SCO96

13 minutes ago, frankw said:

There was a time when I was willing to eviscerate Teddy Bridgewater but when you move past his lack of deep ball and penchant for taking the easy passes you have to acknowledge some things. We did at least move the ball up and down the field more often and that was with Matt Rhule Joe Brady and hey how about this known jag RB Mike Davis in McCaffrey's absence. That's the best our offense has looked in almost three years and we didn't have disgruntled receivers and we didn't have to forcefeed McCaffrey. We never should have traded Teddy if all we were going to go after was the likes of Sam Darnold. That's on Rhule and Fitterer who for some reason quite a few people want to give a free pass to.

You and I agree on something . 

I wouldn't have traded Teddy either. He signed a 3 year deal in 2020. We overpaid for him, but his salary was a bargain compared to what QB's are making now. We should have drafted a QB while Teddy was in house. He could have sat for a year (or two) and if properly groomed he'd be poised to take over no later than 2023. We wouldn't have had to make the Darnold trade so we'd still have draft capital to fill other holes. I honestly think Rhule would still have a job if he had kept Teddy.

Teddy's fault was the inability to perform in the clutch. I enjoyed watching the team in 2020. Eight of our 11 losses were by one score. But, Teddy was 0-8 in 4th quarter comeback opportunities. That wasn't all on him. We lost a couple of games with missed FG's. Unfortuantely, Rhule and Fitt overreacted and set us up for this present day disaster.
 

31 minutes ago, frankw said:

Dude! Cam Newton led the team in rushing yards that season. How are you going to begin your post calling me out for overlooking things but cherry pick something like that? We have never won more than 5 games with McCaffrey as the primary weapon we can argue about circumstances but these are the facts.

Dude! I never said Cam didn't lead the team in rushing in 2017. I just said that we made the playoffs with Stewart and McCaffrey splitting carries at the RB position. I'm not cherry picking anything. That was also the last year that Cam was healthy from start to finish.

You're the one who is cherry picking. You keep saying that "we have never won more than 5 games with McCaffrey as the main weapon". We haven't had a consistent starter or competent QB play in Carolina since Christian became the feature back in 2018. You NEVER acknowledge that in your posts. The QB really should be the main weapon in today's NFL. And right now we just don't have one. And I can promise you we want be able to get one with the compensation we receive from a McCaffrey trade.

7 minutes ago, frankw said:

Can we please stop fapping over the 1k/1k season? We won five games and McCaffrey led the league in touches. And every time I bring up McCaffrey's success rate running the ball in the RZ on 3rd and 4th down people scatter immediately. Yes he's got terrific hands he has clear dynamic ability as a WR but as a traditional RB which is what we need it is not going to get it done.

You tend to overlook the fact that this team made the playoffs in 2017 when Stewart and McCaffrey were splitting carries. They next year (2018) we were rolling with a 6-2 record before Cam got HURT. The next year (2019) Cam only played two games. The guys who replaced him on the field during those injury plagued season are all backup caliber QB's at best.  Cam was let go and replaced by Teddy Bridgewater prior to the 2020 season. Teddy at that time had never thrown more than 15 TD's in a season. We all see how badly the Sam Darnold experiment turned out in 2021. Acquiring Baker (2022) has almost made things worse.

Your post imply that we just got a 3rd round pick for McCaffrey our offense would thrive.  He isn't holding the team back. Subpar QB play is holding this team back, which is why we all want the FO to get QB in round 1 this year and an offensive minded HC to groom him.

Who has the franchise picked in the 3rd round the past 4 or 5 seasons that has really had a huge impact for this team on the field other than Brady Christensen, who isn't even playing his natural position, but is proving to be a solid starter?

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Listen brother I want a first too. But if a team has a chip like that to deal why wouldn’t they either use that to get a younger playmaker with less mileage and injury concerns or sign one of the FA backs in what is going to be one of the best free agent running back groups in years. We hold very little leverage. I would say just keep him for one or two more years but we are now on our third head coach and still the gameplan is "save me CMC here take all the touches". We don't score points with him we don't score points without him. We need a major shift in philosophy.

We need an offensive minded head coach.

Since 1995 we keep hiring defensive minded head coaches who are behind the curve when it comes to the passing game. They want to run the ball, stop the run and play tough defense to keep the games close. Dom Capers, John Fox, and Ron Rivera were practically the same coach. Each got us to NFC title games. Two got us to SB appearances, but none of them could produce back to back winning seasons.

Trading McCaffrey doesn't indicate a shift in philosophy, but hiring an offensive minded HC would be. Ironically, if we did hire a good coach with good offensive mind and acquired a good QB, Christian and DJ...the two players everyone seems to want to trade away...would benefit the most.

1 hour ago, frankw said:

The truth is the truth. In a quarter century I've never seen a cult of fans around any other running back on this team and we have had some good ones no doubt.

We've only had two backs in our team's history to have multiple 1,000 yard seasons : Christian and DeAngelo. Anthony Johnson (1996), Steve Davis (2003), and Jonathan Stewart (2009) each had one. Stewart almost got there in 2015 but he finished 11 yards short. No other RB's in team history have eclipsed 1,000 yards. Carolina hasn't had a history of elite running backs the past 27 years. McCaffrey is already the 4th leading rusher in team history in his 5th year on the team and he's barely played the past two seasons. The only players with more career rushing yards than him are J.Stewart, D.Williams, and Cam, a QB.

None of the above RB's  ever came close to getting 1,000 yards receiving. Christian isn't the fastest back we've ever had. Nor is he the  the strongest we've ever had. But his is undoubtedly the best all around back in team history. I don't think he is going to be "easy" to replace, especially if you give him away for pennies on the dollar, which IMHO would be anything less than a high 2nd round pick. 

23 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Of course the passing game is the key right now, no one ever said it didn’t but Reid has had solid RB production for decades. He just used a 1st on a RB due to losing Hunt unexpectedly so I could easily see him being interested in CMC.

Also, when the Chiefs won the recent SB, Damien Williams had 290 total yards and 6 TDs in 3 playoff games. Fournette had over 400 total yards and 4 TDs in 4 games for Brady’s Tampa SB run.

While the passing game is huge, acting like Reid or Brady succeeded with no running game isn’t true. 290 yards and 6TDs out of Damien Williams is knowing how to use a RB and it certainly helped Reid win his first SB.

Brady had 1,000 yard rushers (Antwan Smith and Corey Dillon) for his first 3 SB wins.

47 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Newton plays a more important position than McCaffrey and when was the last time he won a game with us? Hadn't he lost something like 11 or 12 straight?

Wins and losses are not an individual player stat.

Cam was great in Carolina. Arguably our best player ever. But, he only had 3 winning seasons with the Panthers. You can't blame that solely on him. As you pointed out wins and losses are not individual stats, they are TEAM STATS. And quite frankly, we haven been that great (or even good) team since Cam got injured in CMAC's 2nd season (2018).

15 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I trade DJ Moore all day for the 12 pick in the draft.  He is the most overrated "underrated" receiver imo.  He is great with the ball in his hands, but displays questionable effort and he can disappear through stretches.  He is good, but I take the 12 pick.

I like DJ. I think he could really blossom in a good offensive scheme with strong talent surrounding. He's put up impressive number with some of the worst quarterbacking in the NFL over the past 4 seasons. That said, I'm with you. I'd move him a high 1st round draft choice in heartbeat. It's easier to find a receiver of his caliber in the draft or FA then it is to find a talent like CMAC. Plus, doesn't he have a cap figure over 20mil next season?

3 minutes ago, davos said:

Brian Burns is posting nature videos of rams on his IG today...so there's that

How can the Rams possibly afford to trade for Brian Burns? Do they have any more 1st round picks this decade .

Seriously, they seem to trade away their high draft choices every year for star players.

7 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Wait till we hire a coach worse than Rhule . poo will hit the fan or god forbid we draft a Akili Smith or Tim Couch or Joey Harrington. It doesn’t seem to be discussed at all that we might screw up again. I mean we aren’t guaranteed to get McDermott and Allen.

I don’t mind trading CMC to the Bills because honestly, I’d love to see him in a competent offense. I’d rather he won a SB here but we have no clue who our coach or QB will be or if we’ll ever be close. The Bills winning would be the closest with all the ex-Panther staff. 

If we end up with CJ Stroud in the first round I can almost guarantee you we'll be in the same position we are in right now by his 3rd year in the league. Ohio State QB's don't pan out in the NFL. If we take a QB's in this years draft (which we should) he's the QB I absolutely do not want.

1 hour ago, toldozer said:

If he was a normal running back yes but I don't think we can get enough value for it to make sense.  He can be a very effective slot wr for years after his rb days are over

I'm glad I',m not the only who see the value in keeping Chrisitian when it comes to his receiving abilty.

Frank Gifford and Lenny Moore are Hall of Fame RB's from the 1950s/1960's. Both of them were gifted runners who averaged well over 4.0 yds per carry. But they may have actually been more dangerous as receivers. Gifford averaged over 14.0 yards a catch and Moore averaged over 16.0 ypc; and they were doing that in a run first era. Gifford all but stopped carrying the ball the last 3 years of his carrier and was primarily a receiver. I seem to recall that when CMAC came out of college he was said to be one of the best route runners in the draft. 

CMAC should/could be used the way Landry used Dorsett in Dallas. He rarely got 20 carries a game (due to his size) and he was used to catch screens and shorter routes out of the backfield. It's one of the reasons he was still an effective back after he turned 30.

If someone would give us gold mine for him, I'd understand making a move. We won't get mote than a 2nd at best.

58 minutes ago, CRA said:

I’d take a 1st and 3rd for him.  

He is a RB, with an injury history and next year will be year 7.  30 is 3 seasons away. 

 

This is why no one is going to givwe you a first and third for him.

4 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

IT BEGS THE QUESTION, WHAT DO THEY DO IN PRACTICE?  Both Rhule and Wilks just rave  about PRACTICE 

It does make you wonder how many time they had PJ drop back in practice this week and throw those LOS passes to CMAC and company.

1 minute ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

Apparently Hollywood Brown suffered a season ending injury yesterday 

I didn't even know who was hurt until a few minutes ago while watching Colin Cowherd. I was wondering Arizona would be interested in him. 

I can see Robbie getting upset out there. They already have AJ Green and Deandre Hopkins is coming back on Thursday. I can't see him getting too many catches. Then again if he caught 1 pass a quarter he'd be more productive than he's been in our offense.

None of us are ever going to call plays in the NFL, but I think a fair number of us could have found a way to get a couple of 5-10 yard completions each quarter. 

They should have been able to call some hook/curl routes, dig routes, or crossing patterns in addition to all of the screens.  And, why not a reverse screen?. Fake a screen to CMAC and go back the other way to a TE or WR. I would have tried a HB option pass once/when the defense started creeping up to the LOS. They could have even tried a flea flicker. PJ's got arm. If we could have got someone running free down the field PJ probably could have hit him. PJ is scary when a defender is around football.

It's not hard to defend a team that you know has no intention of throwing the ball 10 yards down the field. Awful game plan.

I'd cut PJ today if I were in charge. He may be a nice guy but he is truly a waste of a roster spot. He simply cannot play QB at the NFL level.

 I'd use Eason next week if Baker and Sam are unable to play. If he played well I'd ride with him the rest of the season. We know Baker and Sam won't both be back next year. I can't see either of them returning as starters. Matt is the only QB we have under contract. Eason can get some valuable playing time and we can get a good chance to evaluate him. If he's decent we can use him as a spot starter/backup when we draft our QB in the first round next year.

5 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

What was he going to do with PJ? Have him toss the inevitable pick before they cross to 30? The only thing they could do to keep from getting blown out was run the ball.  PJ Walker wasn't going to throw anything other than interceptions if you have him throwing more than you absolutely have to. 

You’re right Jon. That’s the reason why PJ shouldn’t even be in the league. If you can’t trust your QB to throw 10 yards downfield then you need another guy behind center. I think Eason would have at least made the game interesting to watch. If I were in charge I’d let PJ go tomorrow (or demote) him to the practice squad and replace him with Eason.

Herndon Hooker reminds me of the old Tampa QB, Doug Williams. If he ended up in the right city and got the right coaching, he may end up better than both of them.

30 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

Hes not on a roster atm.  No idea why we wouldnt put him on the practice squad at least in our current situation.

He’s certainly better than PJ Walker

13 minutes ago, Chief Keek said:

This team is in good shape, there's no need to blow it up and trade away everyone. The only missing pieces are QB and HC. They just need to finish burning some sage to clear out the Temple/Baylor spirits still in the building and they'll be good to goo.

I wouldn’t say “good shape”, but I agree that we have some nice pieces in place. I’d move on from Robbie ASAP, but I’d keep Christian and DJ unless they demanded a trade. If we got the missing pieces you pointed out (HC and QB) we could challenge for a division title next year,  especially if Brady retires from Tampa.

I love what Dabol is doing with the Giants. And look what Zac Taylor did with the Bengals when he got the right QB and surrounded him with the right weapons. They went from last place to the SuperBowl in one season.

1 minute ago, Harbingers said:

Nah, we were hamstrung by O game plan and PJ. Eason or what ever his name is got throws out immediately. Had he practiced with the ones and started I bet we would have won. 

I was thinking the same thing. We need to cut or trade Robbie this week and let Marshall start the rest of the year so we can see what we have.  I’d start Eason next week. If he played well I’d consider riding him for the rest of the year even when Darnold and Mayfield are healthy. PJ wouldn’t see the field again.

 Worst case we loose out, get the first pick in then draft, and get Eason enough experience to become a viable backup/spot starter to our 1st round QB selection.

The Rams have looked like trash pretty much all season. All we did was give them back their confidence. Their defense is going to come out of this game all pumped up. But, any NFL caliber defense is going to look good against a  PJ Walker led offense. The guy can’t be trusted to throw the ball 10 yards downfield.

I wonder if Brady or Mahomes would have got a roughing call if they took the hit that knocked PJ out of the game?

1 minute ago, Rags said:

I feel you, I like Wilks.

This offense is anemic, worse than last year somehow. Sam Darnold is still looking like our best QB on the roster. 

At least we're hitting rock bottom in a year with some intriguing QB prospects.

If we pick a QB with our first pick, then we need to just go ahead and start him next season even if Matt Corrall looks good in the preseason.

2 minutes ago, Rubi said:

PJ isn’t a pro QB - this game is so brutal 

He shouldn’t be on an NFL roster. If we can sign a viable backup to replace him then PJ should be cut this week. Look at what NE is doing with their 3rd string QB Bailey Zappe