Toomers

33 minutes ago, thunderraiden said:

What dead money?

9M right now. Still have Sanders, Hurst, Tuttle, DJax, Corbett, Thomas, Shaq to make decisions on. 

  So the very expensive calculator, who I was assured was a “Cap Ninja”, gets the axe? If only someone could have seen this coming? Looks like being a scapegoat will be his biggest contribution to the team. 

6 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

With that you go against your original comments.  Hurney was a key part of that roster building. Morgan was agreed upon. Jenkins was spotted by Jack & his scouts. Care to tell me who spotted Smith? It wasn't Jack & his scouts Chris Weinke was 100% Jack/Polian QB scouting model.

I hope Dan Morgan can spot the Steve Smiths & be open to backing them even with their faults as a person while steering clear of the Weinkes.

  You mean the comment that you can’t have it both ways. That’s been made very clear. I had to assume since you didn’t address any comments about the GM you were referring to.
 

You claimed he was then responsible for all that was good from 1998 forward. Also BS. I’ve given directs words from Marty while you just cherry-pick and make up whatever scenario needed. 

   And the Panthers are doing the same exact thing as back then. Just like you always do in these discussions. Pretend anything bad on a resume’ is someone else’s fault and just hope for the best. Hope is not a plan. 

11 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Did Jack report to Marty or did Marty report to Jack? Think about this one. Was Jack doing the hiring & administration of all facets of the team or simply heading up the scouting department like Dan has been doing for a few years with the Panthers? You need to go back & look at how Seifert & JR delegated responsibility to Jack & Marty.

I hope Dan is more Marty&Brandon than Jack&David.

Get a Time Machine or just make up whatever version you need to. I would say the 1st year Director of football administration was handling that part. Then a couple years building a 1-15 team. Then these are Marty’s own words about the 2001 draft….

12 minutes ago, CRA said:

The 2001 team won 1 game. 

Hurney was actually really good early on.  Drafted well and did FA well. 

Where was Marty during that season or the 3 previous to that one win season? I was just told he was responsible for the team from 1998 forward. 

10 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

He was that previous staff. He was next to Seifert. Hurney was with the team in 1998 after Polian & brought in his protégé in Beane. They took over roster building/administration under Seifert & immediately put together a 1999 contender that would lead to a SB roster including Dan Morgan. Prior to that Hurney came from the Chargers & helped lead them to a SB roster under Beathard.

Didn't realize the roster was built with Hurney while Seifert lost a competitive team with his coaching decisions & fallout with Musgrave? 

He was? So Seifert and Bushofsky just did nothing as a first year Director of football administration and a rookie in his first job rebuilt the team all on their own. They did help build a team that went 1-15 and got him the actual job. In 14 years, he made the playoffs 3 times. Without him it was 4 in 5 years. 

So everything right was Marty….and everything wrong was someone else. That’s exactly how a team winds up with a GM who helped put them in this position. 

1 minute ago, CPantherKing said:

Beane was under Hurney. Took over as interim GM in 2012. Gettleman was hired over Beane in 2013 (bad decision). Beane had to see Gettleman tear down the work he did as part of the team under Hurney since 1998. Gettleman was suppose to keep Beane around to be the eventual Panthers GM. Gettleman set up Beane & McDermott to be hired by Buffalo following the 2016 season. Guess Gettleman thought it would cement his future as Panthers GM. Gettleman had a falling out after this stunt & in a few months was fired before the 2017 training camp opened. Hurney came back but Gettlemans damage was done & the Bills profited.

4 years forced under Gettleman & 15 years under Hurney.

Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? 

5 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

You do realize Hurney put together the foundational rosters for 2 panthers eras that were in the playoffs consistently, won division titles & went to 2 SBs?

Bad GMs can't even improve a roster to get to the playoffs after the previous GMs foundation has been cleared out. Then there are the ones that ride the coattails of the previous GM & claim it as their success.

Then one can only surmise that Hurney doesn’t get credit for anything from 2002-2005. That was the previous staff he was living off of. If he gets credit for 2013-15, he doesn’t get it credit for his earlier accomplishments. Without Hurney, the Panthers went 51-29-1 with 4 playoff appearances in 5 seasons. Around those, Hurney went 23-41 the previous 4 years, and left a team in salary cap hell. Then took it back over and went 17-31 and could keep a consistent playoff team even in contention for a spot. 
 

So which is it? Can’t have both. Seems closer to neither. 

5 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

In fairness, a lot of the key players on those three in a row were picked by Hurney.  

what was Hurney record with all those players? And how much cap hell did those same teams have to overcome to have success that was easily the best run in team history. 

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

wow on pace for 64 catches and less than 1000 yards. what a hoss. and four whole touchdowns! 

his stat lines from that half season are terrible. he had two good games that pumped his stats up. The rest was mid as hell. In all of that he had only 2 touchdowns, which again goes back to my original point of why anyone would expect him of all people to make that catch. Even when he was a 1000 yard receiver his rookie year, he had horrible efficiency and led the league in drops. He's a case study for why topline stats don't mean much. like look at this it is terrible

And it's not like he did anything in buffalo either, that year or afterwards. If your only argument in his favor is that there was no one better on the roster, okay sure, but there was clearly something more going on with him that led to him being cut, and he was obviously not good enough to make dealing with him worth it. 

I have no idea what you're talking about with hurney/rhule/fitterer. Obviously hurney and fitterer never worked together. I'm guessing you also don't mean the early 2000s teams that went to the super bowl and NFC championship game. Or the hurney built teams that won the nfc south three straight years. And hurney didn't draft Benjamin or Funchess.

Should also point out that when Hurney was with Rhule, he drafted an all pro caliber DT, another guy that finished 2nd in defensive roty voting, and a good rotational defensive lineman. It was the panthers last good draft. 

You're defneding a player as necessary that the Panthers went to the super bowl without. And you're getting upset because I said a player who managed to score 2 touchdowns in 8 games, was fat and out of shape, was basically run out of the league, is going to do something he didn't do his entire career as a pro and make a clutch catch. Are you high? Do you even know what you're arguing about or did you just get offended for some reason and decide to start pressing letters on your porn box? 

fug off

Well, since you have already been owned in most things you just threw at the wall, I’ll ask when Hurney built teams won the NFC South 3 years in a row? 
 

What’s Carolina all-time record with Gettleman. What is it without? How about we compare those numbers. It’s not nearly as important as hitting one pick a year, Ws-Ls are sort of the whole point…..right? 

1 minute ago, electro's horse said:

No idea why you think kelvin Benjamin of all people would make a clutch catch. Are you actually Dave gettleman posting?

and it’s pretty clear at this point cutting KB was about more than just football. Dude was a locker room and buffet bar cancer. 

Maybe it was the 32 catches for 475 yards KB had in 8 games already that year. Easily best on the team. Leaving them comically short handed for the remaining schedule. Are you Marty Hurney posting? Trying to justify a complete mistake and put it on someone else.  What’s the teams record ever since Hurney/Ruhle/Fitterer started putting together teams? 

11 minutes ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Dave Gettleman actually had apologists here

granted he was 1000000x better than Shitterer, but still

Why would Gettleman have to be apologized for in this? He didn’t trade the best WR in a playoff run. Or make another even try to catch a football at its highest point. Like every WR has been taught since the first day they played football? 

14 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

If Cam had one other reliable receiver that playoff run, we'd have been in the Superbowl. I honestly believe that, Cam was hitting another gear against the Saints.

"The lights were bright" is the most insane excuse I've ever seen for not catching one of the most incredible passes from him.

Maybe it wasn’t such a good idea to trade their leading WR after a 5-3 start? Wonder who did that? 

11 minutes ago, t96 said:

wonder if some team in the top 10-15 picks would trade their 1st for him

7 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Just looking around the league, let's consider the true top tier pass rushers and DL.  Is Burns really comparable to any of these guys?  I just don't see it.  

TJ Watt

Myles Garrett

Trey Hendrickson

Maxx Crosby

Khalil Mack

Nick Bosa

Josh Allen

Micah Parsons

Aiden Hutchinson

Danielle Hunter

Bradley Chubb

Justin Madubuike

Hassan Reddick

 

 

 

 

Montez Sweat

Rashad Gary

Alex Highsmith

Jon Greenard

Harold Landry

K. Thibideaux

Matt Judon

Just now, pdub0702 said:

Position + Historical output.

 

Franchise tag him and trade him to a team willing to offload a first because their close to contending 

  The last big DE deal was Sweat and he only brought a 2nd. Without the contract uncertainty(because he agreed to it first) and not being a liability on at least 40% of his snaps. Now Burns doesn’t even excel in his biggest strength with a DT that had a great year. 
 

    You have to tag him which will tie up 23M in cap room whether he signs or not. Which he won’t. He would have to agree with a new team on a contract before he would sign. Why would a team give him a lot more that and give up a first when he wouldn’t be worth it if he was a FA? Knowing he is just handcuffing the cap and how much you want him gone. Why didn’t a contender come get him this year when his salary was still at 16M? 

Just now, pdub0702 said:

Tag and trade. He can still grab us a 1st. 

How? 

3 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

As with every holiday season. People are at their worse. 

 

Spending my holidays with my 80 year old mom and dad. Been running errands for them. They forget stuff. 

 

3 trips to the grocery store on December 22nd and 23rd. Every time, there were people showing their asses. It's like they can't help themselves.  

 

As with many things, I treated them with grace and mercy.  

 

Y'all should try it sometime.  

  So doing what you’re supposed to be doing, in life, makes it acceptable for you to continue with your longstanding takes that no one affiliated with the Panthers have ever made a mistake in their lives. Just like every thread where you call anyone who complains about the team as ignorant, but never give a reason why? Considering they are the worst team in NFL, who was the ignorant one? 
 

3 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

No where am I approving the actions. 

I'm just not judging him for it. 

Some of you need to get a fuging clue. 

   I was assured by posters on here that since it was a “future” 1st it was only equivalent to a 2nd round pick. How did that work out? 

15 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Bunch of judgemental bitches whom have been nothing but bitches all year long. 

Go fug your stupidity.  

13 minutes ago, RumHam said:

That's on Payton, not Wilson, who's having a good season.

1 minute ago, RumHam said:

What in the hell does that actually matter? Payton is the one costing them games right now. He's blaming Wilson, who's having a really good year, for their issues. In reality, they don't want to pay him a bonus and want him out.

If you’re blaming Peyton, then it is very relevant. If it wasn’t for all the money they owed him, Peyton would have cut him when he got hired. Wilson was a joke last year and Payton got what he could and still wants him gone.