SCO96

I think the 16 game season was perfect. I hated to see the 17th game addition. But, after tonight I can’t help but wonder if the players would be healthier playing 18 games with a 2 bye weeks than having a Thursday night game every week making almost  every team play at least 1 game on 3 days rest.

16 minutes ago, Varking said:

This is standard Thursday Night Football on short rest. 

I had just finished texting some grad school buddies about this topic when I saw your post. We all feel the same as you.

21 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

To have a chance at a 2nd round pick we would have to trade back, as the 2022 2nd is the current starting QB on our team. 

So I FULLY expect us to trade down a time or two in the 2022 draft in an attempt to replace the 2nd we traded. I wouldn't call that cute, I'd call it the smart thing to do. 

What would you trade to recoup the 2nd round choice?

Unless I'm wrong we only have 1 choice in the 1st round this year.

I can't see us trading out of our 1st round slot unless we could get a later choice in the same round & that team's 2nd round pick as well. Unless the bottom fails out in the 2nd half of the season this team could very well end up competing for a playoff spot which puts our draft pick in the late teens or early 20's. I can't see anyone making the deal I just outlined above...unless they're really desperate to move up...which of course could happen.

4 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Regarding next year's draft, it has to be center and LT.  Much, MUCH harder spots to fill adequately than guard.  We have two young guards with Brown and Christensen that simply hasn't had the reps yet.  I know our guard play is right now is sorely lacking, but again, in the grand scheme of things, those are easier fixes.

In theory you are absolutely right. However, you know how the draft is in some years. Some classes have great lineman. Other years the talent isn't quite as good. I'd hate to take a LT (or center)out of desperation like we did with Little in the 2nd round a couple of years ago. I have a feeling we ain't gonna be drafting in the top 10 this year. The best LT's "could be gone" by the time we're on the clock. If a stud guard is on the board and he's better highest ranked remaining Center or LT, I'd be in favor of taking the guard...unless we had a more pressing need at another position.

4 minutes ago, imminent rogaine said:

Just spend 90% of our draft capital on line his year. If tackle isn’t there in round 1 and we spend a first round pick on a guard or a center, so be it. Time for talent infusion. 

A lot of people think this may be a bit drastic. But, I definitely understand your point of view. With the exception of RT, we could literally draft the best offensive lineman at any position in the 1st round (especially in the interior as you mentioned) of the 2022 draft and have an immediate improvement on the O-line. 

I don't think this is the year to get cute by trading back to acquire more choices if you have a shot to get a blue chip interior lineman in the 1st (or early 2nd) round. Moton is under contract now with a solid deal. If we can get Christensen ready to start (at either LT or G), we could double dip on lineman early in the draft and have literally have 4 starters on rookie contracts for 3 consecutive seasons.

2 hours ago, frankw said:

He is on pace for 500 touches which would be most in nfl history a record that has been held by James Wilder since 1984. They just paid one of their top wideouts 37 million dollars. Spread the ball around.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WildJa00.htm

Click on the link to see James Wilder's career stats. He had two great seasons back to back at ages  26 and 27. He had 492 touches in 1984 and 418 in 1985. He started all 16 games and rushed for over a 1,000 yards in both seasons. He also had 138 receptions over that period.

After 1985, there's a drastic drop-off.

1) Never eclipsed 250 touches after 85'. After 86' he never eclipsed 150 before he retired in 90'

2) Never started 16 games again

3) Never rushed for more than 704 after 85, and never passed 500 after 86.

4) After having 138 receptions in 1984-85, he only had 135 receptions over the next 5 seasons of his career.

Wilder wasn't the same type of back as Christian. He was more of an Eddie George type at 6-3/225. i didn't see him play much with Tampa because the Bucs weren't on TV much in SC back in the mid 80's but he was never as shifty as CMac and had an upright running style so he took a lot of hits. He was also older than Christian is now when he had is two great seasons. But it's pretty clear that the heavy work load he had in 1984-1985 caught up with him pretty quickly.

We need need to get Chuba and Royce up to speed blend them into the offense as quickly as possible.

Carolina has too much talent in their backfield for Christian to be getting over 90% of the RB touches (carries and receptions) week in and week out. Years ago when he was with the Cowboys, Tony Dorsett (a small back like Christian) said Tom Landry rarely let him carry the ball more than 20 times a game. People who remember that era will recall that he shared carries with Robert Newhouse , Preston Pearson, and Ron Springs. In fact he was often on the bench early in his career for 3rd down and Pearson came in as a 3rd down specialty back. Dorsett said he resented it earlier in his career, but he realized later that it prolonged his career.

I'm not saying Christian should be used exactly the same way, but Howard should be able to get 8-10 carries a game (approximately 2 per quarter) to lighten the load without really limiting the effectiveness of MacCaffrey. The latter is so talented, you could play them both at the same time by putting him in the slot and lining Howard up at TB (or vice versa to mix things up). 30 touches a game over a 17 game season could end up being a disaster in the making.

I feel the salary cap biased toward QB's has had a lot to do with my decreased interest. I believe the QB position should be the highest paid position in general. But, a QB's success is very dependent on the team surrounding him.

1) A poor offensive line will get even the best QB killed

2) Crappy receiving options limits a QB's effectiveness

3) A poor running game results in too many attempts which increases the risk of sacks/QB hits and INT'S.

4) A poor defense will almost always catch up to even the best offenses in the postseason. Dak Prescott balled last night. He'll probably throw for 35-40 TD's and 5,000 yards this year...and the Cowboys will struggle to make the playoffs because that defense doesn't make stops when it matters.

Yet, QB's are almost making twice as much on average from any other position in the NFL. You can't afford to have a solid playmaker at each level of the defense like you could back in the day once your QB gets past his rookie deal. 

The NFL seems to aiming for a league where every team has a high priced QB to sling the ball game in and game out; and have him face defenses with almost no chance of holding him below 25-28 points per game.

I turned 50 this week. Today's NFL is different game from the one I grew up watching. There were high powered offenses back in the day that favored the pass (Air Coryell Chargers, Walsh's 49ers, etc). But even then, you didn't see Dan Fouts or Joe Montana throwing the ball 50 times a game. Those teams had guys that were still getting close to (or eclipsing) 1,000 yards on the ground. Dallas had 60 yds on the ground last night and Tampa only had 52.

The defenses seem worse too.  Whenever a QB gets the ball in the last 2:00 and only needs a FG or TD to win, I almost always put my bet on the defense to come up short. I think it's easier to pass than it's ever been due to the legalized holding on the O-line and the biased flag calling in the secondary. Godwin pushed off last night on Brady's game winning drive. If that play had been the other way around and the CB had got the INT a flag would have been thrown. I can't think of a more thankless task in the NFL than playing CB these days.

I still follow the league, but I will confess to not nearly as interested in watching the actual games as I did growing up.

Not a fan of either guy, but I'm not surprised we cut Grier. He was a fairly high draft choice (3rd round) chosen as insurance in case CAM had another injury plagued season in 2019 (which he did). When he couldn't beat out Kyle Allen (who I believe was undrafted) I knew he wouldn't be here for the long term...unless he showed some significant improvement (which he never did). In hindsight, Hurney's last draft in 2019 was TERRIBLE...which is really the norm for him.

I wouldn't be surprised if that move was made in order to leave room for a recently cut QB. We'll know soon enough.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/falcons/2021/08/24/josh-rosen-to-sign-falcons-backup-qb/8253466002/

 I didn't see this news on our forum so I decided to make a thread.  Any thoughts on this?

No team can compete in today's game with garbage at the LT position. I admit that I was giddy to see that he wouldn't be taking up a roster spot during the 2021 season. But, after I saw that he was traded for a 7th round pick a couple of thoughts popped into my mind

1) The Panthers must really thought extremely LITTLE (no pun intended) of his chances of becoming even a service backup in the NFL to cut bait with a 2nd round pick in exchange for a 7th round pick.

2) How will Greg Little process this transaction? What does it do to his confidence to know that he's a LT that "almost" went in the 1st round; that was traded away to a team for a 7th round draft choice (the round with the least chance of making a NFL roster) halfway through his rookie deal?  

If he's mentally tough this could light a fire under him and actually make him play better. If so, good for him. I'm inclined to believe he won't even make the Dolphin's final roster, and if he does I doubt it'll be as a LT. He'd probably have to moved inside to the guard position.

After seeing this list, I can't help but feel bad for all of the people who appear to have had their NFL dreams shattered today. And, as someone above pointed out earlier, this is really just the 1st phase/ beginning of the roster cuts.  Teams have to be down to 85 by today, and all the way down to 53 by opening day. A lot more players have dark future at the end of the tunnel.

It shows you just how hard it is to make an NFL team. Those who make it to the pros are very fortunate to achieve their dream of professional football.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/17/jaguars-cut-tim-The Golden Calf of Bristol/

Forget Minshew. We have a shot at The Golden Calf of Bristol now that he's been released was released by the Jaguars today. He's the best backup option on the market right now. If we don't use him as a QB, we can give him a shot at the TE position. 

5 minutes ago, Santee_Panther said:

Of course not Panthers related, but Eli will be an interesting QB case. 

Agreed. I'd have no problem if Eli Manning was enshrined in Canon. The dude beat the most dominant Quarterback/HC duo in NFL history....TWICE. And, both times he did it with by leading game winning drives in the 4th quarter to put the Patriots away. Furthermore, he put up big game performances in NFC title games to get them there by beating the Packers in Lambeau the first time and the 49ers in San Francisco the 2nd time.

You cannot tell the history of the NFL without mentioning Eli Manning. He's like Lynn Swann, he played his best in the biggest games. 

1 hour ago, joemac said:

I may be in the minority here, but I'm not so sure Sam Mills is a Hall of Fame worthy player.  Was he an amazing, emotional leader?  Absolutely.  Was he one of the greatest LBs of all time while on the field?  Ehhhhhh.....IDK about that.  Love the guy, love his message, just not sure if hes one of the greatest ever. 

I don't think the following statement from Bill Parcells pertains to everybody because of the the unglamorous nature of some positions (punter, o-lineman, and even kicker), but I do think it has a strong element of truth for most players "Can you tell the history of the NFL (and I'll add the era in which they played) without mentioning that player?" If the answer is yes, then I can see why a player can be excluded from the Hall of Fame, even if he is a very good player. I think Sam Mills falls into the latter category. If he got in I wouldn't have any objections, but I wouldn't howl in protest if he wasn't enshrined either.

Remember, it's the Hall of Fame, and not the Hall of Statistics. Some players in the Hall appear to have mediocre stats compared to modern day players, and sometimes their contemporaries. But, their impact on the NFL game is substantial; and you literally cannot tell the story of the league during the era/decade in which they played that they played without mentioning them. 

Some feel the Hall of Fame is becoming watered down with too many inductees and at times I can see their point. If there is a dispute about them being a candidate, then that alone may answer the question if they really deserve to be there. At the same time, I agree that some players waited too long to get in, and some deserving players are still being excluded. I'm glad that I don't have too vote on these things.

Good news indeed. Now we have at least one position solidified on the Offensive line for the immediate future. I just clicked a few minutes ago and saw your thread.  Is he still playing under the tag figure in 2021 and receiving a 4 year extension running thru 2025, or does the new deal only cover 2021-2024.

16 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

This is why you draft Fields at 8, and have a QB on a rookie deal for 4 years plus the 5th year option.

I understand the DB need, but I'm not sold on Sam same way I wasn't on TB. And he's locked in for 18M next year. 

Apparently, the Panthers weren't sold on Fields (and for the record a lot of us on this forum weren't either). I had no problem passing on him. I just can't see a QB from Ohio State (a college known for producing below average QB's's in the NFL) lighting up the league in Chicago ( a pro franchise known for producing below average QB's in the NFL). 

Our secondary was terrible last year and our Oline was average at best. Drafting a stud at LT or at CB were good choices at our position in the draft.

If we had drafted a sure starter at LT in round 2 we'd be in good shape. We could sign Moton. By the time the LT contract was up/and or due for an extension in 3-4 years, Moton would likely have received all of his guaranteed money and we'd be in as position to let him walk if needed.

15 minutes ago, KatsAzz said:

A hamstring injury limited Jones to just nine games last season, though he still put up strong numbers when he was on the field. He caught 51 passes for 771 yards and three scores as the Falcons finished the year 4-12. From 2014-19, Jones missed only four games and averaged 104 catches and 1,564 yards per season.

According to The Athletic's Jeff Schultz, the Ravens, 49ers, Patriots, Colts and Chargers are among possible teams that could land Jones. 

According to Breer, a second-round could end up as the eventual compensation for the star wideout

That sounds about right to me. If Julio was 27-28, I wouldn't think twice about giving up a #1 pick for him if were the final piece for title contending team. 

1st rounders get four years plus the fifth year option. I doubt you'd find a receiver coming out of college who would be "more productive" than Jones was from age 27-32.

Players are playing longer these days, but Jones is on the other side of 30 and last year's injury plagued season could be a sign of things to come. Still, I doubt any second round player is going to have as much impact on offense than a healthy Jones over the next couple of seasons. A team that is one or two playmakers away from contending should consider adding him if they have a competent QB and the cap space to sign him.

1 hour ago, CRA said:

They also played with a poo ton of Hall of Famers on the field with them

QB's get too much credit when teams win and too much blame win they lose. In football, no player can do it alone, including the QB. Most of the great QB's played with Hall of Fame talent, or at minimum well constructed teams with above average/Pro bowl players on both sides of the ball. That's why Aaron Rodgers can't get back to a Super Bowl now. He's physically more talented overall than Bradshaw or Aikman, but his teams don't have enough depth to win the big game. 

Bradshaw and Aikman were both blessed by having several years to mature while the coaches and front offices shrewdly constructed their teams via the draft.

33 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Dude.  I always read and appreciate your posts.  But you have to get off this whole Darnold is a bust/reclamation project.  He's been in the league 3 years.  QB is a tough job. that takes more than 3 years to become really good at it.

I took a look at several QBs' first 3 year stats and compared them to Darnold.  I limited the comparison to first round picks that played right away, won championships and became franchise QBs, many HOFs.  These are some of the greatest QBs to ever play.  This does leave some all-time greats out, such as Rogers, Young, Staubach and Kelly - who all got to watch a few years before they were thrown into the fire, plus Marino who never won anything.  I included Brees despite the fact he did get to sit and watch his rookie year.  Other than Peyton Manning, the numbers are extraordinary similar to Darnold's.  No one would say these guys are busts.

QB	Dft. #	Age	Games	Comp	Att	%	Yds	Yds/Game	td	int	sk
Namath	1st	22	36	654	1,302	50%	9,606	267	63	70	-
Griese	4th	22	34	473	938	50%	6,173	182	46	50	-
Bradshaw	1st	22	41	433	899	48%	5,556	136	31	58	87
Elway	1st	23	40	664	1,244	53%	8,152	204	47	52	90
Aikman	1st	23	38	618	1,055	59%	7,082	186	31	46	90
P Manning	1st	22	48	1,014	1,679	60%	12,287	256	85	58	56
Roethlisburger	11th	22	41	644	1,032	62%	8,519	208	52	43	99
Brees	3rd	22	28	540	909	59%	5,807	207	29	31	47
E Manning	1st	23	41	690	1,276	54%	8,049	196	54	44	66
Darnold	3rd	21	38	729	1,219	60%	8,097	213	45	39	98
Average	3rd	22	39	646	1,155	56%	7,933	205	48	49	79

Although Darnold's numbers are consistent with the averages of these great QBs, a couple of other things jumped out at me:

1. He was the youngest starting out.

2. He was sacked more than anyone, suggesting his OL sucked.

3. His completion % was actually much higher than the overall average.

4. All of these guys (including Peyton) threw more INTs than games played (Darnold was right at 1 per game).

Look - we know he was under the microscope in NY and had a shortage of help from his coaching and supporting cast.  His numbers are consistent with a guy picked early by a team bad enough to pick early.  The next 2 years will show how good he can be.  Its just waaaaay to early to call him a bust or reclamation project.  He has just as good of a chance to become a franchise QB as Fields or anyone else.

 

 

Take a look at the two guys with the worst TD/INT ratios: Bradshaw (-17) and Aikman (-15). These two guys ended their careers with a combined record of 7-0 in the Super Bowl. Both started their careers with teams at bottom of the league. By the end of their 5th seasons they were quarterbacking two of the greatest dynasties in NFL history. 

20 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Good reasonable response. I'd disagree on the draft capitol though. Trade values at the top of the draft have skewed big time over the years since the rookie wage scale was implemented. Those picks have become a lot more valuable now that they also don't come with massive contract that pays a rookie like an automatic future HOFer. Those picks allow you to make a bet on elite talent without the contract that type of elite talent normally requires.

 

I know draft slots are practically meaningless with Scott "the mad trader" moving draft choices like chess pieces. But, I think we have all of our choices next season except the #2. We got back the 2022 #4 we lost to NY from the Houston deal this year, so we should go into the off season with 6 draft picks. Teams rarely give up #1 and # 2 choices in the same year. If we had a strong option for QB next year, we should be able to package something "reasonable " to move up and take a shot (ex: 1,3 in 2022, and #2, #4 2023) depending on where we were on the draft board. 

21 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I get it, man. The concept of opportunity cost (and sunk cost for that matter) is lost on most people. Hell, most successful businesses don't even grasp it.

The reality is that successful 1st round bust reclamation projects are pretty rare and we chose to forego the opportunity to add a franchise QB prospect based on one of those long shots. We may consider 1st round QB prospects risky (and to be honest, they are) but history says they're significantly less risky than the option we chose. We'll see how it plays out but we're betting against the odds.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you are making a big assumption that Justin Fields or Mac Jones will be franchise QB's. Based on their school pedigree, both have a greater chance of being bad to average than true "franchise QB's". I just can't see us all looking back on this draft 5 years for now saying, "We missed out on franchise greatness when passed on Fields and/or Jones in the 2021 draft. 

I know the same can be said of Darnold after the failed experience in NY, but that CB selection was exactly what we needed in a division where we face Michael Thomas, Chris Godwin, Mike Evans, Julio Jones, Calvin Ridley, and now Kyle Pitts twice a year. Besides, I don't see any of the QB's selected after Horn at #8 significantly outplaying Darnold this year.

We got enough draft capital to move up next year if we need to take a QB or trade for one, and whoever we would be getting is going to be in lot better situation than Bridgewater was when he came to the team.

6 hours ago, Michael G said:

#39(WE traded it)Jenkins LT/RT

#42 Eicheberg LT

#s 46 and 45- W. Liitle and J. Carman (Both Tackles-Carman maybe better suited for Guard)

#51 S. Cosmi LT/RT

#52 (traded it away again) a LB is taken by Cleveland

#53 Dillon Radunz ---This where I think people start getting upset!!!

#59- We finally take Marshall (WR)

* In additions to the Tackles that went- Richie Grant (s), T. Moehrig (s) and P. Friermuth (TE) we all targets that went in that span before our pick at 59.

 

 

I'm very pleased with how our draft turned out. That said, I was upset when Cosmi came off the board at pick #51. I was ready to throw a shoe at my TV when Radunz was chosen at #53. 

I wasn't familiar with Christensen at all. He wasn't considered one of the top 5 LT's in the class so I didn't read up on him. I didn't know what to think about his selection. I was pleased to find out that PFF actually gave him the highest pass blocking grade of any of the LT's in the 2021 class. His excellent athletic abiliity is another positive. I look forward to seeing him this fall.

1 hour ago, Basbear said:

Did you not like how the draft ended? The whole picture, I too didnt like the double trade down, but looking at the finished class.... hard for me to pick apart the group except for a late&mid round pick. I wanted Sewell bad..REAL BAD, but lion are dicks and you have to draft who is available. 

Just out of curiosity, how do you guys think Sewell felt when the Lions chose him? 

I don't have any insight about this young man at all, but I don't see how any top 10 pick could be thrilled about going to the Detroit Lions. We haven't put together back to back winning seasons in our 25+ year existence, but we have been to TWO Superbowls and on two other occasions we fell one game short (1996) and (2005) since 1995. Detroit last won a world title in 1957 with Bobby Lane as the QB. The Lions have only appeared in one NFC title game (a 1991 defeat to the eventual SB champs Washington Redskins...oops...football team). Detroit has one exactly one playoff win in the last 63 seasons, a 38-6 win in 1991 over Dallas in the divisional playoff. 

Being selected by the Detroit Lions is almost a guarantee that you will never win a playoff game, much less make it to the Super Bowl. I wonder if he was hoping to make to the Panther on the 8th pick?