out on your own then I’m afraid S2 competence is the least of your worries. And you seem to just be getting cute to avoid the very obvious point that goes against your narrative.

Either the leaked scores are full of poo or they aren’t. Based on the evidence provided, which do you feel is more likely. Is this veteran journalist putting his reputation on the line over numbers he fabricated or did he get those numbers from league insiders? And if he got them from various insiders, are they are collaborating to tank Strouds stock in a league wide conspiracy or are they giving accurate information they are all privy to? 
 

This kind of simple logic seems to evade you. And there’s every chance the leak is complete BS. But he makes a valid point. Is he risking his reputation on lies he made up, is the league lying to him in a league wide conspiracy, or is there some truth to these numbers? Which is most likely? That’s a pretty simple and fair question.