SCO96

1 hour ago, NorthTryon said:

Wow, people are pouting so hard that they are coming up with conspiracy theories. You get a bunch of picks, the draft is deep at RB, and the team isn't good. What is not to like?

The front office! 

I telling you, with the exception of picking a QB in the 1st round (always a contentious subject), I think half of the people on this board would do a better job using those picks to fill in the roster for 2023. We'd take the best player at a position of need on the board when we're on the clock. We wouldn't "trade back for value" and leave a starting prospect on the board for a  lower rated player or select a players in later rounds just for the sake of having extra picks. 

4 hours ago, TheRumGone said:

Pj is done here after this year.

PJ is done in the NFL after this year. 

33 minutes ago, Tbe said:

Taylor Moton

Djax

I had forgot about those two. Thanks guys. Those were both Gettleman selections I believe. He took over in 2013 I think. That's 5 good players players between 2013-2021 in the 2nd and 3rd rounds(jury is still out on 2022 class). Did we miss anyone else? I don't think so.

26 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

It’s not the same group drafting this year, so it’s not really relevant. 

Have we changed the GM or scouting department? From what we have seen (so far) it appears we'll have the same FO people next year. If Fitts gets full control that new coach will be working for him and "may" have little to say in who gets selected.

As I stated earlier if we get an HC/GM coach that click together, this could actually work. But if they clash, of Fitts feels like he needs total control to keep his job and downplays the HC's input, things could go turn sour in a hurry. 

30 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Many great players have come out of the 2nd and 3rd round.  I think we need to calm down and start watching plays that might fall to us in the draft.  Our new head coach and Fitterer will be going in the draft with the top pick and 2 2nd round picks.  That's almost a guarantee for 3 starters.   We'll have replaced one starter with 3.  NOT BAD

How many of them have picked? I've posted this twice but received no reply. Outside of James Bradberry (2016 and no longer with the team), Jeremy Chinn (2020), Brady Christensen (2021), How many of our 2nd and 3rd round picks have actually become above average and made a significant impact on the team since the SB season of 2015?

31 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

You mean with an actual Oline and legit QB he's able too?

You don't phucking say?

 

If Eckler was here today he'd look like a slightly better Chubba.

It's a different story when the entire D knows you are the only thing there is on O

I wonder what type of numbers Eckler would average per game (and how many games the team would win overall) if he played behind that atrocious line Carolina had last year with a wounded Cam, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold, or Baker Mayfield running Joe Brady and Bob McAdoo offense schemes instead of Justin Herbert.

5 minutes ago, joemac said:

All anybody has been talking about for years is our terrible QB play.  Obviously it all starts and ends there.  We MUST have a good QB to be even a mediocre team.  Which is why we are now all in on the tank, in order to secure the first pick, and draft one of the hopefully generational talents in Stroud and Young. 

The above statement is true. But the crowd that wanted him moved repeatedly say "We weren't winning with him", like our effort to feed him the ball is the reason we lost these games.

One poster even posted the win totals for the past 3 games for our wins with Christian 5,5,1.

How many games did we win without him? 

How many of those wins would have been losses if he hadn't played?

But, as soon as we get 3 top tier starters/playmakers in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th with those extra picks in 2023 ;and another one in the 5th round in 2024; we will be well on our way to dominating the NFC...sarcasm intended.

36 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

This team with cmac with past 4 years.  5-5-5-1

 

At some point its time to acknowledge what you are doing isnt working

At some point we need to acknowledge our poor QB play is the main reason for those losses. Kyle Allen, 6-7 won loss record, has more QB wins than anyone  in Carolina since the 2018 season.

That's more than Cam, Teddy, Sam, and Baker who were all 1st round picks!

Why do all of the pro-trade people focus on the record with Christian on the field but they never say a word about the mediocre QB play in Carolina since the 2017 season? If we don't get a good QB in 2023, the record won't be any better with those extra picks.

10 minutes ago, Growl said:

you just don’t get it man, but if you follow me on Twitter you’ll see that I’ve got some really excellent write ups on some exciting middle round prospects that I discovered due to my vast scouting mind and YouTube.com

follow me at Twitter.com/draftsagemaster17notaforumguyliterallyascoutingguru

I don't know if you're being serious or sarcastic .

I will say that I do believe a lot of us on at the Huddle could do a better job with those picks than the guys in the FO. None of us would have ever drafted Vernon Butler in the 1st round. We wouldn't have drafted Derrick Brown as the 6th overall in 2020. We wouldn't have traded down from a mid 30's pick to 58 and pass on 5 offensive tackles, 2 starting guards, and a center in Creed Humphrey an center who'll likely be a Pro Bowler/All-Pro for the rest of the decade to draft TMJ, a WR that never impacts the play on the field. We wouldn't have traded a 3rd round pick for CJ Henderson or a 2nd round pick for Sam Darnold.

Yet, all of the above (and plenty of other misses in rounds 3-7) have happened since 2016 due to decisions in the front office, which doesn't appear likely to change this off-season. Why should we think we're going to strike gold with 3 extra 49er draft picks in 2023 (pun intended)?

48 minutes ago, Zod said:

2nd 3rd 4th 5th is fair for a guy that has barely played in two years.

But he's played well and hasn't missed a game this season. He is literally the only player on offense who has had a positive impact on the team other than Shenault for two plays in the New Orleans game. I can't imagine how bad this team is going be on offense for the rest of the year. 

We are clearly tanking for the the first round pick. When franchises do things like this it doesn't seem to  go as planned. I have no faith in an organization that has handled our player personnel and drafts so poorly the past 3 years. No team that has traded 1 RB should be hapless/inept on offense. Yet, we just lost 80% of our offensive production. And, we're suppose to think the people who built this roster are going to rebuild this team with solid draft choices  at the end or middle of rounds 2-4. Have you guys actually studie/analyzed the results of the players we tend to get in these rounds?  I'll believe it when I see it.

If we get a great offensive minded HC who is perfectly in sync with our GM (whoever that may be in 2023), then this could work. But, if our draft class follows the trend of our past 10 years or so we'll going to wind up with 3 or 4 Jags who could never start on another contending team in the NFL and continue or history of "sustained mediocrity."

4 hours ago, Krovvy said:

It's about what I had imagined the Panthers would get. As long as he stays healthy, he can be the piece that pushes a team over the top.

However, I don't think a lot of our fans are thinking with their heads. Since we drafted Christian the team hasn't won. He's been amazing at what he does, but stats don't win football games. There are guys every year found late in the draft or even undrafted that can produce at the running back position, and it doesn't come with a premium contract.

Since we drafted Christian, he only had one season in which he played with a healthy and top end QB (2017).

After Cam's injury things have never been good the Carolinas in terms of QB. Someone had a post on here this week about QB records here the past few years. The guy at the top of the list was Kyle Allen with a 6-7 record. The is almost unbelievable when you actually brake time to think about it.

Yet, Christian seems to be the one is the scapegoat because we didn't win with him. We've been bad since 2018 because of bad QB, not because of an overly expensive RB contract.

2 minutes ago, trueblade said:

CMC never had back to back 1k 1k seasons. He did it one time. Awesome accomplishment, but he's highly unlikely to do so again.

As I stated, most teams don't need a 1k 1k because they use a committee of backs.

The Austin Eckeler comparison isnt quite fair. This is a QB driven league and Eckler plays with one of the best young QBs in the game, Justin Herbert. He has one of the strongest arms in the league and has nos trouble pushing the ball down field. San Diego also has better receivers than we do. Teams play the Chargers and go in with the mindset we have to stop Herbert; Eckeler is the leaser concern which opens things up for him.

Since Cam's injuries we haven't had a real threat at the QB position. Every team realizes our QBs are not a threat so they can focus on McCaffrey.

 If Cmac we're healthy and on that Charger team his numbers would be equal to or better than Ecklers.

2 minutes ago, Panthercougar68 said:

If we draft a QB that averages 8.9 yards a pass next year this is all moot.

"If" is the operative word. Outside of Cam Newton, and possibly Kerry Collins, has this team ever drafted a viable NFL starter?

This QB class isn't stellar. I don't see a sure thing in the class of 2023. And, even if we happen to get a decent prospect the kid is going to struggle early. We don't have a legit #1/#2 on this squad who could start on another team other than DJ Moore.  No passing threat at TE. RB looks iffy. Are we expecting a rookie QB to come here and carry the team with only 1 playmaker.

Some are going to say "we have extra draft picks now". True but what are going to do with them? Since 1995 e have drafted 2 great wideouts, (Moose and Smitty); no difference makers at TE (Wesley Walls and Greg Olsen) came here as veterans. 3 good RB's (D.Williams, J. Stewart, C.McCaffrey).

Things can change, but I just don't think the draft haul is going to live up to expectations. I have little faith in the decision making of the front office.

5 minutes ago, Mother Grabber said:

if you’re upset about getting a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th for a guy who sees the field for half a season, i don’t know what will make you happy. we’ve drafted well the last couple of years, we should get good value for those picks.

Outside of Jeremy Chinn (2020 round 2)  and Brady Christensen (2021 round 3), tell me a what players currently on our roster chosen in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th, have given us a "good value" in terms of a significant impact on the playing  field since we drafted James Bradberry in round 2 of the 2016 draft. 

On paper the extra picks sound good, but I just don't see us nailing each pick in 2023. If we end up with 3 or 4 JAGs then this trade will be a massive failure outside if clearing cap space. And, what good is cap space if the players you pick don't make the team significantly better?

I wish the best for CMAC. He should thrive in that offense of he stays healthy. Having to game plan for him and Deebo is going to be a nightmare for opposing defenses. I can see why the 49ers made this deal. They are being aggressive and are going all in to win a title this year.

As for us, I'm expecting more of the same...sustained mediocrity, if not worse. We got a 2,3,4 in 2023 and 5th in 2024 next year and some people are acting we are bound for greatness now. This team has been in the league since 1995 and never has back to back winning seasons. Our drafts have usually been historically bad after the 1st and 2nd rounds for the past decade. Some years we haven't even produced a bonafide starter after the first round. Hurney was terrible at building roster depth and finding hidden gems late in the draft. Our current GM seems to enjoy trading down for value and excess picks that never make a significant impact on the playing field. I'm not even going to mention the Darnold and Mayfield trades

We don't have Ozzie Newsome or Brandon Beane running the front office. Since the Rhule/Fitz era began in 2020 I struggle to find  a pick outside of of the first round other than Jeremy Chinn and Brady Christensen who have lived up to their draft position. Yet, a portion of this fan base feels we're going get it right this time.

I'll always root for the team, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I would have liked this deal better if we definitely knew who was coaching the team (I can't see Wilks getting this job now), running the front office (no guarantee that Fitz is coming back), and coordinating the the squads on both sides of the ball heading into the 2023 draft.

Christian has been the only offensive threat we've had all year. Never was that more obvious than last week's debacle in LA. Based on what we've seen so far, this team in all likelihood will be unwatchable on offense for the remainder of the season. 

PJ Walker is starting this week?!

7 minutes ago, Jmac said:

With the Jets he was behind a terrible oline. Had Anderson as a wideout with basically a shitty group around him.

Don't be shocked if he wins a few now.

Can you imagine what the pundits and Huddlers would do if Sam (or even Eason for that matter) got hot and led us to a 9-2 or 8-3 finish and we somehow sneek into the playoffs? 

I don't know if the board would rally around him or want to try to run him out of town for messing the draft position.

10 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I’ll give you one good reason. He’s the best QB on the roster. fug, that hurts saying it out loud.

And this my friend is why Matt Rhule is currently unemployed!

6 minutes ago, cookinbrak said:

If I had the #1 pick, I'd trade it for multiple picks. Who was the last #1 QB to win a trophy?

Technically Stafford just did it last year. But, I get your point. He was traded to SB contender in what should be the prime of his career. I'd expect him to do well in that environment. He never won a playoff game with the Lions, who drafted him. Before him, Peyton and Eli were both # 1 picks that were able to win titles with the teams that drafted them.

If you had a class like the 1983 (Elway, Kelly, O'Brien, Mario) or 2004 (E .Manning, Big Ben, Philip Rivers) I could see trading back to get one of these guys a little later in the top 10. But, none of the QB's inthis class seem like sure things to me, so I'd probably go with the guy that the organization feels the most comfortable with.

27 minutes ago, CRA said:

Shi probably has shown the most potential but Shi is a slot guy at this point.  You can't just take that type guy and throw him on the outside.  Then it doesn't work.   Shenault falls into this too.  He isn't the type WR you put on the outside because that isn't what he is. 

On the outside I think you simply rotate TMJ and Higgins on the outside.

Here's the interesting thing about Shenault. If we hadn't picked him up this season, you could make a strong argument that this team would still be winless. Seriously. If you take away his two big catches in the Saints game, I don't think the Panther would have won.

A 1-5 record is terrible, but it' better than 0-6 

I was never overly impressed by Robbie Anderson. I didn't hate the guy, but I did think the amount of his contract extension was questionable with the drafting of TMJ the same offseason. Robbie is no longer in the equation. Who should get the start opposite of DJ this week?  

I say TMJ. We passed on a solid bunch of lineman in the 2nd round with the trade downs in 2021. So far we have nothing to show for it. I really want to see what he can do as a starter.

Or do you go with Shi or one of the other receivers. Our passing game has been so bad this year that we really can't assess the play of the bench guys fairly.

11 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Here is how I see it:  A RBs production (on average) tends to start a downward slope around age 27.  CMC has been banged up.  Will he last until he is 29 at this rate?  If he is relevant when we are not, he may be better off traded.  I love CMC, and I hope he has a long career, but I do not see this offense (without a QB) as a year away--I see it as 2-3 years away. 

Years ago there was a website that actually study the rate of decline in RB's. I haven't read it in quite some time but the findings were interesting. Here is what I remember. Removing significant injuries from the equation (Terrell Davis, Gale Sayers, etc), the decline is not primarily based on age, but the number of carries that a back receives. 

Guys like Eddie George and Eddie George were true studs when they first hit the league. But after year 5 there was a noticeable drop in production, especially ypc. Guys who didn't reach 300 carries per year had longer careers and were more productive into their 30's than guys who routinely hit the 300-350 mark early in their careers.

Guys like Jerome Bettis (5'11/250) and John Riggins (6'2/240)were outliers. Their physical makeup and strong lower bodies allowed them to endure hits better than most backs and both could still bring it well past the age of 30. Riggins actually rushed for more yards in his 30's than he did in his 20's.

Christian has never had a 300 carry season. But, he has a lot of catches which sort of evens things  out.  However, he takes less punishment on the hits in the open field than he does running the ball between the tackles. He should be getting about 20 touches a game (carries and catches combined) and complemented by another back to aid the running game. He could probably easily play past 30 for 2 or 3 seasons if his work load was managed.

50 minutes ago, frankw said:

I mean it's what's going to happen if he's healthy we know it we can lie to ourselves but we've seen it with three coaches. At what point do you start to pull your hair out and say okay let's build a real sustainable offense?

You've seen it with 3 defensive minded head coaches. Our last one Ron Rivera exposed Cam to too many hits and became overly reliant on him. When Cam went down he repeated the cycle with Christian. 

Based on what we're hearing, it appears Tepper want to hire an offensive minded guy. Any coordinator with a minimal football IQ realizes you can't rely on 1 player to produce 80% of your offense. If we get an offensive minded HC and find him a QB I can pretty much assure you more players will be integrated into the game plan each week. Can you imagine how much better we'd be if actually got a true pass catching TE on the field, or better developed either of the 3 that we currently have?

If we go defensive minded again, then I think your assessment will unfortunately be dead on.

15 hours ago, UNCrules2187 said:

Well considering he's only 26 years old and barely has any wear on him for the past two years, yeah I think he will be productive when we're back in the playoffs. As teams like the Giants and Dolphins are showing, all you need is the right combination of coaching staff and decent QB play to be one year away from playoff contention.  

And, it' not like we play in top tier division. The NFC South is weak this year. Brady and the Bucs look average so far. The Saints and Falcons certainly aren't among the elite teams in the NFC. If we had a HC in the mold of Andy Reid, Sean McVey, Sean Peyton...and gave him a good, not even great, QB...I believe we could take our division next year, especially if Brady walks away from Tampa at the end of the season.