iamhubby1

1 hour ago, Savoir Faire said:

Tagging a third time is 144%.  So basically, we'd could have him for 3 more years and pay about the same thing ramczyk is going to get, maybe a titch more. 

We would wind up paying him, if we franchise him 3 times, approx 52mil. So about 17mil a year. Not bad. The question becomes, how is Moton going to handle being tagged 3 times? I can't even venture a guess.

8 hours ago, Saca312 said:

This is one of my biggest takeaways seeing how this team is progressing. There is a more clear plan and idea to what the Panthers are wishing to do and a seemingly better process for it. 

So much young potential talent surrounded by coaches and a front office with a vision. This isn't Hurney and Rivera ball anymore. This is a team looking to compete in the near future and strike.

I am very optimistic with this group. Improvement is the step I want to see this team take for now. I wouldn't even missing the playoffs as a negative as long as this team proves it is more functional and cohesive as a group bursting with potential.

A clear upward trend towards the better and I am satisfied.

There are a bunch of us here in Pantherland who are excited for what lies ahead. We can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Feels good to have a brain trust we can actually trust.

I know that we still have a hill to climb. But man, it feels good knowing we are being lead by folks who look to actually be competent. 

1 hour ago, Savoir Faire said:

No

120% of this years number.

 

 

R

Yupperz. Approx 16.5 mil, and about 20mil the 3rd year.

4 hours ago, bythenbrs said:

Wish every team had a Tony Dungy type, to help with 'life coaching' and a Dave Ramsey type for basic money management.  It's not sexy but if you cared about your players, you'd find a way to do it.

They used to do a league operated Rookie Symposium. They have transitioned to a new platform that is more of the home team run program for all rookies.

https://operations.nfl.com/journey-to-the-nfl/nfl-development-pipeline/nfl-rookie-transition-program/

This link is to the NFL Operations

“This collaborative effort permits the league to educate players about the tools and resources available for a successful playing experience on and off the field,” said Troy Vincent, NFL executive vice president of football operations. “The Rookie Transition Program allows the clubs to orient all rookies to local resources and to club culture, history, leadership and expectations.”

26 minutes ago, frankw said:

What about it is inaccurate? If he is healthy we can get by for the moment but it isn't a guarantee at all. Carolina didn't think Ryan Kalil would be done as quickly as he was but at 33 that was it. Gross was done at 33 as well. That's how it goes in sports.

I'm done.

40 minutes ago, frankw said:

I don't see him as an issue or a weak link in the grand scheme. Looking at pff which is obviously loved or despised here based on which way the wind blows says he is not the same player he was in Denver. For where we are now that's okay he is serviceable for our needs. But it is a 17 game season so it is simply being realistic to point out he has missed time in the past.

First you say "Paradis is an aging temporary solution who has had struggles staying healthy."

He is 31, definitely not aging. Not anymore in the NFL. Strike one.

He has been here 3 years. definitely not temporary. Strike two.

He missed 7 games in 18, that's it. Definitely not struggling to stay healthy as you attest. Strike three. 

If you can be that wrong in one sentence. Why should I entertain any other thing you say?

Now you add that post. Way to backpedal, smooth move. Maybe not an outright lie, but you stretched the truth so much it needs ben gay.

Stick to harping on the LT spot. At least you are good at that.

1 hour ago, frankw said:

BC has the size and potential but they don't even know if he will be a guard or a tackle yet. Paradis is an aging temporary solution who has had struggles staying healthy. Then we brought in Erving who has the same concerns. Moton is the most dependable out of that group. Despite what some are saying the tag is not a real solution. Best case scenario is he moves to the left spot and they pay him accordingly. No one is fixated on you it is the other way around. If you don't want to hear things that could burst your bubble avoid the quote button then. People are going to have opinions about the offensive line and it is not going to be sunshine and rainbows until the team invests better.

Your entire post history the last few weeks has been all about LT. And I'm the one fixated. LOL I don't think you understand how this works.

So now you are making things up. Paradis played well last year, as did Miller. Teamed with Moton, the right side of our line we pretty good last year. Stick with harping over the LT spot. Cuz you seem to miss the point on anything else.

If you want to talk about anything other than LT hit me up. Otherwise, don't quote me. I am done with your continued whining about how bad we have it. And we haven't even hit Training Camp yet. Sheesh.

That second bolded one is kinda hurtful. 

1 hour ago, bythenbrs said:

Pie for 'pish paw'...

It's my grandmothers. Instead of cursing she would say pish paw. She was a little bitty thing, and when she got excited or mad. Out came the pish paw. She was something. Had to stand on a step stool to cook on the old cast iron stove. lol

1 hour ago, frankw said:

I get the logic you are trying to go with but it doesn't compute. We have invested three 1sts and two 2nds in the secondary and defensive line recently. The defense better look improved for that level of cost.

Do you remember the last time Carolina drafted an offensive lineman in the first? Jeff Otah in 2008.

I am truly sorry. But that part made me giggle. So thanks for that.

Also, take that last line out, and you would have a post that was almost positive. Then thwack. In comes the hash my mellow part. Why do you always have to bring past Panther moves into every post?

This ain't your daddy's Panthers no more.

55 minutes ago, frankw said:

I get the logic you are trying to go with but it doesn't compute. We have invested three 1sts and two 2nds in the secondary and defensive line recently. The defense better look improved for that level of cost. Do you remember the last time Carolina drafted an offensive lineman in the first? Jeff Otah in 2008.

Your fixation with the LT position has caused you to miss some really cool things going on right now.

2 years ago this roster was bereft of talent. So much so, folks thought we would be fighting for the #1 pick.

This year? If Sam plays even halfway decent. Most folks think we can compete.

BChris is a day 1 starter. Moton, Miller, and Paradis are as well. Throw in Tremble, and that is a pretty good start. But hey, fixate on the one spot that is still a mess. 

Maybe try looking at some of the good going on here? We really are very close to being a good team. We've got some really talented kids to build around. This new regime has us trending upward. And for a lot of us. We like what the FO is putting down.

It ain't perfect. But it is better run team than we have seen in a long, long time.

Well I'm done. Go fixate with someone else. All this negativity is starting to harsh my mellow.

2 hours ago, CarolinaLivin said:

I think what we did was the right move. We needed depth and multiple players to improve the roster and fill holes. I think the splash moves will come next year. May only be one or two, but may be all we need. We have several players that have all the tools needed to make a jump this year. 

"Change of Scenery" is a cliche' because it can be true. Folks who pish paw Sam's ability to bounce back may be well served to remember this.

I love this part.   "The Southern California product was highly touted when he entered the league, but was unable to find much success with the floundering Jets. He is a perfect “change of scenery” candidate, especially under Brady’s tutelage. If he can play to his full potential and become what he was expected to be when he was drafted with the third overall pick in 2018, then the rest of the NFC South may have some catching up to do."

1 minute ago, frankw said:

We can skip the back and forth theatrics this go around. Let me ask you straight up. Are you concerned about left tackle? There is nothing wrong with being apprehensive at the sight of Carolina repeating the same approach that has given us one good season of left tackle play (2015) in a decade.

You keep harping on past Panther sins. Then projecting those sins on the present regime. Don't fret, you are no where near the only Huddler doing this.

Take a look at the CB room. Last year it was not very talented. This year it is a team strength. How come you never bring this fact up as a positive for the new regime? Because it is not a negative per chance?

The Dline 2 years ago was abysmal. This year it is a Beast. That is all on this regime. 

We have no idea what the Oline is going to look like game 1. I will wait to decide if I am angry, or pleasantly surprised, once I see how they play. 

1 hour ago, frankw said:

Carolina was a pushover on their last two big money contracts. Now they want to play hardball with their best offensive tackle when they have a patchwork offensive line already? Not a great look.

Slow your role a bit there grasshopper. There is a new Sheriff in town. This Sheriff has yet to handle any big time contracts. Maybe we can, oh I don't know, let him deal with this one first before we decide if he lives or dies? 

Blame the past regime for their ineptitude, then project that onto the new regime, then call it a bad look. lol You can't make this shitt up. Well apparently you can, but wow, just wow.

Also, I really liked how you just know we are playing Hard Ball with Moton. Making shitt up to prove a point. Unfortunately, that happens a good deal here in Huddle-Land.

If I could bottle Patience, I'd sell it on the Huddle. Man, we'd all be living in the Bahamas'.

43 minutes ago, L-TownCat said:

I don’t think it would be necessarily a good thing if they were.  That would most likely mean poor play or injury ahead of them.  I hope a group emerges and solidifies in camp.  Then pray they can stay healthy.

BChris is going to start. There is also a chance the Moore overtakes Paradis. So yeah, there could be at least 2 rookies on our line at years end.

I would like to add that Brown, if he is committed to the game has the talent to push for a spot as well. 

However unlikely, there is still a chance that all 3 wind up starting for us.

That was in response to Brooks article on 5 most underrated players in the NFL. He had Hasaan Riddick at 5 by the way.

Also, Brandt had his article on 5 most versatile players. He had Chinn, and CMC on his list.

Panther players getting some National Love. Hubby likey.

1 hour ago, SBBlue said:

I agree.  We need to pay good players to stay instead of always bargain basement shopping.  That said, Gettleman thought he was  tying down a probowl level LT with Mat Kalil...instead he got swindled.

I think we finally have a Brain Trust we can actually trust. Draft well, and pay your stars. We have the draft well part down so far. Let's hope they are as proficient in the later, as they seem to be in the former.

The Moton deal will give us our first real glimpse into how they plan on treating their stars. Although, Moton is early in the process of figuring out who we are as a team. It is still an important step.

As to Gman. He fooled me at the start. But, the longer it went, the harder it became to hide that much stink.

1 hour ago, saX man said:

I don't place the hiearchy of spending LT-1 and then the rest these days.  We run a spread offense and he's a perfect guy for us.  Bred in house.  This is the moment where you decide to really make him a Panther long term or not.  I'd love to see it and at least lock something up on this OL.  Discounting Paradis as the likely center, all other spots are up for grabs right now.  

Moton is worth 14.75 in my book and it's totally worth it.  I mean he's a 26 year old top-5 guy at his position group.  I'd like to see us get this done.

Next step would be identifying a long term Center and LT.  Maybe we got lucky and have some now.  There's finally some promising pieces at the least:

Taylor Moton RT/LT, Brady Christensen RG/RT, Dennis Daley G/T, & David Moore G/C could be a good group.  And John Miller is only 27.  Wouldn't mind locking him up longer term if he shows well for us again.  

Three big "ifs" could make or break the unit:

-If Dennis Daley proves the last 1.5 years was an injury aberration

-If Christensen proves to be a plug and play (wherever that is)

-If Moore (UDFA) or Brown (6th) surprise.

Those are my biggies to watch for beyond these vets we brought in like Erving and the Elf guy. 

Here's how I would do it. 

LT-Moton

LG-Let the best man win

C-Paradis to start. Moore to groom

LG-Miller

RT-BChris

But that could leave a hole at LG, at worse case

Or

LT-May the best man win

LG-BChris

C-Paradis to start, Moore to groom

RG-Miller

RT-Moton

But that could leave a hole at LT. Although, we do have Tremble to help

Man, I love this time of year.

1 hour ago, onmyown said:

Every super bowl contender in the last 20 years has had a top oline except 2-3 examples in which case had an outlier HOF/HOF season QB (both Mannings for example. Or in very rare examples, the oline went from crap (Giants) somehow transformed into elite from regular season to post. The only other consistent commonality is a top defense. That includes QB play (which is #3).

According to history, you do in fact need a top oline even before elite QB play.

Fact of the matter is - a team with elite lines/trenches will always be in the mix to compete in the playoffs despite the rest of the team.

Just a few posts ago you got snarky because I posted the wrong year for quickest QB release. 

Now you are going to do this? "Every super bowl contender in the last 20 years has had a top oline except 2-3 examples in which case had an outlier HOF/HOF season QB"? You got a link to this information?

We get it. You can't be satisfied until we have an elite Oline. But you don't have to make things up to make that point.

2 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

Without a pass rush, the coverage doesn't matter. 

Conversely, without the coverage, the pass rush doesn't matter.

1 hour ago, SizzleBuzz said:

It's not a "holdout" until they start sacrificing game checks --period.   

Stop w/ the whiny "hurt feelings" BS.  

Negotiating from a position of strength by using all the tools at your disposal in no way constitutes "treating players like crap".

Hell sounds like you want Hurney back

lol Whatever you say. I'm done. 

4 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

 

Correct.  At some point hopefully a deal that's fair to both parties can be worked out...but if not keep tagging him.  I'd be interested to see the 3-year aggregate tag-numbers vs. a "4 or 5 year contract"...do you have them?

On the Tag. If my math is correct, which I am not guaranteeing. We pay Moton 13.754m this year, 16.753m next year, and 23.106m after that. For a total of 53.614m. All guaranteed. That's an average of 17.871m.

I see where at RT, Moton has the 4th highest avg. salary this year. 

7 minutes ago, onmyown said:

Uh, this is false. Do you guys even look into what you’re posting? 

Rivers, Rothlisburger, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Foles, Tua, even Dwayne Haskins and a couple others…

If we say at least 400 attempts (reasonable starter #), would just be Rivers and Rothlisburger and a tie with Burrow and only .03 seconds away from our very own TB.

I don’t know where that whole ‘teams shoot for less that 2 seconds came from…literally not happened in history. The fastest in the league for 2020 is Ben at 2.3 and the rest are more toward 3. 
 

On a side note with 400 attempts, TB was the 4th fastest in the NFL.  Two above him him had a top oline. Brady - 5, Rivera - 7. Ben really did some good stuff as his line was ranked right before TBs at 17.  Should really think on that and how it relates to how atrocious an oline had to be to tank below average with a top 5 quickest release in the NFL.
 

I will state for the record that I was looking at 15 by mistake. So I looked at 20, and it is indeed that Steelers QB. Coming in at 2.29. 

So yes, I did look at what I was posting. Just didn't look close enough. I will endeavor to be more accurate in the future

3 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

The risk of "losing him" anytime in the next 3 seasons is exactly 0.00%.  No need to fret about it.

 

I'd prefer they be happy but certainly wouldn't let some pouting by the player affect the negotiations.

Belichick consistently gets the best contracts for his team and it's because he has a long track record of being ruthless --- those on the other side of a negotiation know he's not one to be trifled with and doesn't GAF if a player pouts or not.  

 

No idea what you're talking about.

 

Don't care about the bitching, f-em.

The hold-out narrative is a false narrative.  The only guy dumb enough to actually do it was L. Bell and it worked out horribly for him.  The money is too big now...

If a player dogs it because he got tagged he's a quitter...and I'm not aware any who have done so. 

(and doing so would only hurt their ability to negotiate going forward)

 

Okay folks, quit fretting. Moton will be staying here for at least the next 3 years. Sheeew, that's a relief.

Bellicheat had Brady. That was his secret strategy. He got rid of players, instead of paying them. Because for years, Brady had the highest salary in the league. Let's see how that works now that Brady is gone.

Players hold out all the damm time. Hellz, Billicheat is dealing with one right now, so are the Cheeseheads.

Treat players like crap, and it gets out. But hey, if you want to run your team that way. Have at it. But you had better build a winner, or players will avoid you.

Who's that kid with the pretty girl? Hellz, who's that pretty girl?

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Quote what you have an issue with. Good grief, man. Your homerism triggers you into irrationality and borderline delusions.

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

What are you talking about? If he's such a great player on a contract that adequately reflects his play, what's the problem? Why would we be discussing potentially releasing him? It's almost as if you're coming around to the opinions you've been so diligently arguing against.

You obviously did not read what @Icegewrote. If taking 10 minutes of your time is asking too much.

I'm done with you. I let you get under my skin. That is on me. I will be going now. Go insult someone else please