Martin
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Posts posted by Martin
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Trai feels like the opposite of what Rhule is looking for. He wants hard working, tough, playing through injury, self motivated etc. players. The last few years Trai felt like nothing of the above. Felt like he quit a bit when he got his big contract, until then he was awesome.
I think we’ll resign Miller to a 3-year contract at a good price.
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I think he might be back as well, but as a bridge for a rookie QB. If that is the case I’m ok ish with that so we don’t have to rush the rookie.
But I’d be even more happy with another veteran QB -
I’m the same way, I continue to go back and forth between Wilson, Fields and Lance in the first round. Not interested in Mac until maybe later.
It is going to be a wild draft this year, and part of me love it.
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This is from the Athletic. Strongly recommend it, worth paying for.
Quarterbacks (6)
Trevor Lawrence, Clemson (6-foot-6, 220 pounds): In three seasons, he passed for 90 touchdowns and ran for another 18. “Rare arm talent,” said one scout. “He’s humble, a faith-based guy. He’ll handle anything being the franchise quarterback. There are a lot of people who say he’s the best quarterback to come out since Andrew Luck. Is he a product of the system? Everything that comes out of there says he really is smart. This year, he started getting his touch back. His accuracy was better.”
Lawrence went through an individual workout Feb. 12, four days before undergoing surgery to repair labrum damage in his non-throwing shoulder. Expected to be ready by mid-July. “He is a great athlete and has a strong arm,” a second scout said. “The guy has a chance to be great. But you break him down, game after game, he’s not an accurate passer. Where he has problems is inside the numbers. Inconsistent touch. Is he Josh Allen or Blake Bortles? Bortles was a big-time athlete, but he wasn’t accurate. People were all excited about size and the way Bortles could run. … The ACC is not a good league, OK? The only real competition they (Clemson) get every year is in the playoffs. He didn’t play well. Even when they beat Ohio State, he beat them running, not passing. They totally shut the guy down.”
Finished second in Heisman Trophy voting in 2020, seventh in ’19. “I’d take Joe Burrow over Trevor Lawrence,” said a third scout. “He was a better player. More of a playmaker. The ACC stinks. Everything is so easy for him. This was for three years. Now when he played LSU, Ohio State this year, Miami, Virginia Tech, there were times he had to speed up and he looked average. When you put him against other elite competition, he has not stepped up. When Deshaun Watson was there and he played Alabama two years in a row, that guy was by far the best player on the field. A superstar. I never saw that with Trevor Lawrence. On designed things he can run, but if he has to quickly get out of trouble, he does not do that well. If he threw for 300 yards in a game, 250 of it would be just the quick design of the offense. Their coordinator (Tony Elliott) is amazing.”
Zach Wilson, Brigham Young (6-foot-2, 210 pounds):Three-star recruit. “He will not be the first pick in the draft, but he should be,” one scout said. “Love him. He’s just a natural. He just has the movement, the looseness, the throwing from all angles, the jumping around in the pocket. His release is quick as hell. He can throw the ball. He is a nifty, elusive type in the pocket. He can run a little bit.” Battled injuries as the starter in 2018 and ’19, and underwent surgeries to repair a labrum and hand. Vastly improved in 2020 with an NFL passer rating of 138.2, up from 84.9 in 2019.
Some scouts worry that his slight frame might lead to durability issues. “How big is he?” asked one. “He’s only going to be like 205 (pounds). He may be only 6-(foot)-1. He’s been spoiled a little bit, too.” A fourth scout described him as a combination of Kyler Murray and Patrick Mahomes. Retorted another scout: “There’s a vast difference (to Mahomes). The physical skills of throwing the football, he’s not even close to humming the ball like Patrick. I don’t know if he’s innately competitive and tough as Patrick. Patrick’s probably smarter, too.”
Justin Fields, Ohio State (6-foot-3, 228 pounds): Spent his freshman season at Georgia before transferring and becoming a two-year starter. “He’s a modern-day RPO quarterback,” said one scout. “He’s a naturally accurate ball thrower and the ball gets out of his hands, too. He’s not a runner like Lamar (Jackson), but he’s way better than Jalen Hurts was. He will have to learn progressions. Very athletic. Very cool demeanor. Plus, he’s sturdy.”
Led the Buckeyes to a 1-2 record in the College Football Playoff. “Love his makeup, the playmaking, his competitiveness, the movement,” a second scout said. “He’s poised. He stepped up in the big games. He’s just not a quick processor in the pocket. He’s more methodical. That’s a worry. He had the streak in the Indiana game: ‘What is this guy doing?’” Passed for 67 TDs and ran for another 19. “He is one of the top athletes (at quarterback) of all time,” a third scout said. “Best thing Fields does is throw the deep ball. But is he Jameis Winston? That’s who I see. I see the best quarterback in the draft on one play, and on the next play, I see a guy that makes stupid mistakes. Throws off his back foot a lot. Has a lot of balls tipped. He’s a first-rounder, but I wouldn’t take him until the bottom (of the round).”
Passer rating was 127.6. “He played his worst game in the Big Ten Championship (game) against Northwestern, yet they still found a way to win,” said a fourth scout. “People are saying they don’t even belong there (in the playoff), and he plays a damn near perfect game against Clemson. In the national championship, he carried them. What would be ideal for him would be to go somewhere and not have to play the first year. But the physical talent is so wow, they’re going to see that in practice and say, ‘This guy has to play.’ There needs to be a tremendous amount of growth, which I think he is capable of.”
Ohio State’s Justin Fields. (Tim Fuller / USA Today)Mac Jones, Alabama (6-foot-2½, 217 pounds): Started the final four games of 2019 for an injured Tua Tagovailoa, then went all the way in ’20 for the national champions. “They may have had the best offense this year in the history of college football, but Joe Burrow had a great supporting cast, too,” said one scout. “He is totally amazing when you break him down. Disciplined person, excellent work ethic, goal-oriented. He has a feel (for the rush). The great ones are not big-time runners. Poised, confident. I think he’ll probably go middle of the first.”
Completed a record 77.4 percent of his passes in 2020. “He could be the steal of the bunch,” said a second scout. “Nobody’s saying, ‘Hey, he’s this guy,’ but there are some Tom Brady comparisons.” Countered a third scout: “How can anyone compare him to Brady? I wouldn’t compare anybody to Tom Brady. Ever. How many guys with similar tools failed? If this guy’s the next Brady, trade your next seven first-round picks. Give up your head coach. Trade your owner.” His passer rating of 143.1 in 2020 left his career mark at 138.2. “When I watched him, I said this was A.J. McCarron all over again,” a fourth scout said. “The offense. The players around him. He’s got a slow delivery. He labors in his movements. If he’s in rhythm and everything is working for him, he’s a machine. I just question everything about his natural talent, his playmaking, his ability to face pressure and make plays.”
Practiced at the Senior Bowl but missed the game because of an ankle injury. “Honestly, I wasn’t very impressed with him at the Senior Bowl,” said a fifth scout. “I just didn’t think he stood out at all. He stood out in a bad way. He didn’t look very strong. He didn’t look very athletic. He just didn’t look like a starter you want in the NFL.”
Trey Lance, North Dakota State (6-foot-4, 226 pounds): Redshirted in 2018, started 16 games for the FCS national champions in ’19 and started the Bison’s only game in ’20. “He’s really talented,” one scout said. “I’m not going to say he throws it better than Trevor Lawrence, but he definitely throws it better than Zach Wilson and as well as (Justin) Fields arm strength-wise. Josh Allen was more talented, but a year ago Lance was a much more efficient player. Josh threw interceptions in college, especially against good defenses. Lance definitely fits the mold of what you want to look for. The natural, God-given ability, he has it.”
Posted a passer rating of 130.1 in 2019 while running for 1,100 yards and 14 TDs. “He’s a better runner than Lawrence and the same level as Fields,” said a second scout. “He’s an aggressive runner. That’s the problem. He takes on people all the time. Physically, he’s gifted. He’s a myth, a one-year-and-one-game starter.” Playing in Fargo Oct. 3 against a Central Arkansas team that finished 5-4, Lance was 15-of-30 for 149 yards, two TDs and one interception. He did rush 15 times for 143 yards. Declared for the draft three days later. “He should not have played that game,” said a third scout. “He looked awful. Looked like a fourth-round pick. No accuracy. No pocket poise. He fumbled the ball. He looked like a developmental backup guy. Straight-line type athlete. He reminded me of Jameis Winston where it’s not really a fluid, natural motion or natural movement in the pocket. He kind of has to gather his whole body to throw.”
Two scouts said they’d take him over Jordan Love. “You like the taste, but it’s a small sample,” a fourth scout said. “I like his tools. I think he can be good, but would I bank on it? There’s not enough information for me. A lot of unknowns there that would give me pause.”
Kyle Trask, Florida (6-foot-4½, 240 pounds): High-school backup in Manvel, Texas, who was offered by the Gators based on his showing at a camp. “He didn’t even start in high school,” said one scout. “He’s lucky to be a starting quarterback. He has numbers, but I think there’s better out there.” Redshirted in 2016, broke his left foot in August 2017 and broke his right foot in September 2018. Took over the starting job in 2019. “Reminds me of Jared Goff,” said a second scout. “Pocket quarterback with height, arm strength, accuracy. High three-quarters release, quick release. Tight ball. Throws well in and outside the numbers. He can move around the pocket, but he doesn’t have quickness. He does have good pocket awareness. I think he’s a first-rounder.”
Posted a passer rating of 117.1. Improved each year. “Similar to (Mac) Jones,” a third scout said. “He’s got a little more moxie than Mac. He’s a game manager. Average arm. He’s gets in rhythm good, but if he has to reset and throw, it’s over with. He’s a backup type. If he ends up starting, you’ve got a bad team.” Tossed three interceptions for the Gators’ depleted offense in their first three possessions of the Cotton Bowl, his final game. Said a fourth scout: “We see him as a backup. He can’t move. Totally immobile.”
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I have to say, I really enjoy the Athletic, especially their draft coverage. I think Brugler is really good, and then you add in McGinn etc. Person is also really good, feels like he found his style. I’ll try to post the QB comments later
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I was thinking the same thing. Seem to have most traits, “just” needs good coaching and development to start late year 1, early year 2
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Bob McGinn does this really cool draft write up every year where he interview a bunch of scouts about some of the top prospects.
Hudson is an interesting LT prospect in round 2-3, anyone seen him play?James Hudson, Cincinnati (6-foot-4½, 302 pounds): Redshirted as a defensive lineman at Michigan in 2017 before moving to tackle in ’18 and playing in three games. Transferred in ’19, but Michigan contested his release. Didn’t make his debut with the Bearcats until the Birmingham Bowl in late 2019. Started at left tackle in ’20. “He’s raw, but he’s probably the best natural athlete (among the offensive linemen in the draft),” one scout said. “He’s quick. He’s aggressive. He plays like a (defensive) lineman. He tries to strike guys, which is to his detriment at this point. He’s got to learn some patience and technique. He’s got a lot to work with.”
Was removed from consideration by one team because of off-field factors. “He’s got some issues with consistency and maturity,” said another scout. “He may not be a first- or second-round pick on every board, but I would bet money that he is on 10 of them. If one team brings him in and lets him talk to their doctors and they say he’s fine, they’ll take him in the second. You only have to get picked by one.”
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1 minute ago, Martin said:
I read his arms were 33, just like Gross
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I read his arms were 33, just like Gross
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Lance is exciting because of his traits/upside/high risk.
Mac Jones is boring since he is Andy Dalton.
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1 hour ago, MHS831 said:
I have read the same thing--Bama's schedule (Notre Dame, Ohio State, SEC, etc). His arm has been characterized as "average" and he cannot run.
What does he do better than the others? What does Jones do better than Fields? Lawrence? Wilson?
He is very smart, and progresses through his reads quickly. He has a quick release. He is accurate. If his arm strength and mobility were problems, would they not only have been a problem in college?
Here is a statistic that suggests how large the difference is:
Mac Jones ball out 38th fastest
Justin Fields ball out 185th fastesthttps://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/mac-jones-justin-fields-who-has-advantage-2021/
So how does arm strength impact efficiency? Why is Fields' release so much slower? So if Jones can make all the throws, but he can anticipate sooner and release the ball quicker, is Arm strength really a factor you want to use to disqualify him?
That leaves mobility. Fields is a much better runner.
Fields has the long term upside advantage, and for that reason I would take him over Jones. But to say that Jones does not belong in round 1 because he has an average arm-I ask you this, "Does he make all the throws?" A: Yes. And he reads the coverage and delivers the ball quicker than most other QBs.
He seems to be great at his pre snap reads. He already knows where to go with the ball. The question is what he will do without an obvious pre snap option like he is used to on every play with Bama? He might be great for all I know, but there just seem to be a really small room for error without that super obvious pre snap read.
It feels like he need a great supporting cast (spectacular o-line etc.) to work.
Not a fan, but I’ll obviously root for him if we pick him. But at 8 I want a star player, not an “just ok” QB.-
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The problem I have is that his margin of error is so small. Feels like he has to be Brady or Brees to ensure his physical limitations don’t become an issue. And I don’t think he is.
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11 minutes ago, Verge said:
The can question becomes can you unleash Fields.
Exactly. Instincts are hard to change.
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13 minutes ago, Verge said:
So I was talking with my scout friend source whatever, and we were going over tape of Fields. Keep in mind we both absolutely loved Herbert last year and thought he was a locked in top 10 player, him and I had Herbert ranging from QB1-3 for most of the year. Here is what he said to me and I agree full stop with it.
"Herbert had all the skill set in the world but his coaches restrained him where as Fields has all the tools in the world and he restrains himself"
AKA Herbert was limited by play calling from coaches, where as Fields is most certainly not, and seems to be limiting himself. Who knows what reason that is.That’s a super interesting observation. How do you “unleash” Fields if he is the issue. Doable for sure, but takes a lot more work and I do believe in our coaching staff.
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3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:
One of our most productive draft picks over the last 5 years.
Doesn't miss time.
Swung to LT in a pinch and looked good, great at RT.
Has all but no help on the offensive line.
Still looked good, even with no CMC and Cam's threat to run.
Homegrown.
No off field issues.
No injury history.
Plays one of the most important positions on the football field.
If you don't extend guys like that, I'm not sure who you should extend.
P.S. this is very similar to Bradberry.
I remember hearing Bradbury wanted to leave, so we really didn’t have a chance to keep him? But I might be wrong.
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Hunter Henry might be too expensive, otherwise he would be great
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7 hours ago, mickeye76 said:
Thomas is a great. A hof tackle. He is a anomaly though. I'm not alone in a preference for length at tackle. Nice comparison though if Slater is Thomas then cool if he ends up a overdrafted interior lineman then....
Of course long arms is a preference. But my point is that doesn’t automatically disqualify everyone with less than 35 arms. There are exceptions for players with great technique, movement etc. And that is what draft analysts claim about Slater.
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I don’t know how to judge an OT properly. And Slater might be a bust, but I take the word of someone like Jeremiah over this board (no offense). He was the first one pushing forward Bechton last year and he was spot on.
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38 minutes ago, panthers320 said:
Also someone who wants Slater please explain to me how Walker Little who (from what I've seen) was ranked higher than Slater at this point last year and was considered a 1st round pick by most people and also sat out of 2020 has now slid to late 2nd/early 3rd. The knock on him is that for OT you really want to see consistency and sitting out a year will really hurt OT, yet somehow Slater does the same thing and goes from fringe 1st/2nd to a top 10 pick. Little does have some injury concerns so I get the slide but I dont get the meteoric rise of Slater.
Are you just saying you want Slater because McShay has him ranked as the 2nd best OT (Kiper has him classified as a G)? Or is there something else you actually like about him?
I might be wrong, but the rankings from a year ago were based on very limited analysis/casual observations of the prospects fir this year’s draft.
After starting to really dig in on this years prospects, a lot of things naturally change. Not based on new material, but properly reviewed game tape etc.
Holding someone to a mock draft from a year ago is a bit far fetched.
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It was always hard to watch Joe Thomas struggle with his 32.5 arms. He could have been really good with longer arms...
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I would be happy with one of the four QBs or two OTs. I prefer a QB, but solidifying the LT spot is a great “consolation prize”.
That means two other positions have to be picked before us. Seems like a slam dunk, but who would it be? Would it be two WRs, a CB, TE?
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I like Graham, but he starts out ice cold every game. Big part of why we get in a hole to start almost every game.
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13 minutes ago, MHS831 said:
I am starting to think Mac Jones is going to be the pick. Forget the mobility--smarts trumps mobility. Not sure I am happy about this, but I trust the experts who had the chance to work with him. for 3 days.
And I think we have been harsh on him..Bama QB curse? Too many weapons? Well, you could argue to the move is to draft a smart qb that needs protection and weaponry and give him protection and weaponry.
I just think that Rhule liked him, and he built a career on recognizing talent that was overlooked. A guy who covered the SR Bowl said he thinks Jones could be the 4th QB taken.
I am not happy about this, and this is why I am still bitter about the Rivera victory in DC. However, how many people had Josh Allen as the #1 QB in that draft--I had him at #4. So I lack the confidence to act like I know.
I’m thinking the same thing. But not with our first rounder. We might get Sewell or Slater in the first, then Mac in the second round.
I’ve been very skeptical of Mac (I still am to be honest, but if they think he is worth it after coaching him for a week, who am I to say otherwise?). But, how different is he really from Tua? Mac got more size, Tua is slightly more mobile? On the other hand, not sure how impressed I am with Tua...
Trade suggestion from the Athletic
in Charlotte Hornets
Posted
Trade suggestion from the Athletic. I like it myself. I know he’s young, but I’m constantly underwhelmed by PJ.
John Collins to the Charlotte Hornets
Also:
Here we go Hornets! Charlotte adds a top-notch young big man to play the rim-running role next to LaMelo Ball, one they can comfortably sign this offseason given they’ll have massive cap room and the market isn’t exactly flooded with talent. In fact, Collins’ low cap hold is a real boon here, as Charlotte should have $20 million in room even with Collins’ number on the books before they go over the cap to re-sign him. That should be enough for a half-decent center to round this group out.
A perimeter quarter of Ball-Rozier-Hayward-Collins is primed to do some serious damage offensively, and that’s worth surrendering a first-round pick likely to be in the mid-teens, plus Graham and P.J. Washington. Graham represented a thorny issue for Charlotte with his restricted free agency coming up, but will be welcomed with open arms by an Atlanta team desperate for improved backup point guard play. The Hawks also have ample room below the tax to retain Graham in free agency, and his long-range shooting should allow him to play in two-guard lineups next to Trae Young.
Meanwhile, Washington fills Collins’ role for the next two seasons at a much more affordable price, important given that the Hawks were flinching at paying a potential max deal for Collins. He’s not a great defender and not the rim-runner that Collins is, but can play three positions and offers much more salary flexibility going forward.