SCO96

Will Levis wasn't picked until round 2. I thought he would have been an excellent choice for us at our original spot in the top 10. If we had stayed put we would have had him inside the top 10 and kept last years #2, this years #1, the #2 in 2025, and DJ Moore.

Too many people think you have to trade up into the top 5 to get a franchise QB. If you are set on both sides of the ball and the team is in a position to compete with the QB already on the roster, move up and get your guy. If the team is poor, use the picks to build a solid roster or let a talented prospect fall to you and keep your picks. It's too expensive to give away all of those picks. Hopefully we've learned our lesson.

33 minutes ago, Johnstonny said:

Yea....they need to sit this kid let him reflect and work on his game in the offseason... also just to evaluate the talent, or lack thereof, around us with Dalton running the show.... we should get a grip on whether Bryce is most of the problem or is it really a conglomeration of sht...or both.

At one time I would have said that Bryce needs all of the snaps that he can get. After watching his last two game, I think I may be inclined to agree with you. If Dalton comes in and everyone starts playing better in the dame scheme, then we know BY is the main issue. 

That could lead him to work on his game in the offseason. He needs to hire a professional QB coach and completely overhaul his game.

Such a move could ruin him mentally. That's a risk worth taking. We're going nowhere with him QB if he continues to play this way. The team really does need to see what the offense would look like with someone else under center.

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

And Smith's ceiling was as a game managing average QB while playing for arguably the greatest offensive coach of all-time.

 Here’s the sad thing, if we had Alex Smith at his peak, we’d probably rule the NFC South (the worst division in pro football) for the rest of the decade.

I wouldn’t take the job if Tepper  told me that BY had to go into the season as starter. I’d Id insist that he had to earn the job in the  preseason to start in 2024. If Dalton, another FA, or a lower drafted QB played the best ball so be it.

14 minutes ago, Ted Ginn Jr.'s Hands said:

So we aren't getting 2 1sts and a 2nd.   What is his trade value now?    1st and a 3rd?   Would probably be a late 1st.

Based on how bad this team is in 2023, Burn's lackluster season, and no 1st round pick in 2024, I’d take a late first round pick for Burns right now.

Forget about not taking the Rams offer for 2024 and 2025 draft choices. Scott F’s draft record does little to inspire confidence. He’d probably blow those picks on JAGs that wouldn’t start on any contender in the NFL.

If a solid QB prospect drops to #32 you almost have to take him. Last month I would have said go with the best interior lineman or LT prospect because I don’t trust Scott F to draft a competent WR if his life depended on it. Now, I can’t imagine having to sit through another season of BY playing this poorly at the QB position. 
 

Anything can happen, but I don’t see any chance of us making the playoffs with Young at QB unless our division continues to suck and somehow we become like the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, or 2001 Bucs on defense and rely on them to win games.

40 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

I would Go BPA between OL, TE, or WR without question. Every penny in cap I had available would be spent on the top available FA WR’s. You have to give Bryce every opportunity to succeed next year to properly evaluate him to see if he’s the future or not. 

I see things pretty much the way you do. Those 3 positions need to be our top priority. But, do you really think a top FA is going to want to join the worst organization in NFL?

If I was in my prime and had the power to choose my fate, you couldn’t pay me enough to join the current day Carolina Panthers. I know this sounds bad, but I’d be giddy if we found a legit #2 to complement Theilan in the slot and took our chances on speed receiver in round 2. Unfortunately, I have no faith in Scott F. To pick the right guy after the round 2 selections of TMJ and Mingo.

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

If the right QB is there, definitely QB.  The TE class is weak.  Interior OL can be had later.

Tepper isn't likely to throw in the towel on Bryce after year one and would probably veto that but  I definitely understand your reasoning.

You mentioned that the TE class was weak. Do you have any insight into the LT and WR classes?

I wouldn't be opposed to taking a 2nd round center if had the potential to turn into Ryan Kalil or Creed Humphry for the rest of the decade. Sure up the center position with a STUD, Put Brady at LT (his natural position), move Ekwonu inside and our O-line would improve immediately.

In this scenario you go into the 2024 draft knowing that Bryce will be starting the season as the #1 QB on the depth chart. What would be your top priority in round 2: O-line, WR, TE, dare I say it…pick another QB, or would you trade down for additional choices (big mistake if you ask me)?

I think this draft is critical. I just don’t see Carolina acquiring top free agents after the disastrous 2023 season. This team is sorely lacking in talent so we can’t afford to miss on this pick. We need to find a starter in the 2nd round (and round 3 to be honest).

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not sure how hard we've tried. How hard can you really coach the owner's chosen one? I bet he got coached harder by Saban at Alabama than he has been here simply because Saban ain't afraid of stepping on toes.

I totally agree with you on this. Bryce fooled a lot of people since he played at BAMA, but even the anti-Bryce crowd will admit he didn't look this bad in college. He made a lot of big time throws in college. I'm sure playing on a stocked roster helped, but he still had to deliver the ball to the receivers. Saban wouldn't have started him otherwise.

If BY's game tape at Alabama looked as bad as it has thru 12 games this season I don't think he would have even been drafted.

I think we are all in agreement that the Carolina organization made the wrong choice at QB and gave up way too much capital in doing so. That said, we need to slow down before we totally bail ship on Bryce Young. 

We're stuck with him for at least another year. The team needs to go all in on improving his situation next season. Adding a WR (or TE) who can get separation, better interior line protection, and improving the LT play are a must to not only better evaluate Bryce, but to also lay the proper foundation for a potential new guy to come in 2025 if BY fails to improve in 2024.

A large majority of next seasons success falls on Bryce himself. He needs to realize that he's not a good NFL QB. If he's going to have a successful career in the league, then he's going to have to work his butt off this offseason. He needs to beg Tepper to find him a QB coach who'll be hard on him. He needs someone to coach him on his footwork, his throwing mechanics, teach him how to play under center, and address, any other weaknesses in his game. As someone said earlier, he's going have to reinvent himself and become a new QB. Is it likely he'll live up to his draft slot, probably not. But, it ain't impossible. Bryce strikes me as the type of person who'll at least be willing to put in the work to get better, but he needs a lot of coaching and an offense that will maximize his ability.

Bulking up wouldn't be a bad thing.  He needs to get stronger to endure QB hits; and to also improve his ability to push the ball downfield with better velocity. Tepper, Bryce, and the new HC all need to enter 2024 on the same page and go all out to improve Bryce's passing ability because at the present time he isn't good enough to lead a team to the playoffs in a crappy division; and definitely not into championship contention.

6 minutes ago, Mage said:

Why?

Let him guide us to a No. 1 Overall Pick in 2024.  There is no point in benching him for Andy Dalton.  Bryce will either get better or he will continue to doom us.  

I hate the idea of giving Chicago the #1 pick but if we keep up our current level of play we should at worst get the one of the first 3 picks of the 2nd round. It's not out of the realm of possibility that a first round talent may fall into our lap at WR or O-line. We could even find a starter at a position of need at the top of the 3rd round.

Bryce needs to play as much as possible for the rest of the year. He needs to get more acclimated to the NFL game speed;  and our next HC needs an extensive reel of game tape. If we can find a way to shore up that O-line, a creative coach "might just be able" to create a scheme to improve BY's game and make him serviceable or even above average. 

 I certainly wouldn't be crushed if the team made the decision to bring in another QB in 2024. That said, it's not all on Bryce.

The announcers have pointed out several times that the receivers are not getting separation and too many routes simply have them running 10 yards down field and turning around. The big play to Mingo on the 3rd down TD drive was one of the few routes that showed some imagination.  

We need a new passing philosophy and better route concepts.

18 minutes ago, BrianS said:

The only thing that comes to mind is "Corey Brown is a nice young man.  Philly catches the ball."

Here’s the sad thing about the 2023 Panthers. An argument could be made that he was a better receiver than anyone WR on the current roster with the exception of Adam Theilan.

24 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

As far as the roster, I can tell you from reporting that Tepper feels the roster is well constructed as far as defense and special teams, only the offense is an issue, and that of course was Frank Reich's area.

The impression I get from that is that Tepper may not be looking to make major changes to the front office.

If Tepper feels that way then we really have a big problem!

The current GM traded down twice from the top 40 in 2021 to get TMJ in the low 50's. He's had no positive impact on this team at all. Two picks later the Chiefs picked an all-Pro caliber center in Creed Humphrey. He took Mingo in the 2nd round. Once again no impact.

We had a chance to cut bait with Ian Thomas, another low impact and under achieving player. Scott e gave him an extension! Tommy Tremble has shown flashes, but he's never been given the chance to be the guy, so we still don't really know what he can do as a TE. 

Our receiving core is the worst in the NFL. With the except

The O-line can't protect Bryce Young. Weak at every spot on the O-line except RT(T. Moton) , the only starting lineman on the team that Scott didn't acquire via FA or the draft.

With the exception of Adam Theilan, who is really suited as a #3 at this stage in his career, we don't have a skill position player who could start on another team in the NFL. With the exception of Moton and a "healthy" A. Corbett, I'm not sure if any of our lineman could start on a playoff caliber team in the NFL. 

We're not picking solid players on the offensive side of the ball, and that responsibility lies with the Fitterer, the scouts, and the rest of the front office.

58 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Seriously what coach or player is going to want to come here?

But hey.  We got Beyoncé and a “full stadium (of opposing fans)”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hMqZSPiLRE

Tepper may have his faults, but I don't see the bid deal with this story. The NFL is a copy cat league. Everyone steals plays and concepts from one another. At times coaches will take advice from people not on the staff.

As far back as SB 6, Richard Nixon was able to get Don Shula to call a pass play to Paul Warfield against the Cowboys. I've heard of NFL coaches taking pIays from High School and Collegiate coaches and players, family members, or company employees. Heck, Andy Reid once took a play from a janitor while he was in Green Bay...and scored a TD  Take a look at the link above.

The article stated he made a suggestion for a single play. If that's the worst thing he's done I think we'd all feel much better about his ownership of the team. Unfortunately, we've more concerning issues with him.

5 minutes ago, Daeavorn said:

We absolutely need to keep Brown over Burns if we are forced to choose. I also agree that Luvu needs to be brought back as well. We need to start drafting actual 1 Tech DL now that have some pass rushing ability. 

The secondary seems very difficult to determine. After this season no one should expect Horn to ever be healthy which makes DJax our CB1 which he just isnt quite good enough to do. I think hes a fine CB2.

We need to prioritize IOL, IDL, CB and WR next draft. Probably WR and IOL first id say.

I agree with everything your post.

Burns isn't worth 30 mil a year based on this season's production. I'd let him go over Brown...IF...I had the interior DL you described above to compliment Brown. In fact, I think Brown's sacks would/could go up if he had another interior guy to bring some pressure.

We need help at all of the positions cited in your post, but I have no faith in the current FO to properly address any of those positions in the 2024 draft, especially without a #1 draft choice. The thought of Fitterer drafting a WR in round two terrifies me after the TMJ and Mingo selections.

I think Derrick Brown is a good player. But, if he is the best player on your team, then your team has problems. He has looked good this season, but for all of the tackles this year he only has 1 sack. That isn’t that surprising really…he only has 7 sacks for the 4 seasons he’s been in Carolina. 

I know a DTs production cannot be measure in sacks alone. A great DT is often doubled. This can result in more sack opportunities for other defensive lineman. Brown gets doubled a lot, but his presence doesn’t seem to make the other lineman on the team that much better.
 

The franchise tag for a DT in 2023 was $18,937,000. It should be closer to $20 mil in 2024. Is D. Brown really worth $20 mil a year? People are saying that we should try to move Burns for a #1 pick because he wants $30 mil a season. I’d move Brown for a #1 before I’d pay him over $20 mil per season, which is what the franchise tag will likely be in 2025, the year he is due to be a free agent. I think you can find a player to give you similar production but at much lower cost. If a team offered me a #1 for Brown in the offseason I take that deal in a heart beat .

16 hours ago, CPcavedweller said:

Continuing to lose games could shore up the Bears.

Imagine a world where the off-load Fields for three 2nd round pics and a future 1st, get Drake Maye, get Marvin Harrison Jr. hire Ben Johnson as their HC, and now have DJ Moore to go along with the best receiver in recent history, two generational talents to go along with a generational talent as a head coach.

Bears could be set for a decade. And that means if we ever hope to win, we have to go through them. 

Only a clueless GM would give up 3 2nd round picks for Justin Fields AND A FUTURE FIRST. Chicago should be giddy if they could get a #2 or a #3. He hasn't shown that he's anywhere close to leading a team to the playoffs, much less a championship.

I may get reamed for this as a GM, but I'd try to move Fields to Atlanta for a 2 or 3. He's from GA so I doubt he'd mind the change in scenery. He should be able to beat out Desmond Riddler.

I'd even consider a straight up swap for Kyle Pitts and a mid round selection. This would give whichever QB they pick in round 1 (likely Caleb Williams if he comes out ) a chance to throw to DJ Moore, Pitts, and possibly Harrison Jr if they  picked him at #2. The Bears would have arguably the most explosive receiving core in the NFL for the rest of the decade.

9 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

How is Fitterer responsible?

1. You clearly don't know the story behind the Young deal. It was pushed for by Tepper, to the point where if Fitterer didn't do exactly as Tepper wished, Fitterer would've been fired.

2. Fitterer, Reich, McCown, etc. all wanted Stroud. Tepper wanted Young after the Alabama Pro Day where he was woo'd by Nick Saban and his crony crew 

3. Tepper hired Reich. Fitterer wanted to retain Wilks which is the only reason Wilks ever made it to the final interviews.

4. Fitterer isn't stupid enough to have traded up for Stroud or for Young. He comes from the Seahawk's where you trade down and make value picks on Day 3 that build the core of a team.

You are clueless as to what's gone on. 

I'd say let Fitterer do the job you hired him to do. Go on a permanent vacation Tepper.

 

This is an interesting post. Are you privy to some inside information? I know sometimes you can hear stuff from people/sources in the know that sounds crazy to people who are less informed. If what you're saying is true it explains a lot.

1 hour ago, frankw said:

I absolutely will commend him on his toughness.

There is concern about arm strength. I mean we've been talking about his issues with the deep ball going back to his pro day. Back in training camp at fan fest between him Dalton and Corral he was by a significant margin the worst in deep throw drills. We chalked it up to chemistry and new offense.

Beyond that his movements within the pocket and footwork are a big concern. He has become accustomed to habits that help give him time to see the field. Even then when those work to plan he has that odd hop with some of his throws.

I have to be completely honest there were throws yesterday that Levis made that I simply cannot see Bryce Young making. That's what he's going to have to prove at this level.

All we can do from here is wonder how much of the struggles of the OL are contributing.

But if we have to surround him with a stellar supporting cast from top to bottom we lost that trade big time. You make a move like we did for a QB who will elevate their surroundings. I've seen nothing that would qualify.

Based on your prior posts I realize you’re not BY’s biggest fan. That said, this was an honest assessment of his play this season and the problems he’s gonna face going forward. No personal insults…just facts. Bravo sir!

I wasn’t a fan of the trade myself. There are two types of QBs in the NFL:

1) Those that can pull the wagon a lot of the time…ie they make the team better just by being under center.

2)Those that need the wagon to pull them a lot of the time…ie they need everything to align just right in order to succeed under center

Carolina gave up too much draft capital to draft a QB in category 2. To make things worse we don’t have the draft capital or capable FO (at least not the current one) to fix this in one season. Fixing the OL and adding some receiving threats is a must for 2024, but I have no faith in the front office to do so …at least not as long as the current regime is in place.

24 minutes ago, frankw said:

Honestly I will not be surprised at all if he's retained. He's a proper yes man for Tepper and they seem to get along quite well.

I hate what you just posted. Unfortunately, you are probably correct in your analysis. 

17 minutes ago, hepcat said:

What the f*ck reality are we living in? Two coaches fired in season two years in a row

Riverboat Ron got fired in-season as well, despite having a legitimate reason for his last two losing seasons in Carolina (2018-2019). Cam was hurt both seasons which resulted in erratic/mediocre play at the QB position.

17 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

It actually should have been addressed at 'Bama. He's so far along with this habit it will be hard to correct.  It would HAVE to be done in the offseason, but even then, the results may be disappointing.  Remember, they tried to correct Cam's footwork and he tired it for a while before going back to what he was comfortable doing.

Some thing may be hard to fix. But, having him take a deeper drop to allow routes to properly develop and stepping into his throws shouldn't be insurmountable issues.

Have you had time to watch the tape? It's a hard watch and about a half hour long. Despite the length it's interesting and taught me a few things about the passing game. Kurt cited a play where Bryce did everything correct with the read, drop, and throwing mechanics (22:30 mark of the video) and delivered a great pass the Adam. Bryce may never be great, but with better coaching he can definitely be better.

14 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Serious question, if a rookie QB is struggling as is, would you go and change up everything that he's comfortable with?  I mean, if he his performance looks this concerning doing the things he's in 'his zone' doing, could you imagine him having to think about not bouncing, proper drop backs, proper depths of his drop backs, correct feet alignment and getting set prior to identifying his targets?

Dude would be sacked every passing down because his head would be swimming.

At this point in the season you may be right. This should have been addressed in the preseason during the OTA’s and training camp. No QB should be throwing with his feet side by side. He won’t be able to properly push the ball downfield. A QB should be ready to throw at the top of his dropback and have a receiver ready to catch the ball. Bryce is often ready to throw before the receivers are into their breaks. If his drop back was a little deeper he’d probably be able to find an open receiver more often. The timing of the offense, his mechanics, and the poor O-line play are fixable issues. Question I, do we have guys on staff to address these things or is Tepper willing to make the changes necessary to help BY develop his game?