mav1234

1 hour ago, AceBoogie said:

That is what I’m saying. That Carolina would be a last resort for him. Again this is what I believe. Feel free to have your own opinions. If the so called reports and “sources” are true then we should have no problem getting him. Hell why isn’t he here already? 

He isn't here yet because I expect Houston to continue with efforts at reconciliation. As the draft approaches I think that should those efforts fail tides will turn. It doesn't make sense to force him to stay.

I also don't think he is necessarily going to prefer here over NY or MIA.  But that is different from finding this barely netter than HOU.

We will see I guess.

5 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

Has it though? Eh. I told you him coming here will come down to Us vs Houston. Definitely not changing my stance on that based on a post from Espn Upstate. 
 

If you asked Deshaun right now would he turn down a trade to any team his answer would be no and that’s all you need to feed a report. Wake me up when he’s in a panthers uniform. The only way that happens if other teams say no and he’s stuck between returning to Houston and coming here. A long way off from that. 

Perhaps it is an error in my interpretation but I thought your past posts implied Carolina was a last resort and might not even be in consideration as better than HOU for him. Consistent reporting suggests strongly otherwise...  I agree we are still a bit of a long shot but I think our available assets are undervalued by this board (or maybe they just think all that matters is draft picks)... but that is different from Watson leaning on cams negative experiences to not come here...

3 minutes ago, JJman Returns said:

Both those teams have better, younger, cheaper QBs and better/more draft picks to offer. Our best chance at getting Deshaun was him refusing to play for Miami or NY

They have more draft capital but less capital overall. Depends how far we are willing to go.

Interesting. Pretty clear that paying a lot for a RB doesn't torpedo a team's ability to compete. 

We also need to remember cmc is a different kind of RB than most, even among highly paid RBs of the past and present.

Highly doubt that is teddy or that he has 2 other burner accounts as suggested here. 

3 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Put another way, if Watson takes it to the limit and decides to quit the game the Texans are in the same place as if they traded him -- nowhere.

 

They may or may not ever draft someone as good as Watson but they have a good chance of building a better team by trading him for 3 first rounders and a star, than if he just effectively retires. If those are the 2 options they are far more likely to get another great QB with 3 first rounders than with nothing at all.

I have a hard time imagining the Texans torpedoing a new coach and gm just to stick it to a player. If Watson refuses to budge, I just don't see why they would keep him when they will get such incredible returns.

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's not actually what happened, but it gets remembered that way a lot.

Watson didn't ask to be included on the GM and head coach decisions. McNair offered to include him. Then when the time came, he didn't do it.

I think making the offer in the first place was dumb, but if you're going to make the offer and then not follow through on it, that's a whole other level of stupid.

McNair also ignored the search group for GM, if I recall. Heh.

Very few players have this kind of leverage in the NBA and even fewer in the NFL. That teams are so small in the NBA and any one player can have so much more of an impact, it gives each individual player more relative value. The NFL is much more a team game.

We haven't seen how Watson will play out yet, so I'm hesitant to declare this some major shift. There have always been holdouts and player movements due to dissatisfaction.  

Frankly the Texans could use this as an opportunity to fleece the Jets or Dolphins and see if Caserio can't do what they hired him for. Which I think they will do if they can't get Watson enthusiastic about the team again. 

13 hours ago, 45catfan said:

How many National titles does Wilson have?   Undefeated seasons???  Pick-less seasons????  Anything??????

Lance played one season in a run first offense where he was hardly asked to carry the load. I like him, but his accomplishments should be seen in that context. I wish we had a full season in 2020 to see him play, tbh.

14 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

You realise he's in his 10th Super Bowl, right?

The quoted poster said this year, not just the best 4 in the league period.

16 minutes ago, ChayZ704 said:

Lol yeah the same jameis that beat us and the same one who has had the same success in a career as deshaun. But sounds like you’d rather give up the players in your name to get Watson huh? 

I don't know how you can say they've had the same success.  Watson has been a far more reliable QB.

I actually like Jameis, but Watson is on a whole other level.

1 hour ago, BurnNChinn said:

 Sorry we all have our own opinion, don’t really care if you like it or not.

It isn't an opinion on if Cam has a legacy or not, lol. He clearly has had an impact and the very fact we are talking about him in such a huge proportion of threads indicates he has a legacy. 

If you want to argue his legacy is largely meaningless I think you'd be wrong but to argue he has no legacy at all just seems like bitterness or worse. 

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not sure it matters.

The Texans are pretty well dug in on their front.

I think they either convince him to give their new coach a chance or they trade him. I think they trade him, but not until draft night, and I think they maintain no interest in trades until then..  I don't think it is in their interest to force a lengthy holdout.  His value declines as they do, and I don't think that bad a team can afford to just let such an investment sit out. 

16 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

I think that’s when things will get interesting . Right now it’s not something he has to decide.
 

He has to first actually get the team trade him. (They’re still saying they won’t). 
 

Then the Jets have the first shot. If they pass it then goes to the Dolphins. If the Dolphins and Jets pass then they have to go back to Deshaun and say hey, The teams you want aren’t calling, but here’s XYZ team.
 

This is where the Panthers and others come into play and that’s where I believe his relationship with Cam will be a factor in that decision making process. If he’s done with Houston then yea he may decide that Cam had his own experience and his will be different and he decides to come here anyway as Zod has pointed out, he’s a grown man and can make his own choices. 

MIA and NYJ will also have the option to make such better offers than we can, regardless of what Watson even wants.

Will be interesting to see how it goes.

5 hours ago, BurnNChinn said:

Cam has no legacy lol, just a bunch of rushing tds.

This is a bad take. Cam was prolific for years here. His mark is still felt on this team and imo the league... We squandered that.

5 hours ago, AceBoogie said:

I don’t have to prove it to you. Or anyone else here that’s the thing. The clues as to why I know this are everywhere. But more importantly a lot of it is just common sense IF you know the strength of their relationship. 
 

You want proof that he would get advice from Cam on Cam’s former team? You can read more about their relationship 

https://www.houstontexans.com/news/the-brotherly-bond-between-deshaun-watson-cam-newton-daily-brew
 

Hell Cam damn near got Deshaun to go to Auburn, but thankfully for me he was already committed to Clemson. 
 

You can draw your own educated guesses as to what Cam would tell him about Carolina and Deshaun is a grown man he didn’t go to Auburn like Cam wanted so in theory he could come here. But he ain’t. 

So you think Watson would rather stay in Houston than go to the Panthers?

3 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

Your data is wrong. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fanbuzz.com/nfl/highest-paid-backup-qbs/amp/

Find the black guy 

Interesting, but we also would need to consider the relative proportion of black QBs total and that leads to the discussion about why that proportion is how it is vs other positions...

6 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

There’s plenty of white QBs you can name that are sorry and have received fairly decent size contracts. You can’t name any black QBs that are legit sorry and have been paid handsomely to sit on the bench. 

Without looking at the stats and just considering names and contracts I remember my gut feeling is your point is correct and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was.  I don't want to land this thread in a different forum with my thoughts on it but I suspect this is not a trend exclusive to football.....

But, I don't think Cam is a strong candidate to make that argument with because of the various other circumstances and injury concerns. 

Would be curious to see more numbers on this topic (tbh it reminds me of why the NFL has stated to strongly emphasize developing minority talent in coaching staffs too), but that might derail the thread. Perhaps a new thread ton consider.

Just now, AceBoogie said:

I could be wrong here. But I don’t think Hurney was the one that wanted Teddy as much as the coaching staff did. Hurney is gone because he’s trash and he’s always been trash. 

I believe Hurney was totally sold and it sounds like Brady was too.  But I don't think that Rhule was ever the one directing that signing (and Brady wouldn't have been for that matter).

I thought I read somewhere during the later half of the season it was really Hurney pushing hard for Teddy and Brady vouched for him but I may be wrong too.

I hope Rhule does not have full or most personnel control. That is always a recipe for disaster IMO.

5 hours ago, AceBoogie said:

Eh not really. What makes it hard is when you have an owner who knows nothing hiring coaches that know nothing. 
 

Never thought Rhule deserved the job. Didn’t do poo in college. Now you put him in charge of personnel and he seems desperate rather than calculated. Overcorrection never works. 

Why do you think Rhule is in charge of personnel? I interpret his comments as a desire rather than the final call at an outcome.

He does have some power but it isn't like what soem coaches do.

I personally thing Hurney is gone in no small part because of the QB situation here. 

Just now, Moo Daeng said:

The not returning calls was regarding Watson. The Texans are just not entertaining trade talks.

Fair enough - I had just heard the public comments.  From what I had read, they're trying to convince Watson to stay, but I hadn't heard they won't even return calls yet.  It makes sense they're still trying with Watson - I mean they hired the coach they did in hopes of keeping him.

If Watson refuses to play, it would be very detrimental to the organization to try to force him to, when they could recoup their losses and give their new FO a shot to mold the team in the way they want

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

In the tweet itself and a little after 1:25 into the video...

Also here:

MMQB - 2/2/21

John McClain and Aaron Wilson have both acknowledged it as well.

So the same sources that say they're not taking calls say they'll have to soon... Heh

4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Actually, they're not.

Multiple sources have reported that while teams are calling them to discuss offers, the Texans aren't listening and they're not returning anyone's calls.

All indications are they're pretty staunchly dug in on this.

I've seen multiple reports indicating that they are trying to "take the high road" but teams are calling. I've not heard any of the major reporters say they're "not returning calls."  Where's that written down?

21 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Are they?

Clearly the Texans front office is a sieve and info leaks out there constantly...I've not heard news of a single offer of any kind -- possibly I missed it.

So NYJ, MIA and CAR is the short list?  That's it?

Would Deshaun use his no-trade clause to block a trade to the NYJ?  The Jets are arguably a worse organization than the Texans.

Why do you think offers would be leaked?  We know there's interest from around the league but the GM would play it close to the vest obviously.  We know tons of teams are interested, but we're not going to find out details right now. No doubt the Texans would prefer to find a way to keep a happy Watson, but keeping an extremely unhappy player is rough for a rebuilding franchise.

We may hear leaks closer to the draft but I doubt before.   I don't even see Watson being moved until then. No reason for it.