mav1234

Tbh I don't know how the other bottom feeders upgraded their rosters to say for sure but 28 feels low, unless you think that stretch end of season was smoke and mirrors.

We do need some young guys to step up, but we also just need some injuries to return to form (pretty expected) and FA acquisitions to play to their level last year (pretty reasonable) and at least on D we will be massively improved...

On 5/30/2025 at 6:37 PM, CRA said:

Post benching his completion % and yardage were both below league average on the year.   Now his TD to INT ratio wasn’t…..but given we were still a low productive pass O (yardage, conversions etc) I don’t see how that alone jumps him 

His completion percentage was, but his total yardage was not, and that was with some atrocious WR play at times (though some major balling out by Thielen at times for sure). But he also had some really bad throws. His mechanics are far from perfect and NEED to improve. Receivers are no longer an excuse, either. 

I'm not saying he is a top 10 QB, just that in a lot of categories he was between average and just inside the top 10 in that stretch if we do things like considering his rushing as part of his production. My issue with him is we need to see within game and between game consistency. We saw some evidence of that possibility though.

5 hours ago, CRA said:

sure, but in reality, it was just a don't do anything to screw this up game.  Backup QB caliber gameplan and ideal execution of that script.   Which is great.  You need that.  You often need that a lot in games.  But that's all that game was. 

post benching, we were still a bottom tier pass attack and Bryce had below average production as a NFL QB post benching overall.  What he did have was one of the most glaring improvements from one year to the other we have seen.  

The top 10ish stuff is just where I start calling the over the top stuff what I think it is.   It's a unique PFF argument.   Not an argument that is supported by PFF

This just isn't true for that time span, unless you exclude his rushing.  Which would be perfectly in line with Panthers fans to do lol... But in that time span he was some place between 8-15 in most metrics and that included some good to great performances eye test wise. His ~230 yards per game was pretty good, and he was on pace for approx 28-30 TDs in a season and ~3900 total yards, with only 11 ints. And that was with the insane drops he had to deal with, not like some perfect performance by his receivers 

Anyway as to the backup quality whatever, if your backup QB is scrambling all over the field and delivering 20 yard completions every couple drives (barring the fourth quarter, anyway) - he's not just a backup, and probably gets a start some place... But he did play inconsistently at times, which is a major concern 

On 5/27/2025 at 7:37 AM, CRA said:

sure, the 6th best passer the last 8 weeks of the season.  The problem is when you start shrinking numbers.....averages can get really weird and can present false info/narratives.  You can see that everywhere in life. 

for example, he only broke 60% in 3 of those 8 games.  In only 3 of those 8 games did he surpass the average passing yards per game. 

remove the last 2 games of the season.....and where does he finish in the final 6 or on the season as a whole.    People are most definitely overinflating Bryce's play.   And it's largely because of the drastic change of what he was to what he became.  Which was HUGE.  But in comparison to the rest of the league, above average doesn't pass the eyeball test.  For example, people largely are remembering him playing well vs Philly.  He was BAD that game.  XL just happened to drop a pass he shouldn't have and Philly played horrific all game.  Or looking at the stat sheet and claiming he was great vs AZ.  He wasn't.  He was literally one of 11 that game just not messing it up. 

I don't think the stat sheet is why Bryce was good in the AZ game. I don't think it's some incredible performance either, but it was a good game from a QB. He was much weaker in the 2nd half, but he moved the ball pretty well, and was effective in the red zone. He used his legs very well too.

Philly was not a great game for him though. Lots of bad throws, but a few great ones (including the drop, lol)

I'd say that since returning from benching he was on the low end of a top 10 QB. He needs to continue to improve and show consistency within and between games. 

5 hours ago, CRA said:

If you took a hot tub time machine to the huddle at this time of 2023…..it was a roster that rivaled 2003 with the bonus of an all star staff 

I mean maybe the way the roster looked coming in to 2003 - 2003 had a lot of players emerge in such big ways but didn't look spectacular at the start, lol

Nobody thought that receiving corps was going to be particularly great, but a lot of us thought our great coaching hires (lol) would carry us through to challenging for the division...

It's weird to think that WR may be a major strength of this team by end of year. Of course, when you use a top 10 draft pick a year after a first rounder, that IS a big deal....

32 minutes ago, Icege said:

It's difficult to take the "we need to make sure we have a back-up QB developed just in case" claim seriously when the only posters I've seen bang that drum are the ones that want(ed) Bryce gone.

While it is a reasonable position to take, we've also seen that it's not exactly coming from a place of sensibility as much as it is hate for BY9.

Eh, I don't think anyone can reasonably accuse me of wanting Bryce gone anymore and I wanted to develop a back up QB, but the total roster is more important. Just the way our holes have been patched it didn't work out well. Part of my desire is because we've got a QB guru has HC... But next year's QB class is supposed to be so, so much better, so that'll be a time to snag a backup.

1 for 5 on 50+ in 2021 and 2022. No 50+ yard tries in 2023, but made all 5 in 2024 including a 59 yarder. Promising for sure 

16 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

He had 2 games last year over 251 yards passing.

AFTER the benching he had 5 games of 203 yards or less and only 4 games over 203.

Trying to pull out whatever stat they use to call something a "big time throw" as proof that he's proven be belongs in the league as the face of a franchise is so much more of a delusional take than the opposite.

He improved his play after the benching, but trying to say anything more than that is the delusional take, sorry but those are the facts.

Yards aren't really a good measure alone. He was one of the best QBs in the league in that stretch in most categories but yardage, heh. He definitely was not Burrows but he was pretty good.  Averaged 210 yards passing, 20 yards rushing a game, plus 2 TDs a game. 

I'd like to see him continue to improve, but projected over a season those games were just under 4k combined yards (~3600 passing), 35 TDs, 13 TOs. Good for a starter, though not superstar-esque. His raw passing numbers would have been top 15ish, but he proved himself rushing so I don't think that should be ignored. 

For me personally I want to see the high level of play over a season. And he still sometimes has several series that are just total head scratchers - I'd like to avoid that, heh.  May be play calling there too.

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, the good thing about committing to building around a young QB is that even if it doesn't work out you've built a strong foundation for the next guy to try to build on.

That's a helluva lot better than getting a Cam Newton then saying "well, that takes care of offense now we can spend all our resources on defense!"

Yup. Gotta support the young QBs. A defense does help with that but the best thing to do is build a strong OL, and get them a young receiver or three to grow with. 

It does feel like there's more intelligent team building going on now... But some of that is just how Bryce is nowhere near the player Cam was, heh.

Given the holes the team had, it wasn't really easy to bring in a decent development QB. They're putting a young QB in a tremendous position, so if Bryce crashes and burns this year... Well we'll be in a good position offensive wise to bring in a new one.

Just now, PNW_PantherMan said:

I think Shedeur is going undrafted at this point, because teams are drafting UDFA quality QBs instead.

Honestly might be the best outcome for him. He will get offers and will get to pick where to go.

1 minute ago, Tbe said:

Exactly. Sanders is like Cam in his final years as a FA.

Not good enough to start but too cocky and distracting to be a backup.

There is just no upside to him on a team with an established starter.

I've been avoiding the Cam comparison because it risks derailing this thread completely... But yes. It is reminiscent of his situation. And just like with Cam, he could very well have been a great backup / teammate but some of his rhetoric made teams question that. 

6 minutes ago, Shocker said:

I know there is no way in hell the Panthers would take him and all the circus it would create here but Sanders is becoming an asset worth taking if only to develop as the backup and trade later.  He is too talented to be here in the 4th round.

The issue is teams are clearly sending a message they don't believe he can be a good backup. I guess we'll see if that holds as his talent far out paces the rest of the draft board.

1 minute ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Bad attitude or not, it doesn't make Dillon Gabriel worth a 3rd round pick. 

That's true. But it's true whether Sanders is available or not, lol

2 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

You can say Shedeur sucks all you want, but these guys getting drafted instead of him are terrible.  Dillon Gabriel in the 3rd?  lmao Browns gonna Brown.  That's a hell of a reach for a team that's trying to do anything but pick him.

If you don't think he's a starter for you, that means he's a backup. So then, you have to decide what his potential ceiling is, and then evaluate how well you think he'd do as a backup. Unfortunately, he doesn't come off as a backup and I think the sad reality is his father's media circus turns people off from that. 

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It's super fuged up. He might be cocky and his dad's antics might be insufferable but he is still just a kid. Making him go through something like this and then doing that is fuged up.

I will say that someone from one of the NFL teams very clearly leaked that number.

It's really shitty to do something like that... I don't feel terrible he hasn't been drafted tbh - he will land on a team - but it isn't his fault his father is who he is and he doesn't deserve torment right now for it.

11 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/shedeur-sanders-fall-day-3-predictable-avoidable

This is a great read and helps me completely understand why he's falling like he is. 

22 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not for overly relying on number crunching and bean counting but we have been undeniably drafting horribly for years now so I'm not going to complain about trying a new approach that's for sure.

We'll see how it all plays out on the field but this draft just feels smarter / better than the past few.

We'll see how the players turn out but the way this draft was handled feels much better than ... The last half decade or so.

He was never going to make it to us anyway...

4 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

If we didnt have anyone at his Pro day and we haven't met with him then it's doubtful he's on the board

RAS scores must be too low...

2 Above Average: Rico Dowdle, Sam Martin

3 Average: Brady Christensen, Bobby Brown III, Tre'Von Moehrig

2 Below Average: Patrick Jones II, Tershawn Wharton

Not too bad.  Lots of fans have been down on the Moehrig deal but PFF seems to have expected him to get even more.

38 minutes ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

https://x.com/mike_e_kaye/status/1899266735254929809?s=46&t=xeIgh_-Vr2aKxBkBJdfnKA
 

Update on the Patrick Jones II deal with the #Panthers: 

Base value is $15 million over two years, per league source. 

Previously reported, as others, incentives can bring it up to $20 million.

Even better.