SCO96

14 hours ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

You have a dogshit team, no draft picks to fix it, your starting QB isn't good, a meddling owner etc.

Like, when Shitterer and Frank Wrong are fired, there will be other openings in the NFL. Any coach/GM worth his poo will hop on anything other than this shitshow.

Assuming Tepper makes a change, If a strong coaching candidate or GM has more than one option for the 2024 I can't see him viewing Carolina as Option A. Someone like an Eric Bienemy who has struggled to get a HC position, or a FO executive who has struggled to get a GM job, would probably take it just for the opportunity.

As you stated we have no 1st round draft choice. On offense we don't appear to have a franchise QB on the roster. We have a solid slot receiver but no real threats on the outside or at the TE position. Our run blocking is mediocre. At times our pass blocking is downright awful.

No consistent pass rush on defense. 1 solid player at LB. Our potential Pro Bowl CB is always hurt. No ball hawks lurk in the secondary. 

Not much on the current roster to work with. It would take a coaching genius (which we don't appear to have) to take the current roster and make them competitive. This means a GM with a shrewd gift for talent evaluation (which we don't appear to have) has to come in and find some draft day steals, overlooked gems from the undrafted guys, and fill in the other gaps with affordable free agents and solid trades.

That's a lot to overcome especially if you have an owner who may be a hindrance to your properly doing your job.

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

David Tepper has sucked the joy out of being a Panthers fan. We were never consistently good but we were good often enough to maintain hope. Tepper has taken hope out back and executed it unceremoniously.

Well put. Here's the ironic thing. Tepper was the one who was preaching that the franchise needed "sustained success" instead of "sustained mediocrity". Tepper was the one who cited the fact that Carolina has never had back to back winning season when he purchased the team.

Well, we may not have had back to back winning seasons prior to Tepper's arrival. But, we were never the laughingstock of the NFL either. We've been to two Super Bowls. Every other other year or Carolina was either a playoff team or at least competing for a playoff spot. Even in our down years we'd win 6-8 games per year and be somewhat competitive on the field.  Our franchise never came close to having 5 straight losing seasons (Six if you count the current year). We've had good/great players on the field who were exciting to watch on Sundays. Right now I don't believe we have one player on the roster that a fan of another fan would pay money to see. 

I was not upset when Jerry Richardson sold the team. I thought it would be the start of a new era of sustained success. Now, I long for the days of "sustained mediocrity". It's much better than "sustained suck"

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

99% of the NFL plays for paychecks.  Professional athletes in general.   If you want Higgins or whoever.....you can almost get anyone if the dollar says so. 

Your "hired mercenary" opinion is probably spot on for a lot of pro athletes. I would feel the same way if I were a low draft pick trying to cash in bigtime on my 2nd  contract. But, if I were already a millionaire (and Tee Higgins already is. He's made over $7mil prior to this season; and will have made $10 mil by the end of 2023 ), I'd want to go out and have fun week in and week out. I couldn't do that if I were playing for a mediocre/bottom tier franchise like Carolina. I'd 25% to 30% less to play for a solid competitor. Millionaires can always find ways to make even more money off of the playing field. But, we all have different ways of viewing things so I'm sure a lot of people on the forum would disagree with my point of view.

1 hour ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Be honest we need a lot around Bryce.

 

Start by retooling this Oline. Start by moving Ickey to guard!

Sign Tee Higgins in FA.

 

Use our draft picks on Oline maybe we find a diamond in the rough.

 

We need help and it's not coming overnight.

I see nothing wrong with the logic expressed in your post. We desperately need a playmaker at WR and help on the O-line. But, Why do you think Tee Higgins, or any top FA in their prime, would want to come play for the Panthers?

This franchise has lost a lot of prestige since Tepper took over the team. I can't  see a top tier FA viewing Carolina as a desirable landing spot. 5 straight losing seasons prior to 2023.  Never had back to back winning seasons in almost 30 years of existence. Terrible front office. Coaching staff(s) seem to struggle developing draft picks after round one.

Unless a guy grew up as a Panther fan, or no other team want to play them what they want, why would top FA want sign Carolina?

18 minutes ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

The scouting report on him coming out of college was that he wasn't great at creating separation, was just really good at catching contested balls and running after the catch.

18 minutes ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

This also doesn't scream worthy of a 2nd round pick. Fitt has doomed this franchise with poor drafting or overvaluing players (ex. DJ Johnson.) Why do teams like GB and Pitt always continually find starters in the later rounds but not the Panthers? We need a major overhaul with the GM and scouting department. 

I was literally getting ready to type your first sentence in a reply to this thread until I saw your post. This is exactly why I have no faith in Fitz as GM going forward. He picked the same type of WR in 2021 with TMJ...who now has permission to seek a trade. We shouldn't be picking JAGS in the 2nd round of the NFL draft at WR when the NFL is becoming more of a passing league every year.

I'm not spending a 2nd round pick on a "possession receiver" unless my roster is deep with talent (on both sides of the ball) and I already have two legit players (who can get separation) at the Wideout positions. You can find possession receivers good hands but poor separation on the 3rd day of the draft or even as undrafted FA's.

21 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

I just hope someone other than Fitt is our GM if we do in fact trade Burns for picks before the deadline.

 

If Fitt is still GM those picks will be for nothing because that guy can't spot talent at all!

 

This is why I don't regret not taking the Rams up on their deal to obtain him for 2 first round draft choices. If we had those choices I wouldn't have any faith that Fitz (or anyone involved in the current front office) to pick the right player. I think we have a major problem with our GM and the scouting department. Scott has shown a tendency to over-value too manyp layers...and this could be due to bad intel from the scouts. We know a GM doesn't have time to do enough college scouting to build the draft board by himself.

1 hour ago, X-Clown said:

Has there ever been a time in NFL history that a team fired his HC to hire one of his coordinators to replace him?

The 1999 Rams kind of fall into that category although their HC wasn't "fired". St. Louis won the SB that year with Dick Vermeil as HC and Mike Martz as OC. Vermeil "retired" after the SB win and Mike Martz was promoted to the HC position the same day.

Those of us who remember that time will recall that the NFL Insiders were saying that Vermeil was "encouraged" to ride off into the sunset in order to let Martz (the hottest OC in the game at that time) take over the reigns of the "Greatest Show on Turf". In hindsight its obvious that Vermeil was not ready to call it quits. Vermeil returned to coach the Chiefs in 2001 and kept the HC job until 2005. The Chiefs were in the top 5 in total yards from from scrimmage every year he was there.  Vermeil left that Rams team in good shape. I've always believed he would have got another SB win with that squad. I don't think Belichick would have outcoached Vermeil the way he outcoached Martz in the Patriots 1st SB win in 2001.

4 minutes ago, mickeye76 said:

In a perfect world we would have a 1 and 2 WR that can stretch the field, win contested catches and pile up YAC.  Then Adam work the middle and be a clutch chain mover and sneaky dagger.  This is far from a perfect world so.. here we are using the slot as our primary target. 

Add a pass catching threat at TE to your scenario and we’d really be in business!

18 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

Amazing what a QB can do with a clean pocket.

And a receiver that can get separation 

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Roll him out of the pocket so he doesn't have to jump shot like Curry every damn time, it might work.

I've been saying this all season. All of those guys from the same coaching tree (McVey, Shannahan, McDaniels, LaFleuer, etc ) call rollout/bootleg plays several times a game and they often result in big plays down the field. 

Our current playbook apparently puts little emphasis on those types of plays.

Successful deep passing requires time. Our pass blocking isn't holding up most of the time. If Carolina plans to ride with Bryce, they're going to haver to build a wall of pass blocking lineman in front of him. Even the 2nd string guys will have to above average pass blockers. The interior has to be solidified so he can step up when he's passing from the pocket. 

1 minute ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

I'd have a lot more faith in them picking the right players in the 1st round, but Fitterer has been even worse than Hurney after round 1.

Not trying to to start anything, but let's take a look at our 1st round picks since 2020.

2020 Derrick Brown

2021 Jayce Horn

2022 Ikem Ekwonu

2023 Bryce Young

I hated the Brown pick. Good...not great player. If you pick a DT at #6 in the draft he needs to be dominant. He's never really taken over a game. His presence on the field does not  make the players around him significantly better. I do think he would be more impactful if he had more talent around him on the D-line.

Horn is a great talent...can't stay healthy. No value to us if he's never on the field. We could have had Micah Parsons or a different CB (Patrick Surtain)

OK rookie season. Ekwonu has regressed in 2023. He could still turn it around. A lot of us believe he could possibly be an All-Pro talent at guard.

Bryce is going to get better. But, he's going to have a limited impact if he can't push the ball downfield. If he had a do-over, I don't think any of us would choose him over Stroud or Richardson. 

So, if we had extra choices, I'd still be skeptical if the current FO were making the picks. We're missing on top 10-15 picks. You can't do that if you're trying to rebuild a team.

39 minutes ago, NAS said:

 

He's a great slot receiver, not supposed to be leading our team in receiving yards or receptions.  We obviously do not have no #1 WR or even #2 WR.  

This goes back to Scott and the rest of the FO. We've picked receivers in the 2nd round in 2021 and 2023 and so far we literally have nothing to show for it. If one of those guys was even a legit #2 our offense would be significantly better. I don't see how a GM could go into either one of those drafts and say that TMJ and Mingo were the best players on board (or even the best at their positions) when it was time to turn in the draft card. 

There is a reason I'm not that upset about not taking the two #1's for Brian Burns that the Rams supposedly offered last year. I have no faith in the FO to pick the right player.

Tua just made a nice completion on a QB bootleg/rollout. Why dont we have a play like that in the playbook for Bryce. It would probably give him a better chance of completing something downfield.

Just now, woahfraze said:

Chuba has come a long way.  He's got some juice, for sure.

Nothing personal towards Miles, but we didn’t need him this year. We should have kept Donta and kept him paired with Chiba. That money could have been used elsewhere on the roster. Now, we don’t have a big back to lean on on those 4th and short plays now. 

It looks like Bryce may be on the verge of putting things together. I think he’s gonna look a whole better during the last quarter of this season. He really needs a playmaker to complement Theilan.

11 hours ago, therealmjl said:

Man I miss everything about what Steve Smith did for this franchise.

 

To this day I believe Carolina would have beat Denver in SB 50 if Smitty was still with the team that season. He was the missing spark/element that we needed to get over the emotional letdown (that Cam never seemed to recover from) of the sack fumble by Von Miller. 

14 hours ago, Ted Ginn Jr.'s Hands said:

The canary in the coal mine for me was extending robbie anderson

On paper, and at that time, this wasn't a terrible move. Robbie was coming off of a 1,000 yard season. He was playing pretty well under a coach that had worked with him in college. My problem was extending him and then trading down twice in the 2nd round to draft a receiver who has had no major impact on the playing field. We were picking in the mid 30's. After the trade I think we fell to #58. How much playing time was TMJ going to get with DJ and Robbie holding down the #1 and #2 spots? We didn't need a receiver chosen that high in the draft after the extension.

We passed on several high caliber lineman in 2021 and ended up picking a JAG at wideout. To make matters worse, the Chiefs picked Creed Humphrey at center in the 2nd round...after the TMJ selection. Carolina could have come out of the the 2021 draft with 2 starters even after the two trade downs if we had taken Humphrey and Christensen in back to back rounds. 

1 hour ago, *FreeFua* said:

After listening to the pressers and Bryce talking about plays he likes and what not I believe they need to see this through for the entire year. Now they’re simplifying stuff and having to change anything right now I’m not sure would be worth it.

Scott absolutely deserves to be fired for the mess at WR we have though. 

I hate saying someone needs to be fired. These are real people with families that will be affected by a sudden job loss.

That said, Scott has done nothing to give us hope that this team is going to thrive going forward with him as GM. We've spent 2nd round choices on WR's two of the past 3 seasons (2021, 2023) who have had no significant impact on the playing field. We could have got similar production (and possibly better) from a 3rd or 4th round guy and use the 2nd rounders in those years to address bigger needs. Unfortunately, based on his drafting record he probably wouldn't have used those picks to get the right guys.  I can't imagine how sorry this offense would be if we hadn't been able to sign Theilan in the offseason.

1 hour ago, Mage said:

Terrace Marshall definitely doesn't play that fast.  That was even true at LSU and was one of his negatives as a prospect, that he didn't run as fast as he was timed (here's one example of a scouting report noting it).  And in Mingo's case, a 4.46 isn't particularly fast for a WR.  15 wide receivers in this past draft alone ran a faster 40.  And that is just in this last draft.  Almost every NFL team has at least 2, if not 3, WRs faster than Jonathan Mingo.

The coaching has been bad, I agree.  But these wide receivers are very slow.  DJ Chark is the only one with legit speed on the field.

Another issue is that while they may have straight-line speed, we have NO wide receiver with agility whatsoever.  Nobody that can make a dude miss in open field outside of Shenault, who isn't fast either.  That makes it harder for them to separate because it limits their route-tree.  Again not defending the coaching but this is a legitimately bad and slow receiving group.  

Despite their inability to play fast, our esteemed GM took both TMJ and Mingo in round 2 of the draft. I don’t see the value of taking a possession receiver that high in the draft unless that is literally the only think you are lacking on offense. Even then I’d want to use a pick that high to address another need and take that type of receiver later in the draft or try to obtain one thru a trade or free agency (ex: Thelen). A receiver drafted in the 2nd round should be a difference maker on the field and neither of these guys are so far.

3 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

There’s not a game this season that Andy would have won. Just let that go. This is a bad football team and we’re talking about Andy fuging Dalton. It’s like Derek Anderson all over again. What it’s wrong with y’all. 

I'm not so sure about that. Based on how well the defense played the first two weeks of the season, I think we could have beat the Falcons and Saints to start the season. I don't think Dalton would have thrown those 2 costly picks to the same player in identical circumstances in the Atlanta game. We only needed one more score against the New Orleans to win it or send it into overtime for the the Monday night game. 

If Bryce hadn't had the sack fumble that resulted in a TD for Minnesota we could have won that game as well. We could be 3-2 or 2-3 at worst if Dalton had started the season.

That doesn't mean I think it was a mistake to start the rookie. I think Bryce needs all the reps that he can get to gain experience. None of the 1st four games were blowouts and were winnable with him behind center if he taken better care of the ball the coaches put the team in a better position to score points on offense.

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Having that draft capital is huge for many many reasons.    Also in regards to this season, anyone objectivily looking at this franchise and roster could see we were (God knows how far off we are now) but we were a couple seasons out from being a top tier team if things went our way.

So in closing fitt fuged up and it should cost him his job.

I agree he has done a poor job selecting players the past 3 seasons, but not trading Burns shouldn't factor into the equation.

CarolinaRideorDie posted this yesterday.

55 minutes ago, 4Corners said:

They have got to do everything where that first rounder is not a top 3 overall. It still sucks, but sending over the 6th instead of the first or second might not sting quite as much. 

51 minutes ago, Billy Goat said:

Why on earth should they do that? The season is a write-off. We need to use the remaining games to give Young as many reps as possible. The whole sitting him to shadow a vet ship sailed long ago.

I see the merits in both arguments

We definitely did not think we would be setting up the possibility of Chicago getting two picks inside the top 5 (or even the top 2) when we made the Bryce Young deal. A competent franchise should be able to use their own picks and the additional ones they received from us to build a perennial contender in the NFC for the rest of the decade. Our only source of comfort is the history of the Chicago Bears. They are a mediocre franchise who in all likelihood will not significantly improve with those extra draft choices. And, we should be more concerned with getting Bryce on the right track instead of trying to stick it to the Bears.

We gave up a lot to get Bryce. We need to see what he can do since we have to roll with him the next couple of seasons. More playing time should get him better acclimated with:

1) The speed of the game

2) The myriad of pass coverages around the NFL

3) The route running of his receivers

4) The tight passing windows in the league

5) The timing and touch needed to push the ball down the field.

A lot of great QB's struggled during their rookie seasons (Bradshaw and Aikman immediately come to mind since both went on to lead dynastic teams in the decade that defined their careers)

Bryce has nowhere to go but up in his career trajectory. We need to see what he can do. But, if we can't finish with 6-7 wins by seasons end Tepper may have to make some major changes in the FO and on the coaching staff. 

This question is directed to all of you guys upset about not trading Burns last year.  If we made that trade, do you honestly believe it would have made us significantly better this season? I see nothing from the current FO to suggest we would have picked the right player with the choice this year or that they would do so with an extra # 1 in 2024.

Take a look at our drafts from 2021-2023. How many players have made a significant impact on the team? We consistently trade up or down to pick JAGS (or worse) and pass over great players in the process. We trade away 2nd and 3rd round players who couldn’t start on a contender in the NFL (ex: Darnold and CJ Henderson). The FO has not shown the ability to properly evaluate talent. If I were Tepper there is no way I’d let Fitz trade Burns unless I already knew I’d be bringing in a competent GM to replace him in 2024.

1 hour ago, WarPanthers89 said:

That guy is a winner. That’s where you feel bad for guys like that. He’s been here a long time, we’ve not been able to win.

“Everybody deserves better, but he deserves better. And he deserves better. I believe that’s why we’re here, and I believe that it can work out where he can see that.”

Do you think the Panther realize they are screwed heading into the 2024 draft w/out a #1 pick? Could they be laying the groundwork to justify a trade before the deadline to recoup the lost pick? At this point I don't think Burns would be totally opposed to moving on the greener pastures.

14 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Just ask for a trade and speed this all up. This team is going no where and do you really want to get paid to wallow in the mud with the rest of this mess for years when you could be contending and still getting paid? It's OK. Be a professional and put your career over this dead end. 

 

This is why many of us feel that it is very possible that Caleb Williams could opt to stay in school for his senior year rather than take the risk of ending up with a franchise like the Chicago Bears. Unless a contender trades up, Williams will still likely end up on a bad franchise in 2025 if he stays at USC. Still, no franchise in the NFL in the Super Bowl Era (1966-to present day) has a worst history of developing young QB's than Chicago.