Seltzer

5 hours ago, X-Clown said:

2004 Peppers - “only” 11 sacks, but 69 tackles, 4 forced fumbles, 9 passes defensed, 2 INTs and 2 Defensive TDS 

I thought about the 2004 season for Peppers too. Peppers & Kuechly could have probably filled all the spots.

5 hours ago, Ricky Spanish said:

2015 Luke is a top 5 season and I'd even put it ahead of Norman. Even though he missed 3 games he was still 3rd in DPOTY that season, ahead of Norman was 4th.

I thought about that as well, and you can definitely make that argument.

I never thought we would long for the halcyon days of Marty Hurney, but here we are.

Of all the issues with this team, the first is David Tepper.  But he ain't firing himself...

All I know is Scotty F better be out of Mint St come Jan. 8th...

8 minutes ago, SZ James (banned) said:

I do watch the games which is why saying that the defense sucks is fuging insanity

Rather, the defense as a reflection of Evero's coaching, is overachieving & good given the circumstances

Evero is an incredible DC.  Look at what he has done in consecutive seasons in Denver & Carolina with terrible offenses.  

And while personally I don't think this is the worst overall team in history (I think 2010 was the worst talent wise), this team does play the worst complimentary football of any team in franchise history.

3 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

It wasnt prevent it was more zone.

 

And your first sentence is basically how I feel at this point.  Hes shown way more bad then good but his overall physical attributes are going to make this a tough road to hoe for sure. 

2 of the top teams in the NFL are led by Tua and Brock Purdy...

I don't think that argument is the slam dunk you think it is.

Every single pundit out there said the same things about Tua (probably even more than BY9 b/c Tua was almost out of the league due to concussions), and Bryce has proven himself to be much more durable physically than Tua.  It's amazing how the narrative changed around Tua once they gave him legit weapons.  No one says he too small now that he has an offensive line that can block and receivers that can get open.  And Purdy just fell into the best starting situation in the NFL.

I am in no way saying there is not potential validity in your argument, but there is also plenty of evidence to the contrary right now atop the standings in the NFL.

Would you not agree or do we not live in the same reality on this either?

4 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I think Evero has done a lot with a little.  The defense has kept us in most games, and did so without much of a pass rush, and with a lot of injuries.  And with very little help from the offense.  

One of the greatest coaching jobs in franchise history.  Defense has had almost as many devastating injuries as the offense and Evero has kept them balling.

They would be getting a lot more respect if the offense did their part (the points given up too are out-of-whack relative to how good they've been overall b/c the offense has constantly put them in bad situations).

1 minute ago, Paa Langfart said:

el oh el

On that final drive he absolutely was.  You don't know ball if you can't see that.

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

elite?  Come on man, the throw to chark was elite as was the catch, thats it, everything else underthrown or floated

 

So you're really just going to pretend that it wasn't a monsoon out there yesterday with a ball slippery as fug with wind gusts... was Ridder slinging it around b/c I must have missed that?

Again, and not to be mean, but did you ever play football?  Or even any other sport out in weather like that?

Cause again, this is completely untethered from reality yesterday.  I'm at a loss as to why this should even be a question.

Of all the yearlong valid criticisms, this ain't it.  BY9 was amazing on that final drive, and we hope we will continue to build off that. 

Why can't we just leave it there?

3 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

we scored 9 points and people want to dunk on others so desperately, and yet we are the supposed "miserable" ones.  Its nuts.    I think there is a reason the QB school hasnt reviewed a young game in weeks, there is simply nothing there to see.  Hopefully he does one for the falcons game because I would love to get his take on the first 3.5 quarters.

What other monsoon game have you ever watched where there was a litany of offensive highlights?

Have you ever watched football before this season... I'm not sure how we are even watching the same thing.. and I'm seriously not trying to be mean in this instance... 

I'm tired of even going back & forth with you, I just don't even remotely understand some of your takes... in particular, this critique right here is completely untethered to objective reality IMHO.

Of course, there was nothing pretty about yesterday.  The point was that it was an ugly, ugly game where the normal offensive bug-a-boos showed up again repeatedly, but Bryce (and the rest of the offense b/c they deserve some credit too) persevered in the monsoon and came up big when it mattered most.

That's sports, at least as I have always understood it.  Regardless, I'm done engaging with you on this particular topic.

I hope you have a great rest of your day, and I mean that sincerely.  

18 minutes ago, jamos14 said:

 

Is that really true though?  We have have 2nd, 3rd, 4th, (2) 5th, 6th. Top of each round in 2, 3,4.

 

We should absolutely expect 1 starter and 1-2 additional contributors from that.     This is Fitts biggest problem , he has drafted like poo (and traded) and we have no depth because of it.

If Fitterer is here after January 8th then Tepper really is going full Jerry Jones and only keeping a token GM to try to insulate himself.

I like Bryce and want to see him succeed, but trading up and overestimating the roster he built is a fireable offense, and it better be for this fanbase's sake.

3 minutes ago, jamos14 said:

Your takes are fuging garbage.

   It was a good drive.  Game winning drive's in the NFL are tough; it doesn't matter if you think it didn't meet the eye test.  

Sick of you and others insufferable bullshit.

 

 

They are insufferable over our rookie QB leading a game-winning drive in a monsoon... think about it... I'm just thankful plenty of other people see it too... this is like the Twilight Zone...

Bryce has had plenty of rough games this year, but his overall play was good given the conditions, and that last drive was elite.

There's nothing more to it than that, and these "Panthers fans" lose their minds...

Make it make sense....

16 minutes ago, thennek said:

I am sure someone will take/want the job.  The question is will any top candidates want it. He will have to build the team via free agency vs draft. 

The new HC needs to be a strong leader and be able to stand up for his program and decisions against Tepper. For whatever reason it does not appear Frank was able to do this. Rhule was just not an NFL coach. 

Tepper's going to have to "overpay," but that isn't an obstacle.

It really just comes down to picking the right person.

Crazy thing is that both of our DC the past 2 seasons have looked like the right choice for the job, only to watch Tepper cling to his fascination with finding the next great young offensive mind...

8 minutes ago, KSpan said:

If late, slow, not terribly accurate throws are what you want from a #1 pick, go for it. Typically though, the bar is higher.

I guess I'm old and had never heard of copium until a few years back, but damn if it's not a real thing with this younger generation...

Imagine looking for negatives after the best game-winning drive (and hell we've only had 2- both by Bryce) since Cam in Philly in 2018.  In a literal monsoon nonetheless...

There really must be some of you on here who are beyond miserable in your lives... it's figuratively bleeding out all over the pages on this message board.  Like honestly to the point I genuinely am starting to wonder about the mental health of some of you...

This board has had some down times in the past, but now we've got people actively trolling anyone who is happy about an incredible come-from-behind win... these truly are strange times for a depressed fanbase...

3 minutes ago, jamos14 said:

 

No, which is why I'm not concerned about attracting a quality coach/GM.  We will get some good candidates. 

The question is will Tepper hire the right coach/GM and then get out of their way?

That really is the only pertinent question.  The rest makes for good hot-take media, but it's all speculative nonsense.

3 minutes ago, jamos14 said:

Tier 1 job openings:

 

LA Chargers- nobody else is close.  Franchise QB, offensive skill players, in LA.

 

Tier 2:

Chicago (POTENTIAL) - tons of draft capital (thanks to us), position to either keep Fields and trade for more or build around

Atlanta (POTENTIAL) - top 5 offensive skill players in the league

Tier 3:  

Panthers - some solid young corps to build around but Tepper makes things difficult

Raiders - nobody of note to build around and Vegas doesn't care and won't ever care.

Patriots - nobody to build around.  Nobody wants to be the guy to follow Bill.

Commanders - nobody to build around

 

I don't see any other team firing a HC; maybe NYJ or Saints ?

Fair list.  I definitely see Chargers as #1 and Bears as #2 given the draft capital.

For #3, that gets a little tricky.  I think the Falcons and Panthers are neck-and-neck.  The Falcons probably have a better overall roster (especially on offense) but I like our defense and QB right now significantly better.  I also don't see Atlanta getting Williams or Maye, so they will still be spinning the QB carousel next year too.

However, I don't think any of these openings are "bad."  So, so much changes in the NFL on an annual basis.  The Texans looked absolutely hopeless last year and are competing for a playoff spot.  As awful as this year has been, I've also watched enough football to know that we could easily compete for the NFC South next year (what we were promised this year).

I still think the Chargers are in a tier above (b/c of Herbert) and the Bears draft capital and big market make that attractive.

The others are pretty closely bunched together IMHO.

And in the grand scheme of life, is there a "bad" NFL HC opening when you're going to be making guaranteed millions no matter what?

13 minutes ago, thennek said:

I was listening to ESPN radio this morning with Greenie. They were talking about the best HC openings. Carolina was last…and not even close. They were joking they would rather coach Coastal Carolina than the Panthers. Primary reason- the owner. Tepper has a terrible reputation and all of the recent Hunger Games talk has made it worse. The number one problem with the Panthers is Tepper. I think it is telling that he fired Frank but not Fitterer. Fitterer is the GM and has been for over 3-years. This team has significantly less talent now than in 2020. Each year the team has gotten worse and that is a bi-product of bad decisions made by the Panthers leadership. Fitterer must be in tune with Tepper or he would have been canned with Frank. 

It makes for compelling radio, especially for his big market audience who loves to think they are the center of the world and everywhere else is meaningless.

However, Tepper's money will always make this attractive... "attractive" is a very subjective word there.

Just b/c the pundits want to clown on Tepper doesn't mean there isn't a boatload of candidates willing to take one of the 32 highest profile jobs in America making guaranteed millions, even if you have to deal with a meddling boss.

Many, many of us do that for far, far less fame & money.  I think objectively the Chargers job is better, but outside of that, meh...

Tepper's wallets will get us a coach... it's a matter of spending that money on the right coach.

19 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

lollers, literally your first sentence in this thread, you cannot make this up

 

Give it rest... seriously... you've had all season to troll & clown around with all your clown buddies, literally & figuratively while everyone with a an IQ above 100 avoided this place.

The grown ups are back... you need to head back to the kiddies tables with all the other hot-take artists... literally no one here with even a passing knowledge of football wants to converse with you or your ilk...

39 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

That's where I'm at with it.

It was a great drive to win the game and everyone contributed, not just Bryce, but he looked good on the one drive. I'm not ready to crown him our franchise savior yet, but I still haven't completely written him off like many already have.

I would like to see him string a few scoring drives together, preferably in the same game.

This team is such a dumpster fire I don't know where the blame starts and ends with Bryce, but he's the QB, the first overall pick, and we traded a ton away for the privilege to draft him. I was willing to give him to the middle of the year to see some improvement but none came. It'd be nice to see those improvements I wanted to see come in this last month of the season but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm still willing to hold off my final judgments on the kid until next season, which I think is fair considering I gave Rhule a season and a half before I wanted his head, and Bryce is way more likeable.

Thank God you are still one of the moderators... this is a fair take.

Not one single person that I've known on this board with any football sense is wanting to crown Bryce anything.

However, I truly cannot believe all the hot-take artists that have simply taken over this joint and people who just want to troll and spew incandescent hate & vitriol at everything related to this team and Bryce... it's effing December and the holidays... I can't deal with that level of constant negativity.  I pity anyone who would willingly live their life this way.

Trading up was one of the worst moves in franchise history.  In retrospect, I think we all can agree.  Other than the Sean Gilbert trade, this might be 2nd worse.  That's the objective truth.  I don't see any reason to sugar coat that.  But to me, the blame for that decision lies with the impetus 66-year-old owner who has effed up everything- not the 22 rookie who is doing his best in what has been offensive dysfunction for the ages.

Even still, that ink is dry.  Bryce is our QB at least through next season unless something unexpected happens.  I want him to succeed, and I genuinely believe he can and will if he is provided with the same tools literally any other QB needs (an Oline that can block & guys that can get open & catch).  If other people disagree, I understand the validity, but I will debate that fact.

My enduring point is the absolute absurdity of people crucifying him when this whole offensive operation (from the coaches hired, to the scheme, to being outlandishly gaslit by Fitterer about where this roster was), has made this situation (in retrospect) one where literally no QB on Earth would thrive.

Also, we played what like 15 different interior offensive line combos... nobody wants to hear it, but it textbook insanity to think any of this would be a recipe for success.

Back to your original point, the QB is always the easiest lightning rod in a season like this.  One on hand, these guys are being paid millions, and the NFL is not about what is fair, it's about wins.

No one should be immune from criticism, least alone a #1 pick like Bryce Young... everyone should be clear on that.

But, and I can say this unequivocally as someone in my 40's who played (and coached) a lot of sports, there is no effing way I could have handled this situation without mentally breaking at 22, and I feel confidently none or exceedingly few people on this board could have.  

The fact that this kid hasn't been broken by everything and was able to lead that drive yesterday... I wonder how many people have held any sort of leadership role in either sports or professionally?... b/c if you have then you know the mental toughness (let alone the physical ability to perform) is off the charts.

I think we as a fanbase should be able to recognize the trade up was a mistake, full stop.  You don't do that unless you think you can compete for the playoffs and not give up a high pick, let alone potentially the #1 pick.  Fitterer needs to pay for this (amongst many other mistakes).

That being said, and even though the trade up was a mistake, I think Bryce can be a very good QB.  Both things can be true, and only time and a supporting cast to fairly evaluate him will give a clear picture.

1 hour ago, ickmule said:

We are laughing at a fanbase with a bad QB. That’s ironic.  
 

ours is way worse.  

That's embarrassing, objectively wrong, and straight-up pathetic...

Why not just find another team?  No one here is going to blame or shame you if you honestly believe that...

The kid just led one of the gutsiest game-winning drives in franchise history and this is the garbage take you want to make??

I just don't understand... either you just want to miserable or you want to see Bryce fail... I'm not sure if was Covid, us sucking for years, the general devolution of social discourse due to social media or what, but it is jarring to see so many people here actively clamoring for us to fail, and for Bryce specifically... 

It is as bizarre as anything I've see in franchise history, and that includes the Weinke Truthers and the Cam Haters.

Either stance is fine, but it makes zero logical sense to continue on as a Panthers fan, right?  Like, why continue to carry this massive mental burden that is weighing you down??  Just let it go, man.

The rest of here who don't live in hot-take world will manage, I assure you.

8 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Who is miserable? I just don't get caught up in rose-colored nonsense like this, and being as apathetic about the team as Tepper has made many makes it quite easy to objectively evaluate what we're seeing without any emotional impact. Carolina was lucky that Atlanta didn't care to win today and that Ridder went completely braindead.

True statements about your evaluations in terms of where the team and franchise is at overall.  All I was saying in any of this was that Bryce had an amazing final drive.  I'm happy about that, b/c 1)It would have been amazing for prime Tom Brady to lead that drive, let along maligned rookie Bryce and 2) I still want to avoid the #1 pick if at all possible

If this was any other QB besides a rookie that a substantial amount of our fanbase wants to crucify, there would be no objections to how amazing that was, especially in the worst conditions I've ever seen at BOA (and I've been to most bad weather games over the past 15 years).

There's nothing more than that to what I'm saying.  And Tepper deserves every ounce of criticism thrown his way.  He is the puppet master that has overseen this tragedy.

I've just seen so many fans direct their anger at anyone else but Tepper over the past 6 years.  And literally none of them have deserved it.  Neither does Bryce- he deserves plenty of criticism, but not this incandescent hate that he hasn't magically saved the bad decision this franchise has made for 6 seasons and counting.

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

Win is a win. He did enough to win. 9 points are 9 points though. There were similar posts like this made after the Texans game and then Bryce and the offense proceeded to freefall. I have zero expectations for the rest of the season. Next season is when I expect big things regardless of coaching personnel or any other circumstance. I will not be lowering the bar any further than it already has but that's my own personal opinion.

Totally fair statement.

Both game winning drives have been incredible, but unfortunately, there really hasn't been much on offense outside of that to be excited about.  And pretty much every single person on offense has had more than their fair share of screw-ups (I'm inclined to give Hubbard and maybe Moton a pass).

However, a rookie QB making mistakes is somewhat expected.  A rookie QB dealing with historic levels of dysfunction should cause you to expect more.

What's disappointing is that Bryce has made so many plays this year where guys who shouldn't be making these types of mistakes are making them repeatedly.

That objectively has made it almost impossible to fairly evaluate (let alone support) his development.

We need to get everything right going into next season so we can make the proper evaluation we should have been able to make this year.

I know that isn't hot-takeish enough for some people, but it's true.

And you're right about next week... I certainly hope we can carry some momentum, but there's no evidence in this season to believe that.

2 minutes ago, PappyMay said:

I know we aren’t a good team but I’m not ready to give up on Bryce yet. I don’t see why he can’t pan out to be a good game manager. Let’s get this man a speed WR and good guard to sure up the pocket(I’m not sure how Corbett will ever be) half our losses have been 1 possession game. I’m hoping for 7-10 next season and building towards the future. 

Tua is a game manager.  Purdy is a game manager.  You think any of that matters to those fans if they win a SB.

Most QB's are game managers.  That's really the bulk of their responsibilities.

I'll take a game manager that can manager a drive like that final one 17/17 games.

11 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Bryce does have some positives this year.  Couple of game winning drives, and his passes in the mid range (15-30 yards) are mostly good.  Also, he has decent mobility and hasn't thrown a lot of picks.  Only 1 in the last four games, I think.  But we still have a lot of questions about whether he will eventually be a NFL qb.  

See, this is the kind of debate/criticism I can get behind 100%.  These are legitimate questions, and they haven't yet been answered.

And trading up was a mistake- there is no question in retrospect.  

But the absolute nonsense emanating from so many people on this board has been embarrassing.

Bryce is going to be here starting next year.  I support this team, so I want to see him improve and to succeed.  And maybe I'm just older than some of these people or coached too long, but damn some of these takes are so divorced from reality (and still celebrated as the only acceptable groupthink in here) it's just hard to take.

Good game (in terms of we got the win) and elite final drive.  Hoping to see a better offensive performance next week.