tukafan21

No matter how much he ever bulks up, he'll never have an above average starting NFL QB arm strength, not even close. 

There are 32 starting QB's at any given time, he'll never have better than the 16th strongest arm, he'll be lucky to ever crack the Top 25 in any season of arm strength and it's something everyone knew going into it.  

The problem is that it was significantly weaker than even expected and his super brain couldn't make up for it like everyone said it could.  

Dak will be 32 by the time the 2025 season starts and we still won't have a SB contending team built out minus the QB yet.

There is no circumstance where paying him $50 million a year (what it would take to sign him) to come here for a few years and make us a middling team for his time here, never contending and never drafting high enough for elite prospects.

You have to ride out Bryce until we can replace him in the draft or by signing a gap starter until we find that draft pick QB, not a top dollar one already a few years into his 30s.

No

2 hours ago, amcoolio said:

Nobody still really knows about his future, the NFL is so unpredictable. There's a chance Bryce comes out and has fixed a lot of his mechanics and zips the ball at high accuracy from 10-20 yards. There's a chance he doesn't and he's not the answer. We'll know by October.

Short of taking steroids, he'll never even have an average NFL QB arm strength.  Today's NFL QB's are just built differently and the game is getting faster, you can't get by anymore with a below average arm like Bryce's.

You don't trade away your future to take that QB at #1, that's the QB you sign in the offseason on a 2 year deal to be your gap starter while a young guy sits and learns.

8 hours ago, Jmac said:

Almost 500 bills to get season ticket.....no thanks. I will watch whatever is on that week and catch the highlights later. 

 

 

 

 

 

Well if you sign up now for $350, that's a significant savings

If you think that's bad, it's good thing you haven't become a big Wrexham fan like myself recently.

The subscription to watch their games is about $200 for the season.  Yes that's less money, but that's also for a 4th tier English Football League club (3rd tier next season now), which would be like paying for an XFL package here or something, and unlike Sunday Ticket where you get all games not on local TV, you ONLY get your team's games.

So I was only able to watch the Wrexham games with it (granted it's almost 50 games) but none of the rest of the league they were in, which is kinda dumb for the price.

7 hours ago, PanthersATL said:

per YouTube:
if you were a NFL Sunday Ticket subscriber last season & set up auto-renew, you’ll need to cancel your auto-renew & buy NFL Sunday Ticket again before 5/16 to take advantage of the NFL Draft offer

 

What a terrible policy... basically saying we're going to screw over our most loyal customers, the ones who would never have planned on cancelling their subscription, and make them pay an extra $100 unless they get lucky enough to hear about this offer first.

Anyone who signed up last year in time to get the $100 off should just have had the discount automatically added to theirs this year again too.

6 minutes ago, frankw said:

You are a loyal fan sir.

haha thanks

It was nice for a while going to BWW each week, especially as it was always the same group of regulars to watch their out of town teams, there was kinda a little group of us that got to know each other over the course of years.  But I can't lie, the years we were terrible, it wasn't the easiest thing to spend the money to go up there almost every week (generally would get 1-3 games locally a season).

Especially if I was particularly hungry and/or got an extra beer or two during a particular Sunday.  Sometimes would end up with around a $50 check after tip, which really adds up over the course of a full season.

So yea, Sunday Ticket is the best thing ever for someone like me.  And even though I didn't make my fantasy playoffs this year (which sucked, coming off being the first person to win back to back championships in our 15 year history of our league), it was the most fun season I've had doing fantasy because of having the league pass and always being able to pull up the game my players were in.

7 minutes ago, frankw said:

$450? I had to look this up to see for myself. That is pure hilarity.

I have had very little to no interest in other NFL games the last several years and nonsense like this certainly won't help with that.

I'll just stick with the local Panthers games and catch highlights for others if I have any interest.

Well for someone who doesn't live in the Carolinas area, this package is amazing for me and totally worth the cost, even at the $450, but yea, I'd like to get the $100 off if I can.

Pre-covid I would go to BWW every Sunday we weren't on TV for me local or on a National game.  It would probably cost me around $500 a season in food/drinks, and that was to watch our game with no sound.

Post Covid, when we were just terrible, I just streamed the games.  Problem with that is they'd constantly freeze, particularly in the 2nd half of games for some reason and it gets frustrating.

So now with this package, I can watch all our games from home, with sound, no freezing issues, for at worst the same cost, but likely less, than I'd spend at BWW each season.  Plus I then get to watch whatever games I need to for fantasy purposes, which is such a nice bonus with having this.  

This past season was great with it, on my TV I'd have either a local broadcast or Red Zone, with a quad box on my projector with my fantasy players, and the Panthers game on my laptop with the sound going for our commentary.

How do you do this?

When I go into my YouTube subscriptions, it just shows Sunday Ticket as an automatically renewal for me in a couple of months, at the full $450 option.

It doesn't give me any option to do it right now to save the $100

I guess maybe I cancel it and then try to subscribe again, will that give me the $100 off?

Anyone know?

If TMJ doesn't end up making the team (which is a real possibility), then I'd like to see Sanders take over #88 and really try to be our next Olsen.

Don't know why, but I don't like how 85 looks on him and hoping he makes a change to something else.

18 hours ago, travisura said:

Word on the street is that Beane called Morgan when he got word that the Patriots wanted to move up for Legette. Morgan gets to move up for relatively cheap to get his guy, Beane gets to move back and still get his guy, and the Pats get screwed over. Win, win, win.

Sorry to be that guy, but this is a fun story that doesn't really hold up to logic

The Bills would never have traded with the Patriots there to let them get their guy, not for a division opponent.  Even if the Bills traded it to someone else, either they or we would have taken him before the Patriots could anyways, thus the Patriots never stood a chance to get thier guy, so the Bills didn't screw them over.

Just sayin

I actually was reading something today that pointed out how Cousins could only get one year in Atlanta.

Don't remember the exact specifics, but think only about half of the guaranteed money going to Kirk in this deal was from a signing bonus, a lot of it is just guaranteed salary in years 2 and 3.  Which is the key in determining how big of a dead cap hit the team would have to take if they move on from him after 1 year in a trade.

They'd have to take a decent dead cap hit if they trade him next offseason, but with Penix on a rookie deal, it's easier for them to take that hit.

They can't cut him though, as cutting him would then put them on the hook for the guaranteed salary and give them a massive dead cap hit. 

He also has a no trade clause, so they'd have to get him to agree to it as well, but knowing this now, I wouldn't be surprised if they look to trade him after the season to someone like the Raiders or something.

Why?

has there been a more injured RB in the league over the last 6 years?

he’s played 45 games in 6 years, he’s a fine player when on the field, but I just don’t see the point in signing a player who we’ll be lucky to get 6 games out of.

6 hours ago, BrisbanePanther said:

Maybe I haven't kept up, but how do we know he set our to deceive in order to keep his stock high? That's a strong character-indicting accusation. Especially when it's not all that different than what others have done in the past. The only potentially eyebrow-raising is not being weighed again. Otherwise, he didn't do anything in the draft process that others haven't done and won't do in the future. In fact, the fact that he put all his eggs in the basket of his own pro day (which he didn't look great at) actively opposes the idea of setting out to deceive.

I mean, I literally said that every player does it, I wasn't blaming him, but I'm not sure I can think of another player who's gaming of the process was able to secure them the #1 pick before.

But it's pretty obvious that he went to the combine with a lot of temporary weight, especially since he then didn't get back on a scale a few weeks later at his pro day.

And in a year where there really was a debate as to who should be the top pick between him and Stroud, with Stroud throwing at the combine, it's also clear that Bryce didn't want to be seen throwing in the same setting as him, as in that scenario you usually would want to prove you are the better player to get that #1 pick.

Again, I don't "blame" him for it, every player tries to hide their weaknesses during the pre-draft process.  

But like I said, I can't remember someone else being able to do that to leverage securing the #1 pick because of it.  And thus, when people say, "it's not Bryce's fault the Panthers made a bad pick and put him in this situation", I can't help but say that it kinda is.  

It's no different than a regular person embellishing their resume and/or talking themselves up in an interview, getting the job, and then finding out they probably aren't qualified for said job.

Yes, it's the company's fault for hiring them, but they also take some of the blame themselves and thus shouldn't be immune from criticism when they struggle and end up losing said job in quick fashion.

1 hour ago, raleigh-panther said:

I don’t enjoy being miserable and worse yet paying to be 

He has one year.  

He showed very, very little…even when he could…or …of even knowing how to play the position in the NFL 

not his fault the Panthers were idiots …but this is a multimillion $ business and the current roster has been rebuilt for him and the past rosters destroyed to draft him

this ain’t Mater Dei and it ain’t Bama   Production not participation matters here 

he needs to average 2 to 3 passing TDs a game, when it matters not in cleanup and he needs to actually win games with his leadership 

 

 

It's not his fault the Panthers were idiots, but at the same time, he very purposefully did things in the lead up to the draft to try and deceive teams to help his draft stock.

Now I'm not saying he shouldn't try to maximize his draft stock, everyone does, but if he didn't manipulate a few very specific and key things, he wouldn't have gone #1 and been put into this situation.

I'm mainly talking about how they clearly put on temporary weight for the combine so he weighed in much higher than his playing weight, not throwing next to the other top passers so his weak arm wouldn't stand out like a sore thumb, and then not being weighed at his pro day after he lost all the temporary weight.

If he threw next to the other prospects or had his actual weight taken, I don't think we end up taking him #1 in the end as those weaknesses would have been so glaringly more obvious and we'd have gone with Stroud.

33 minutes ago, CRA said:

Oh he can be worse….NFL teams will now have a years worth of film him, all his issues and tendencies.  It’s why year 2 is historically hard on QBs and the sophomore slump term is used.

and he is playing in a new scheme with a rookie HC and rookie OC.  Which that alone sets up more difficulty.  Then on top of that, the O is going to be built for a downfield gunslinger. 

I personally think Bryce looks worse this year.  Too much sets up for that.  

If the offense is built for a downfield gunslinger, then we yet again made the wrong HC hire and he should be fired before the 2025 season and start this all over again next year.

I'm not saying that will be the case in the end, but if a new coach comes in, with Bryce as his QB, and then builds that type of offense to try and have him run, then he shouldn't have the job.

Being a HC in the NFL means building your schemes around the players you have, not forcing players into your own desires, because if they don't have the skills to play that way, it's never going to work.

It's one thing to teach players how to run your schemes when they have the translatable skills to do so, but it's something else entirely to build an offense that requires abilities your players just flat out don't posses. 

Be in the MVP discussion

and no, that’s not a joke, it would literally take that type of season for me to begin to consider him as the possible long term QB of the future.  It’s because I think he’s THAT bad, even him just improving won’t convince me that he should be thought of as a long term solution.

For me, it’s a very simple discussion, he doesn’t posses a single above average physical trait for todays QB position, and he doesn’t have many at even an average level, most are below average to downright awful.

And that’s just not something you should be trying to build a team around, especially with the direction the position is moving in todays game. 
 

None of this is a surprise either, it was all there on tape before the draft, it never made sense to me to think he has some super brain that is so superior to any one else’s that it can overcome the fact that he has the physical abilities of an average high school QB.

I still think he has the potential to be a gap starter type of QB in this league, like a Teddy Two Gloves.

But that’s not who I want to try and build around for the future in the slightest.

it was a horrible trade and an even worse pick, sunk cost already, just gotta ride him out until we are in a position to draft someone new, potentially as early as next draft (although I’m not against sucking for two years and doing it in 2026 if there isn’t anyone worth it next year, just like the Bears just did, trade the pick and compile assets for an extra year).

2 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

The Panthers had already turned down the 2 1sts for Burns prior to the Bears trade. Why would the Bears need 2 1sts plus Burns instead of 1 st plus Moore? That make the Burns fiasco even worse. Also the Bears could've drafted a wr or traded Burns for one. No I think the offer was their 1st for this years and a player or this year and next years 1st plus several 2nd round picks if no player involved. The players were one of the 3 you listed. Fitterer decided to give the only offensive skill player we had to draft a qb. What he thought said qb was going to do without someone to throw the ball to is beyond me. But he got to see Burns jerk him around all season so it worked out OK I guess. Fitterer is such a dumbass. 

I thought the word at the time was that if it was Burns instead of DJ, the 2025 pick needed to be a 1st instead of the 2nd that we gave up in the deal.

Even then, that the Bears were pushing for the DJ trade because of their need for a #1 WR.

Maybe I'm wrong, it was a long time ago and it's been all bad news since then, but I thought that was what the rumors/insider info was at the time.

And what we turned down for Burns has no bearing on what someone else would give up for Burns, especially as we saw what we got for him in the end, a far cry from that Rams offer. 

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

They wanted Moore, Burns, or Brown. It was already leaked. 
 

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2023/04/03/2023-nfl-draft-panthers-bears-trade-dj-moore-brian-burns-derrick-brown/

 

Yea, but I'm rather certain I had read that if we wanted to include anyone other than DJ (given their need for a WR), it was going to cost us an extra first rounder instead of the future 2nd.

Which I don't think we were ever going to do on our end.

Hence why it really was just DJ as a legitimate option on our end.

I have no problems with talking about hypotheticals, but at least keep them realistic.

The Bears were never going to make that trade with us if we insisted on Burns instead of DJ.

They were still hoping Fields was going to be their future QB at that point.  They wanted to get him a weapon and knew there wasn't any great WR options in FA or the draft last year.  The only way they were ever going to make that trade with us was by including DJ in the trade, so it's just a dumb hypothetical, sorry.

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Working for a season under Adam Thielen (another undrafted WR) should be a positive factor.  Some of these issues are correctable.  Many kids from small schools not only lack experience against DI schools, they lack the coaching that develops talent. 

Exactly, I mean it as no offense to his coaches, but they coach at Holy Cross and not a Power 5 school for a reason.

Given his success at that level and his solid testing, I'm surprised he went undrafted, seems like the type that could excel once he gets NFL level coaching.

One of higher expectations I've had for an UDFA in a long time.

1 hour ago, SCO96 said:

I see your point. However, what if Penix doesn’t have a stellar season in his first year as starter? If the Falcon miss the playoffs and his play is only competent at best I think the leverage swings the other way.

Sure, but if that happens, the draft pick will look even worse for the Falcons, as instead of getting them a player that could win now, they took someone who ran off their prize FA QB after 3 years and now looks like they may be a bust.

Penix was one of the more polished QB's in the draft and would have probably been a rookie starter if taken by someone with an uncertain starting QB, if he's not ready to step in and play well in year 3, then it's probably not going to work out.

So the only way it helps their contract situation, is if it doesn't work out as they plan, but if it does, they're going to cut Cousins after 2 years and then have to give Penix a monster deal the following offseason.

7 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

 Everyone talks about how important it is to draft a QB in round 1 and have the "5th year option" I haven't seen it play out the well over the past several years.

The good/great QB' aren't playing the first 5 years under their original deal.  After year 3 or 4 they are getting mammoth extensions.

Having Penix take over in year 3 may actually save the Falcons some money over the next 5 seasons. I doubt they'd give him an extension after his first year as a starter if he took over the starting position after the guaranteed portion of Kurt Cousins new deal ends in 2025.   In terms of playing time, Penix 3 years as a starter would be ending with the 5th year of his rookie deal (assuming his option was picked up). The money Penix would be making in year 5 of a rookie contract would be significantly less than the upper echelon 5 year starters are making now.

 

Given Penix age and injury history, if he starts in year 3 and kills it, there's no way his agent lets him show up to camp the next year without a new contract.

Because if that happens, it will mean the Falcons dumped Cousins to roll with Penix and they'll know they can't risk then screwing that up.  Penix would have all the leverage in the world and the Falcons would have no choice but to fold and give him the deal.

23 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Nothing wrong with wanting Zay he is a solid WR.  Don’t listen to these guys you do you.

Everybody begging for Coker when Zay is clearly more proven.  Weird 

I don’t think Coker makes this team

more proven at what?

He has less than 3,000 yards in 7 seasons, he's in the absolute best case scenario, a 4th WR for us this year and a camp body next year.

Coker is a pull at the slot machine with someone the team thinks has real potential or else they wouldn't have given that signing bonus to him.

Zay Jones' are a dime a dozen that we can pick up when final cuts happen, zero reason to sign someone like that right now with the current build of the WR room.

Future picks are also valued less because you don't know where they'll fall in the round, so you almost have to make the trade assuming it will end up falling in the 25-32 pick of the round and if it's any better, then it's a nice bonus.

Combine that with the fact that a GM never knows if they'll still have the job, plus they would know the exact player they would be getting with the current pick, and it's pretty easy to see why future picks are valued less than a current year.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush