CRA

7 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Smith was a part time receiver and punt returner. He had 3 TDs and 154 yards. Other than his first return he didn't score again as a punt returner. That is not great or that profiting of success. And as far as Morgan goes he didn't have the rookie season that Kuechly had but of the three he's hoped the most promise. So no it took time for them like most rookies to show their true potential.

89 was #2 in return yardage and lead the NFL in return scores with 2.  arguably best in the league his rookie season hence the Pro Bowl/all rookie team.   His coach just didn’t give him WR opportunity. You got to have that.  

and a comparison to Luke (an all time GOAT) has nothing to do with Morgan proving he was legit NFL dude as a rookie.   Morgan made the all rookie team and no one was debating at the end of the year if we made the right decision.  

Agree to disagree about it should take time to simply show you are a legit pick and NFL player.  If you get legit opportunity…..like say a Mingo…you can start judging them pretty quick.  They should be showing they were good picks in windows and waves early in today’s NFL.   Specifically at the skill spots.  Line play is about the only spot I’ll ignore a bad rookie season.  QB too pending the circumstances. 

1 hour ago, BullCityP said:

You do know he was selected to the Probowl this season right? So all the voters had a concensus opinion that's he's top 10 corner unless they carried 10 corners on the roster I don’t know about lol

So….2024 he was a top 10 corner? I concede he made the Pro Bowl.  Which is a fan and then player popularity contest.   Top players at their position often don’t make it and we often see guys who aren’t make it.  That’s what the Pro Bowl is. 

Statistically he wasn’t in 2024 by old metrics. Nor did he rank as such by the newer metrics and methods out there. 

And the ONE game to my knowledge he largely matched up all game with their opponents lead WR….a washed Nuk Hopkins won the day 

everyone's reaction will be....

as we trade up to draft a Carolina Gamecock at Saftey Emmanwori .  I have studied the Panthers and run all their prior actions through my newly designed PantherbotAI system.  Prepare.  No point replying about how we could trade back for him or don't need him.  The PantherbotAI has studied these people's past behavior. 

I'd rather have him than TMac.  I still would go Warren if going O. 

3 hours ago, BullCityP said:

Not top 10?? Honestly how do some of ya'll even talk sports man smh

What season was he a top 10 corner.....and it can be backed with a statistical argument OR can be backed by a consensus opinion that can be shared? 

dude has barely suited up for over 50% of his games in Carolina.  That's like claiming CMC was a top 10 RB this year.   

and if you look at 2024 for Jayce Horn (where he stayed on the field ALMOST a full season)....his breakdown of all the different ways you can evaluate a corner has been shared.  Nothing top 10 about that performance.  Horn also doesn't travel w/ opposing 1s. 

1 hour ago, scratched said:

I'm struggling to find a WR corp that is worse than ours unfortunately. Every team has a #1 WR, we don't have one. Maybe the Jags? 

Their rookie finished the season #3 in receiving yards.  

I don't know who all makes up the bottom 5.  But I know 99% of folks are going to have Carolina and New England in their list

13 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

True. So you can say that he is not worth the money because he has missed a bunch of games - and thats a fair argument. But you can also say that when he is available he is 'one of' the best CB's in the league. 

But now you need to value that. I doubt that he takes a deal worth less then he did (obviously) so then you need to determine is the draft pick we are going to get back for him worth it. 

So you can do what we did, or you can trade the player, thereby making the defence worse, but you have most cap space sitting there. 

So on sundays when we are getting blown out, you can still feel good that we have a lot of cap space. 

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/jaycee-horn/

hard to really make any type of argument for him being a top corner

he is good. not great. 

24 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Horn is one of the top corners in the league.  GTFH with that

Jayce Horn is the Jeff Otah of corners.    

3 minutes ago, jtm said:

No way are our offensive weapons in the bottom 5.  Sorry, but I don't agree with this.  

Well….it would be hard to actually write down 5 teams with worse weapons in reality presently and not factoring what folks might become 

13 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I thought the general rule is don't judge for a minimum of 3 years.  Go back to 2001 which folks suggest might have been our best draft and tell me whether Smith, Morgan and Jenkins were great their rookie season. By season 3 they helped lead us to the super bowl. 

89 and Morgan both made the PFWA all rookie team.  89's first touch went to the house and added a Pro Bowl.  I mean, it was evident they were NFL dudes out of the gate.  How great they would be? Well, no one ever knows that.  

I think it depends on the position and era.  I think it is pretty fair to start judging offensive skill position pretty dang early given the way the game is now played vs years ago.  Specifically WR, RB and even QB.  It's really a more simplistic game today and heavy college influenced.  I think you really should look promising pretty early pending there aren't unusual circumstance (like an abnormally bad staff/situation, depth keeping you off the field, etc).  I give OL and DL more time to show their stuff.  I mean, if you draft a WR in round 1, you play him and give him opportunity, and your O doesn't complete suck do to the QB.....he should look like a good pick out of the gate pretty IMO in today's NFL. 

15 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

I also dont think Canales values the TE position the way panther fans do

Now I can accept that.  

But I still contend, an ideal Bryce Young O and a the standard O Canales has been involved with......aren't the perfect marriage.  So something had to give.  I would think catering to Bryce more vs expecting Bryce to fit the mold of his prior QBs is the way. 

4 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Edge or LB  1

Edge LB or DB at 2

WR at 3

Taking Tet or Warren at 8 would be the biggest mistake.  TEs take time, and Tet won against inferior defenses.  He will face his best competition vs the worst coverage in the NFL, I don't feel it will translate like some think.

in the last 5 drafts, pretty much all the first round TEs were ready to contribute as rookies.  Bowers and Pitts had 1k rookie seasons.  Kincaid and Hockenson were both ready to compete right away. 

Warren IMO projects to be ready to make plays as a rookie pending the landing spot.  I think if you want him to make plays, he will pretty quickly. 

16 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

XL runs a 4.39 in the 40 yard dash.

Panthers O needs quickness to round out the rec corps.    NFL is slam full of guys that can log good 40 times when they train to run good 40 times. 

XL isn't quick and shifty.  He is powerful and fast.  We need the vintage PR style WR mixed in that can take a nothing pass and make a guy miss. 

35 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

There is always a spot on a roster for a slot receiver that you know will find a way to convert  crucial 3rd and 4 with the game on the line. Happy for AT, he also might have been on the line for retirement and we did this to solidify one more year back. 

AT is a slow sure handed TE dominating the snaps at a spot a Bryce Young O needs YAC and explosive plays from. 

I don't have an issue with AT in a vacuum.  But his presence lowers the offensive ceiling IMO in a trade off for dependability.  Given where we are and where Bryce going to go with the ball I'd rather be developing and growing someone w/ Bryce there. 

Yeah, an old slow WR that missed 7 games and was debating retirement came back for  a check we inflated.  No way that sets up to be bad us.   I'm ready to turn the page.  He doesn't algin with where we need to go IMO w/ Bryce.  

I'm generally ready to move on quicker than others.  I'm often a day early and others a day late. But to me, it's like what you are seeing w/ Kelce in KC.  Him being the centerpiece of an O just doesn't work anymore.  Will AT catch balls this upcoming year and immediately be down? Sure.  Will be complain about his hands? No.  

But I have been consistent on a Bryce Young O if we are going to do it from day 1.  You need YAC guys at the slot and out of the backfield.   Slow and no YAC at this spot  just ain't how to make it work with Bryce IMO. 

2 hours ago, CPcavedweller said:

Safeties don’t change games. Corners don’t change games. Wide receiver is a maybe but if you take Warren you get a 6’6 250 lb receiver. 
 

warren is BPA. You don’t reach for need in the Top 10. 

Marty Hurney would probably take Warren or Jeanty at our spot given the way the draft looks to fall.  Take the surest bets in the top 10

13 minutes ago, Dingo_ate_Babies said:

My guess is this is almost like a restructure. This moves probably frees up some cap space this season, but he gets a little bump while while taking the cap hit down the road.

rework adds to his cap number this year (which they view as his last here).  It's just a reward.  That's at least what Joe Person says.  So maybe 50/50 at being correct.

3 minutes ago, rebelrouser said:

After two acl tears, i have doubts about Brooks ever contributing to an NFL team. 

when he got drafted I remember some studies were shared about NFL guys with ACL tears in college......Brooks followed the study.   Exceptions to everything, but the math is the math.  Don't draft RBs who tear their knee in college.  They likely will do it again. 

9 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

if we're being honest, he's probably the loudest and most obnoxious scout in the room amirite

gotta think if we just doing the player math of the last 15 years or so....SC is probably pretty high in the overall player numbers (draft or FA) out of the SEC and of the Carolina schools.  

I mean, I'm a hater.  But Wharton, Captain, etc have been some of the best value picks in franchise history. 

I think Dowdle is a great add.  It just goes against my never ending mantra of drafting RBs.  Which I would say if they added a Clemson RB.  And despite being a tater homer....I've never jumped on the Tee Higgins movement. 

7 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

was waiting on some input from our resident tater

I mean, whoever the scout is in charge of knowing the Gamecocks.....clearly gets listened too.   Gotta give him credit for that. 

I got no issue with Dowdle.  Good year last year.  Nice add to a committee. Outside of being a no good dirty Gamecock and we seem forever fixated on that school (just a joke).  

I still think drafting RBs in the draft in the big picture is better than renting vets year to year.  And I think organizationally the team has to bascially count Brooks out.  If he ever returned and was nice for us that is just an icing on the cake bonus.   I don't think it is smart business to consider him part of the backfield plan going forward.  So given that, I think a mid round RB draft pick was smarter than signing Dowdle.  RBs are easy to find and for cheap....Dowdle is the perfect example of that.  Think he was actually undrafted.  I wish the Panthers would just steadily add young RBs and basically never pay them.  Maybe make an exception if you ever found yourself where the Eagles were last year. 

I still think AT is just too old and slow given what Bryce is and what our O likely has to be.   Sure, he has great hands and is reliable and all that.  But in a Bryce Young O......you can't have the slot and that area of the field dominated by a guy that can't do anything after the catch.   

3 minutes ago, cookinbrak said:

Rather just get TMac.

TMac carries way too high of odds of being another Panther WR that doesn't get open.   

4 minutes ago, PantherPhann89 said:

We could'nt have tried to trade him? 

not much of a market for 28 year old expensive meh RBs

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

Too soon to say one way or the other. He is not good at drafting but seems to be decent with FA. Ask me next year if he's still here.

FA is largely just throwing money at knowns.  Which I'm glad he is going to that direction.  But anyone can do that.  The draft and actually adding cohesive pieces are the defining things for a GM.  Morgan still has a lot to prove there. 

33 minutes ago, SCMunnerlyn1 said:

Need a power back akin to Foreman. Guys don't wanna tackle them late in the games. 

Still need the receiving RB too.