WOW!!

17 hours ago, carpanfan96 said:

I mean tape not highlights. From pre snap to the throw, the processing and football iq is easily seen. It's the mechanics breakdown on throws that causes the majority of his issues 

Yeah got you..

okay addition.. 

Some ppl are valuing 3rd party views of a event they weren’t actually at and “prototype”  measurements over actual film, numbers and performances..

4 hours ago, OldhamA said:

I wouldn't say he's never carried a team, but I'd imagine he could win a Junior College National Championship at his current age - which is what Newton was doing at this point in his career.

Newton was a special player, but he never developed.

So what team did he carry or made the players around him on then.. Because again Cam has done that at every level..

Draft season 

 
every year

ppl let underware workouts, media hype, and potential undervalue actual performance…

Thats why some teams talk themselves into taking Trevon Walker over Adian Hutchinson..

On 4/12/2023 at 10:12 AM, OldhamA said:

Newton was a run-first QB in college. That carried over to the NFL.

Richardson looks to pass first.

Cam was also a player who could carry a team which also carried over to the NFL.. 

Richardson hasn’t shown that at any level of football..

I’m done with this argument.. At this point dude’s will claim they saw something on tape that really isn’t there and they will give excuses for things that they don’t do for others and they are letting workouts in underware overvalue actual productions, actual achievements and actual numbers.. 

Like I said in another thread only thing that stoping Richardson for being number 1.. Is the 3 years he spent in college… He could have just showed up to the combine and had some of you drooling about potential and rode that better.. Then actually having film out there.. 

Leon Sancastle anyone

2 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

I think some people are underestimating how much Josh Allens rise has had an effect on the league. Every team wants to find the next guy like that. A qb with maxed out physical traits/ability thats able to harness everything together. Now you have a powerhouse of a QB that does it all....AR screams that more than anybody. Any team that needs a QB is going to consider him, and not just briefly....hard look.

Asked Trey Lance and the 49ers about trying to find the next Allen.. At some point the Allen thing might be a outlier and not the norm..

I know this has been posted.. But CJ, Bryce and AR was in this.. Same Class.. CJ barley got a invite and was ranked low early in the competition.. CJ just kept grinding and won the whole thing.. Actually beat out Bryce for starter on the same team.. They both went on to college stardom.. Now they are battling for number 1 pick..

Who you got?? 
 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/drew-sanders/32005341-4e29-0589-5c62-ee6a75833b2f
 

6’4 235lb Who has played both OLB/edge Rushers and ILB - better outside 

Vs

6’5 249lb

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jack-campbell/32004341-4d36-4731-433d-b35acfc680bc

ILB in a 4-3 most of his college career.. Doesn’t have the experience of a olb in a 3-4 but could possibly learn with his body type.. 

 
A guy who can play inside right away or a guy who can be a outside edge right away.. Who you got??

Joe Burrows is older then Sam Darnold.. 

He put up that amazing season at 23- 24 years old..

CJ and Bryce were putting up Hesiman numbers at 18 and 19 years old..

just saying…

1 minute ago, OldhamA said:

I'm pooing your tone. It stinks. 

Okay!!!! 
It’s all good bro ..lmao

@OldhamA you can disagree and poo on my post.. It’s cool just stating fact bro.. lol

8 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

Stroud is not Burrow (out of College at least) and it's a really unfair comparison for CJ. You're setting him up to fail if you think that he can produce anything like in the NFL.

Burrow threw for 60 TDs his Senior year (that's 19 more than Stroud as a Junior). He was utterly ridiculous in College - and both were surrounded by 'first day' NFL talent at the skill positions. 

Really .. You know why it’s more of a unfair comparison..

CJ 3 years younger 

CJ didn’t  have to transfer form OState 

CJ produced faster and was a better player in college longer then Burrows who didn’t blow up until his 5th year in college..

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/joe-burrow-1.html
 

vs 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/cj-stroud-1.html
 

CJ putting up Hesiman numbers as a Sophomore 

Burrows didn’t until he was a Senior at a different school..

So yeah you might be right..

CJ isn’t Burrows (he might be better) .. lol

Just now, OldhamA said:

You're falling into the trap of pigeonholing Richardson as an athlete that doesn't know how to play QB. 

Pryor, Vick, Young and Jackson all won with their legs first, their arm second. Richardson is an inexperienced pocket passer that just happens to run a 4.4.

I’m not falling for nothing.. I’m looking at reality..

And facts check.. 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/lamar-jackson-1.html

Lamar Jackson was a better passer coming out of Louisville then Richardson is now.. More experience play in a pro offense.. So do some research 1st..

Again I’ve watch the tape he isn’t the passer that CJ and Bryce are and he might not never be.. Ppl want to keep making AR talent god giving and CJ and Young talent is learned.. 
Okay ..  At some point this has to start being a on the field advantage and right now it isn’t.. And at some point we have to start looking at Pocket passers getting better at being pocket passers as upside as well because on the field it’s been Winning more consistently and longer..

3 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

It's not just an athlete. He has the biggest arm in this draft. His accuracy isn't as bad as people make it out to be. He just needs to clean up his footwork much like Cam. That's why his accuracy isn't that elite. His footwork will fix that issue.

Got it.. Not the point I was making or the conversation but thank you for telling me something I already know.. 

You might also want to add in experience and reading defenses as something he needs to work on as well.. Nothing that can’t be fix.. But again the point is.. I don’t want to have to fix a player with some preciveid upside based on athleticism.. When there are 2 better prospects not getting credit for them having upside in a more tangible way…

12 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

AR likely wont be our pick, but im guessing he's gonna end up on the Seahawks and with Pete he is going to coach him up real good. They already have another unicorn at WR with Metcalf. They are going to be a team to watch in these next few years. 

AR has all the potential, it's going to be about his willingness to be coached. If he gets that part right he's going to be a problem in the NFL.

Not saying he doesn’t.. Not saying he won’t..
I just don’t agree with the more upside thing anymore just because you’re a better athlete..

Again I use to be the better athlete teach him how to be a QB and we will dominate guy..

Im just not seeing that opinion work like I thought it would by now..

5 minutes ago, Varking said:

I can only speak on Cam because context matters in his scenario. I’d need to know who else you want compared and if I’ve watched them enough I could provide context to their scenarios too. 

Pryor, Vick, VY, Lamar Jackson, even Josh Allen.. 

All super athletic QB’s who have become better passers coming out of college (except Pryor and VY) but aren’t having the success of lesser athletic QB who seen more for their passing ability..

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Just be honest. If all their QBs hit their athletic ceiling who has the most potential?

I'm not saying to draft AR over Stroud and Young. I don't have enough info to say I'd do that.

I'm just saying if he has what it takes between the ears to maximize his athletic potential he's gonna be the best QB out of the bunch.

Using your logic, you would've ran away from Josh Allen. Hell, at that time I would have too. But watching how much that guy improved with better coaching and a better supporting cast changed the way I view these types of prospects. It all comes down to what you think they have between the ears and how coachable they are and how hard you think they're willing to work at their craft.

Yeah, AR has the highest potential ceiling of the bunch and I honestly don't even see it as debatable.

Being Honest I don’t know anymore!! 
 

This isn’t basketball where the biggest fastest athlete with skills makes your team a instant contender…

The biggest fastest athlete in football isn’t winning consistently..  Even when they become better passers they aren’t winning as much as the guys who are still better passers..

Add context to your question.. Is it just Allen or do I have a choice of less athletic  but better passer like Burrows??? I’m taking Burrows… He had less coaching and worse teams and has been better right???

Well agree to disagree.. I’m changing my opinion until it proves to be more of a thing.. Right now the better passers are becoming better and winning more consistently and lasting longer..

7 minutes ago, Varking said:

We didn’t build a team around Cam nor coach him to have him around long term. It’s why I can’t look back at these years without getting frustrated. Rivera is simply not a good coach. 

Cam isn’t the only example.. Again I love Cam but the point remains..

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Ron and Shula. Shula has never had another OC shot for a reason and Ron has never accomplished anything without Cam.

We had an absolute stud and rode him into the ground. It is what it is.

Cam isn’t the only example.. Vick, Pryor, VY, Randel Cuunigham, and Lamar Jackson.. There is enough of a data set to see a pattern and see more success then we have..

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They're a year older with a lot more game experience.

I'm not pounding the table for AR. I have no idea how I'd evaluate him because all the question marks all have to do with the things us fans have minimal insight into.

In just saying that yeah, there's an easy case to be made for how he becomes the best NFL QB of the bunch.

Come on man CJ and AR are 7 months apart.. and Bryce is 2 months older then CJ .. But the reason they got more experience isn’t their fault.. They all have 3 years in college.. UF sucks but AR could have left and got more experience at a different school..

Again I’m not saying I don’t understand the thought process.. I just don’t want to do it with (imo) 2 better prospects are available.. And I’m done with the better Athlete means more upside thing until it’s more proven on the field..

Let me say this..

I Love Cam.. Cam is my favorite NFL player all time and will always be my QB..

But reality is Cam was the best athlete turned QB ever and most times he was the most dominant player on the field when he played and was healthy… But we still don’t have back to back winning seasons no Super Bowl and lost to a lot of unatheltic QB teams..

3 hours ago, OldhamA said:

We made the trade to get into the QB conversation - it's pretty clear now that only Levis has a shot of being there at #9 overall and that's a hard no from me. 

We've been repeatedly told that the difference between acquiring #1 and #3 was negligible in terms of Draft capital, so we pulled the trigger.

With regards to Richardson sitting - honestly I think that's the last thing he needs. He has 13 career starts (and is THIS advanced with his pocket presence / movement, reads and anticipation) - the guy needs to play football. He's only going to learn through experience. 

You need to tweak his mechanics, but that's what the offseason and Training Camp is for. 

That’s a lie.. Where is there proof that going to 3 is the same as going to 1?? And please don’t post no stories where the team says it.. If Arizona trades out of 3 and doesn’t get the same value Chicago did then that is a lie..

And would Arizona really have wanted DJ Moore??

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He has by far the best physical tools in the draft.

He's young, he's very inexperienced, but if though the interview process you determine that you think he has what it takes mentally to develop how is he NOT the best prospect?

If you watch the games, I think you'll be surprised. His wide receivers were straight trash and they got slammed with injuries. They scored 38 points in a losing effort against Florida State when they were missing their top FIVE WRs. Whoever WR #12 was, I would've cut his ass after that game. Quite possibly the most useless game I've ever seen a player play.

Got all that cool.

He is still (watching his film) not at the level as a passers, or QB as 2 guys who are his same age.. Plain and simple..

When does becoming a better passer when you’re already good becomes upside??

When does making better athletes better passers start to bear fruit more often??

Just now, OldhamA said:

The good pocket passers that were playing on the overwhelmingly more talented team 95% of the time?

Why is that??? 
Not making less money are they??

And let’s be real.. 
Hurts (the athletic guy) had the better team in the superbowl..