SCO96

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

If we take OL WR CB or Edge in the first, I will understand.

If we take a long snapper, K, P, TE, or RB in the first, I will be sending Morgan an angry letter--that you can be sure of.
 

As CSX pointed out we don't have a first round pick.

I'm definitely on board with taking OL or WR @ #33. I do disagree with your Take on TE. I can see getting upset if we took a JAG. If we could find a Kelce, LaPorta,  or Kittles type talent then I could understand why the FO would consider it.

A solid TE acts a security blanket on 3rd an short.

Our QB doesn't have the strongest arm. A solid TE can work the intermediate area of the field where Bryce is more effective.

A solid TE is usually a scoring threat in the redzone.

A solid TE usually helps the running game.

If he could find a TE who could catch 70-75 passes, score 6-8 TDs, and go over 800 yards for the season he would be well worth the 33rd pick of the draft. 

4 hours ago, UNCrules2187 said:

We tried the homegrown route with WRs many times and the only real one we hit on since Smitty we traded away.

Look at all the WR busts or nonfactors we've drafted in the first 3 rounds since we hit on Smitty (leaving out Mingo because it's too early to tell but early returns were pretty meh):

• Terrace Marshall (2nd round)
• Curtis Samuel (2nd round)
• Devin Funchess (2nd round)
• Kelvin Benjamin (1st round)
• Brandon LaFell (3rd round)
• Armanti Edwards (3rd round)
• Dwyane Jarrett (2nd round)
• Keary Colbert (2nd round) 

The above list of players is an example of why I have no faith in the Panther scouting department. That's a lot of WRs to miss on, especially that high in the draft (rounds 1-3). Our TE selections haven't been any better. The two best TEs to play for our organization (Wesley Walls and Greg Olsen) were not drafted by the Panthers. Outside of those 2 guys, I can't think of another TE drafted by the Panther who ever became an impact player. DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart were good running backs. How many other good RB's have we drafted besides those two and CMC? NOTE: Deshawn Foster gets an honorable shout out, but injuries derailed his promising career.

For years I've wondered if our poor drafts in general are due to poor talent evaluation from the scouts. I'd love to see how our draft board compares to the other teams around the NFL. I'm hoping things will improve with Dan Morgan as the GM. I think a lot of former players are better at talent evaluation when they work in the front office (in any capacity).

1 hour ago, 3838 said:

So... with Bryce having a window of 2.7 sec do we go for "deep threat speedsters" or someone that has a "knack for getting open" ( a McConkey type) at WR position?

I think every football fan loves to see their team go deep with the long ball.

That said, we have a QB with a questionable arm and a below average o-line protecting him. I'd gladly settle for a WR who can get open quickly, help move the chains, and increase our YAC stat (which had to be near the bottom of the league in 2023). A receiving threat like that would open up things for everyone else because defenses would then have to adapt their game plans to deal with him. Honestly, I'd be excited if we took a TE who could get open on a regular basis and be a scoring threat in the red zone. 

Any receiver who can improve Bryce's 5.5 yards per attempt and 179.8 yards per game average and increase his 11 TD passes would be a welcome addition. 

2 hours ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

The Panthers must be kicking themselves for letting him go....see what I did there? I'll see myself out...

You're so "punny"! 

Do you get it, "punny"? 

32 minutes ago, CRA said:

he was picked dead last in the 7th round and this is his first season as the starting QB.  He is getting paid 2 peanuts and a cracker jack.  I don't care what the Skip Bayless type shows want to talk about.    If you want to make a long list of why they lost that game.....he isn't one of the top subjects/reasons.  And that's who you are spending your time talking about and fixated on. 

Brock Purdy has and continues to overachieve.  He isn't why they lost the Super Bowl.  The folks around him turning it over, missing kicks, etc. are why they lost.  

YES, the team around him is why they made the Super Bowl.  And they are the ones who lost it and didn't get it done.  

 

 

Good post. 

Shanahan didn't run the ball enough in the 2nd half.

The O-line had several critical penalties that were absolute drive killers for the 49ers.

The punt team muffed a kick that led to a TD one play later and a massive momentum shift.

 CMC fumbled in the red zone on the first drive of the game.

The Kicker missed an extra point. 

All of the above were the major reasons for the loss. I don't care how talented team is or who is behind center, you can't make those types of mistakes against a Mahomes/Reid team in the playoffs and expect to win a close game down the stretch. 

Once in the 4th quarter, and Once in the OT Brock Purdy walked off the field with his team leading the game and both times the defense failed to hold up on their end.

But, a lot of people insist that Purdy should have won the game because of his stocked roster. If the stocked roster makes mistakes or fails to make impact plays how is that a reflection of Purdy?

Most of us agree that Purdy didn't play lights out last night, but he wasn't terrible. However, there is one thing he is going to have to do going forward. He's going to have to learn how to play off script when things breakdown or when the game plan isn't working. Shanahan, as someone pointed out, has had double digit lead in all 3 of his SB loses...with 3 different QB's. A lot of the blame has to fall on him. Purdy will probably end up having to carry his coach instead of the other way around if the 49ers are going to get over the hump and win a SB.

17 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Really surprised no one has been calling out Wilks for playing 5 DBs off the ball on KC's final drive. After they converted the 4th and 1 MVS caught a 3 yard pass, broke a tackle going backwards and ended up losing 3 yards. Instead of playing up in the WRs faces like they were doing all game he had ALL of his DBs 5+ yards back off the ball allowing easy completions for Mahomes and Co. to go right down the field. It doesn't surprise me it fits Wilks's conservative nature and further reinforces why I'm glad we didn't choose him for a HC. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fired for that last drive and the overall struggles the 49ers defense had this season.

That loose coverage resulted in several plays where KC had guys running wide open downfield on crossing routes during critical moments of the game. Overall, I think the 49ers gave a solid effort, but they didn't come thru when the game was on the line.

23 minutes ago, frankw said:

Momentum is a real thing. The Niners had all the momentum throughout most of the first half. They peaked early like I noticed.

Then in the 3rd quarter SF gave their best offensive weapon 2 touches. This combined with the muffed punt changed the entire complexion of the game.

24 minutes ago, frankw said:

I would not say the defense didn't make stops though. They played pretty damn stout considering they were up against a 3 time champion.

I agree to a point. But, when they had chance to prevent a tie in the 4th quarter they didn't. When they had a chance to prevent a game winning TD or game tying FG in overtime they failed again, despite the fact that the defense had plenty of time to rest due to the brake between regulation and OT...and the fact that the 49er FG drive took over 8 minutes off of the OT play clock.

27 minutes ago, frankw said:

I honestly don't even fault the defense that much for the final drive against Mahomes. The Niners received the ball first. That field goal was the final nail.

I don't agree with your reasoning on this one. If the 49ers have an elite defense it isn't unreasonable to expect them to keep a team off of the scoreboard in OT to win the game...or at the minimum hold them to 3 and prolong the game. Nope, they let the Chiefs march right down the field and get a TD. 

30 minutes ago, frankw said:

Also as others are noting. Coaching overall for the Chiefs was better down the stretch.

Bingo.

Shanahan did a worse job play calling down the stretch and scheming his big play guys open than Reid.  Deebo had 6 touched last night (passing and receiving combined). George Kittle caught 2 passes for 4 yards. Elijah Mitchell had 2 carries for 8 yards.

 Spagnola did a better job neutralizing his opponent in the 2nd half than Wilkes. The KC defense only gave up 3 scores after halftime (including OT)despite not getting any turnovers (I'm not counting the punt which was a special teams turnover caused by a fluke play). The SF defense gave up 2 TDs and 2 FG's for a total of 4 scores.

The coaching played a huge part in the loss which is why I don't see why someone want to pin the loss largely on Purdy.

56 minutes ago, frankw said:

The defense is stacked. He has generational talent on both sides of the ball. When they kicked that FG in overtime it was a wrap. Your QB has to get you into the end zone.

Or, maybe the Niners' highly touted defense needs to make a stop when it counts. If your team can't stop a team from getting game tying or game winning drives with the game on the line, can your really argue that its "stacked" or "elite"?

After halftime it seemed like every time the Chiefs needed to score they did. The KC had guys running wide open in the 2nd half. Even Romo commented on how easy those zone coverages were being exploited.

17 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Its not even hating anymore. Everyone knows the 49ers roster is elite. Like damn how much more does he need?

 

It would be unfair if you gave any elite QB that 49ers roster. Purdy has to close the deal if you want to be elite. Can you imagine if Cam had those weapons in his prime?

 

Dude made a SB with Olsen and trash WRs.

Purdy is a 2nd year player drafted in the 7th round. He was forced to come in and start in 2022 after Trey Lance (a first round pick) got hurt and never relinquished the job. 2023 was the first time Purdy started a complete 17 game season. Even the great Patrick Mahomes sat the bench during his rookie year. 

I blame this loss largely on KC winning the coaching battle in the 2nd half. If Reid had been coaching that Niners offense with Purdy behind center last night I'm sure he would have dialed up some plays to get Deebo and Kittles more involved. Neither guy had a "major impact" in the SB and it ended up hurting SF in the end.

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Doesn't really matter how many backs Shanahan has on the roster if he continues to abandon the run.

Agreed. But, I don't think Shanahan would abandon the run as much if he had 2 beasts to hand the ball too.

Just now, frankw said:

You guys are going to have to accept this fantasy of McCaffrey winning a Super Bowl on his own isn't going to happen.

No one does it alone.

I actually think Shanahan needs to draft a big back to come in spell MaCaffrey during the game and to use in short yardage situations. Their backup RB is ok, but I think SF could continue to run effectively with CMC on the bench if they could find 6ft+/225lb+ back in the middle rounds of the draft to complement MaCaffrey.

If Shanahan had one of those last night he would have a much better shot at winning that game.

12 minutes ago, frankw said:

Crazy people are still clinging to the narrative that if Shanahan force fed McCaffrey even more they definitely would have won. He had 30 touches already.

Your QB has to get the job done. It was always Purdy vs Mahomes.

MaCaffrey had about 160 total yards in the game. He scored a TD and led his team in rushing and passing yards. Yet, CMC only had 2 touches in the 3rd quarter...the quarter that saw KC get back into the game after the 49er offense stalled and the special teams muffled the punt that resulted in a go ahead TD one play later.

I think Purdy is getting too much blame for this loss.

1)He didn't have any turnovers.

2)He didn't take any big sacks that cost them points or knocked them out of scoring range

3)He didn't fumble away a scoring opportunity in the red-zone (ie:CMC)

4) He wasn't on the field when the muffed punt occurred in the 3rd quarter. This is where KC got the big momentum swing. All Ray-Ray had to do was fall on the ball instead of trying to pick it up to run.

5) He didn't miss any extra points.

When the 49ers needed to score to take the lead or tie the game in the 2nd half, he came through. Had this game been played under the old OT rules he'd be a SB champion today.

Let's not forget that this was his first full season as a starter. Not bad for a 7th round pick. He should get better with time. He could have played better, but I don't see how anyone can blame the loss  mainly on him.

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

There are certain quarterbacks (Jackson, right now) who look unstoppable in a regular season but fade in the playoffs.

I'd say there are certain coaches that do that too.

And then there's Shanahan? 

Does he fade in the playoffs? He fades in the Super Bowl.

I questioned in another thread whether he qualifies as a "chessmaster" head coach. My answer would be no. He's like the kid who's really good at chess and can beat everybody around him, but loses when it goes up against the best of the best.

To be fair, that would have been a pretty good description of Andy Reid as well up to a few years ago, so maybe he has a chance to overcome that.

We'll see.

Shanahan reminds me of Tom Landry.

Landry was super intelligent...and arguably the only guy in NFL history during the SB era who could be his own own offensive and defensive coordinator. Yet, the Cowboys often chocked in big games under Landry. He tended to over analyze things and make big mistakes in crucial moments of championship games. Pete Gent (North Dallas Forty author) has said he never understood how someone so smart would freeze up at the worst possible times.

The Cowboys were preseason favorites to win the championship from 1967-1970 and fell short every year. Each loss was to a less talented team. Landry finally got over the hump in 1971 when Staubach took over at the QB position. 

Shanahan has lost 2 SB's to Reid. And both times his team outplayed KC for the majority of the game. His offense lost their first half momentum in both losses. He was also the OC for Atlanta when they blew a 28-3 to NE and lost the SB. He needs to figure out why his teams can't put games away when it counts. Had his teams scored 1 more TD in the 2nd half in any of the above 3 SB losses, they would have walked away as world champions. 

43 minutes ago, jamos14 said:

 

2. 

 

I think Shannahan has the choker label because he hasn't had an elite QB and is forced to run the ball to have success.  But his play calling stye gets away from the run game too easily.  Especially when it's working.

 

SF wins last night if CMC had 30 carries (which is a lot) but Purdy wasn't doing anything unless a receiver was wide open.  Purdy 38 throws is stupid!    CMC was gashing them all night.

I tend to agree with you on the run game aspect. They should have run it a little more to:

a) wear down the defense and run down the clock

b) Keep Mahomes off of the field .

CMC is a beast. But, he is still a small back. I really think the 49ers should consider drafting a big back in the mid to late rounds. Someone who is about 6'2/235 to complement Christian. They need someone who can convert in those 3rd and short situations. I'd be looking for the type of back that no defender wants to tackle late in games. It would give them a 1-2 punch and keep both backs from tiring during the game.

If Shanahan had our "double trouble" duo of Williams and Stewart, they would have run all over KC last night.

If he had serious reservations about taking the job then its in his best interests, and Washington's, that he turned down the job.

"He is considered a coach who prefers holing up in his office, coming up with game plans and playing with mad scientist vibes rather than leading a locker room."

He may have a good understanding of his limitations. Norv Turner and Wade Phillips were excellent coordinators in their prime. But, neither excelled as a HC.

Another source though said that he didn't like that Commanders executives were "basketball guys" who he believed didn't really know football.

Johnson needs to feel comfortable in the team environment. He very well could be right in his assessment. If he went to D.C. and bombed, it could affect the way he's perceived throughout the NFL for the rest of his coaching career.

I'm looking forward to seeing if he and Campbell can get Detroit over the hump. The really should have made the SB this year.

1 hour ago, KBRed said:

Can I just say…a lot of people are posting these 32nd in the league stats, but not disclosing that our offense was atrocious. The defense was on the field probably 30% more than most teams. Making that number up, but it seems plausible. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/season/2023/seasontype/2

This link should take you to the team stats for offense across the NFL this year. We had the fewest passing yards and fewest total yards in the league this season. We were 20th in the league in rushing. We scored a league low 13.9 points per game...a slightly skewed stat because we were shut out the last two games of the season. Carolina was clearly the worst offensive team in the NFL for the 2023 season.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/defense/season/2023/seasontype/2

If you click on the tab towards the middle of the scree you can see the team defensive rankings. In terms of total yards allowed, we ranked 4th with 293.9 yards per game. We ranked 29th in points per game allowed with 24.5 pts.

Point differential -10.6 points per game. Most successful teams are going to have a positive point differential or at least break even during the course of the season.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/turnovers/season/2023/seasontype/2

Carolina was -9 in turnover differential (26th in the NFL)

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/car/table//sort/sacks/dir/desc

We only had 28 sacks as a team

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/car/table//sort/interceptions/dir/desc

The team had  8 INTS.

Those last stats are down from 2022.

When you factor in the bad offense, injuries, and lack of sacks/INTS, lack of a  true superstar, the defense was more than respectable in 2023. 

11 minutes ago, countryboi said:

Cowboys VP of player personnel Will McClay is now my favorite GM choice. 

He's done a great job in the Cowboy front office. I think he'd be a good addition for our organization...which means he won't get the job. I fear this could be a Rooney Rule interview and nothing more.

I wouldn't bother trying to tag and trade him unless had already worked out a deal with another team and he was aware of what was going down . You may not find a buyer. If we don't want to pay him $30 mil per year, why would we expect someone else to after an 8 sack season? Then we could be stuck with him on a big 1 year deal and go an entire season with him "playing scared" again. Or, Burns could decide to hold out over the tag issue and create a messy preseason distraction.

Id be ok just let him walk. We might be able to get a 3rd round comp pick for him in 2025.

The Raider messed up by not keeping the guy (I forgot his name) who replaced Gruden when he was fired. He actually got them to the playoffs only to be replaced by Josh McDaniel, who has now been fired. McDaniel get fired and Pierce comes in and goes 5-4 to close the season.  Marc Davis has a coach already on the staff that has changed the tone in the locker room. He could end up alienating the locker room if Pierce doesn't get a fair shot.

If I were a talented WR (or TE) with more than one solid offer to change teams, then playing for the Panthers would be my last option. I’d only consider Carolina if

1 )no other team made me an offer 

2) the other offers were extremely low and below market value 

3) I had a burning desire to live in the Carolina for personal reasons

Outside of the above reasons, I can’t think of another reason for a top FA to come to Charlotte.

We are literally the worst team in the NFL record wise

We appear to have the worst owner in the NFL.

We arguably have the worst GM and front office in NFL

We have had 6 straight losing seasons and never had back to back winning seasons in almost 30 years of existence.

Our 1st round QB not shown (at least so far) that he can become even a solid starter in the league.

No first round pick in 2024.

I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed if they expect a horde of top free agents to pack their bags and head to the Carolinas this offseason.

Hopefully an important lesson has been learned. Never trade up into the top 5 for a QB unless the team is solid on both sides of the ball is truly only a playmaking QB away from contending for a conference title.

Too much draft capital is used to make such a move; and sometime as was our case...you may lose a talented player in the deal. 

I wouldn't trust Fitterer to draft a fantasy team. But, a good GM could have filled a lot of holes in the 2023 draft if we had kept the picks we had on Day 1 (ie no trade up for JAGS like DJ Johnson). I would have been content to take Levis in the top 10 for our QB(he has all of the physical tools to play the position). We'd still have DJ Moore at WR.  If you didn't like Levis you could have used that for another position of need and signed a veteran like Dalton or Flacco to hold things steady thru 2023.

The 2024 draft would have been the ideal year to try to move up. Take a look at the guys who may be coming out this year (from the USA Today site).

1. Jayden Daniels, LSU (QBR: 95.7)
2. Bo Nix, Oregon (90.9)
3. J.J. McCarthy, Michigan (89.3)
4. Michael Penix Jr., Washington (83.2)
5. Caleb Williams, Southern California (82.1)
6. Jordan Travis, Florida State (80.0)
7. Drake Maye, North Carolina (79.5)
8. Quinn Ewers, Texas (78.9)
9. Michael Pratt, Tulane (65.8)
10. Shedeur Sanders, Colorado (63.0)

I think most of us would take any of these guys over Bryce based on his 2023 season in Carolina if we had a do over. One of these QB's would have likely fallen to us. Or, we could be in a position to move up because the talent from the  2023 draft should have moved us closer to contending in the NFC.

Will Levis wasn't picked until round 2. I thought he would have been an excellent choice for us at our original spot in the top 10. If we had stayed put we would have had him inside the top 10 and kept last years #2, this years #1, the #2 in 2025, and DJ Moore.

Too many people think you have to trade up into the top 5 to get a franchise QB. If you are set on both sides of the ball and the team is in a position to compete with the QB already on the roster, move up and get your guy. If the team is poor, use the picks to build a solid roster or let a talented prospect fall to you and keep your picks. It's too expensive to give away all of those picks. Hopefully we've learned our lesson.

33 minutes ago, Johnstonny said:

Yea....they need to sit this kid let him reflect and work on his game in the offseason... also just to evaluate the talent, or lack thereof, around us with Dalton running the show.... we should get a grip on whether Bryce is most of the problem or is it really a conglomeration of sht...or both.

At one time I would have said that Bryce needs all of the snaps that he can get. After watching his last two game, I think I may be inclined to agree with you. If Dalton comes in and everyone starts playing better in the dame scheme, then we know BY is the main issue. 

That could lead him to work on his game in the offseason. He needs to hire a professional QB coach and completely overhaul his game.

Such a move could ruin him mentally. That's a risk worth taking. We're going nowhere with him QB if he continues to play this way. The team really does need to see what the offense would look like with someone else under center.