tukafan21

10 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Can we get a #1 WR first?

Yes, we need a #1 WR now, but that doesn't change that we need to get us one of those quick twitch WRs for Bryce to get the ball to and let them go to work, it's a key position in the NFL these days and something we don't have.

That's Cowing to a T, particularly as he's a VERY crisp and polished route runner.

Don't look at his lower yardage stats this season and think it's because he's bad, just that the offense changed this year along with McMillan just taking over a lot this year.  He's still going to end up with his most receptions in a season, only a couple behind last year now with the bowl game to play.

McMillan is more of a pipe dream as my guess is we're drafting too high and could need a QB with that top 5 pick while he ends up going in the teens somewhere (also could have solved our #1 WR by then), but he's going to be an absolute stud in this league, his hands are out of this world and has made a couple utterly insane catches this year.

Sure, I'll admit there is a slight (major?) bias here with me being an Arizona alum and them both being Wildcats, but I think we need to try and get Jacob Cowing in the 3rd or 4th round of this upcoming draft and then find a way to get Tetairoa McMillan in 2025 (even though he's likely looking like a 1st rounder and our 1st could be used on a new QB).

Cowing is exactly who Bryce needed this year, a smaller quick twitch guy who thrives out of the slot but can also play out wide (think he'll be like a Tank Dell and be a mid rounder who explodes next year as long as he gets put into the right situation that needs to use him as a rookie).

McMillan is just a flat out stud with amazing hands, reminds me a bit of AJ Green while watching him play, he's going to be a #1 WR in the NFL for a long time.

Feel like our needs/draft position may take us out of the running for McMillan in 2 years, but I really hope they look at Cowing as a mid round pick in this next draft, he's exactly what we've been missing this year for Bryce.

When a player gets hurt on Turf because their foot was planted in the ground while being tackled, then okay, it's fair to at least question it.

But this was just him straight up starting to run from a standing position and his Achilles popped.

It sucks, but it was just an unfortunate injury that happened, I don't see how it can be blamed on the turf on this one in the slightest.

Wouldn't mind seeing if he had anything left as a cheap FA (although he'd never sign here if he clears waivers anyways), but that contract makes him untouchable for us, it would eat up too much of the cap space we need to keep set aside for a WR next year.

On 11/19/2023 at 10:47 PM, ForJimmy said:

I’m not ready to say his physical limitations will prevent him from being great. However I certainly don’t fault anyone who does. I’m with Olsen on how it’s impossible to properly evaluate him in this offense. I’ve seen some plays where he zips it, but others where is kind of lofts it. I don’t know if it’s a confidence thing or rushing his fundamentals but something is definitely off more so in these past couple games.

I agree that it's too early to properly evaluate him in the offense, particularly with the OL and weapons.

But it's not too early to say he doesn't have the physical traits to be elite, he could end up a serviceable starter, but he's never going to be elite, he lacks every physical tool needed to get to that level.

And thus, the trade up to take him is beyond atrocious, you don't make that trade for someone who has a max potential of being the 20th best QB in the league.

Yes, he is getting David Carr'd by this OL

But he is also Josh Rosen'ing himself at the same time, and to a worse extent

Totally disagree

He showed numerous examples of exactly why he doesn't have the physical attributes needed to succeed in this league at QB.

He's just not big, fast, or strong enough to compete at a high level in the NFL.  On multiple occasions today did he have throws that the majority of backups could throw with more velocity on it, and it costs us completions and in some cases, they create turnovers.

His game is making plays on the move, but unless he has a picture perfect set base for his throw, he can't put anything behind it, so the only throws he can make are touch throws that need arc on them, he can't throw into tight spaces on a line.

It was a botched pick after a terrible trade, there's no way around it at this point, I'd honestly trade him for a 2nd round pick this offseason if someone was stupid enough to give us that, because it's more than we'll get after he's terrible next season as well.

5 minutes ago, Cam Lawter said:

Sports Illustrated said Frank wanted Stroud and Tepper wanted Bryce. I don't think Stroud would elevate our offense but we definitely would be throwing more than 150 yards per game. 

Mingo would probably have more yards as well since Bryce only throws out of bounds balls to him. 

At bare minimum he’d have had multiple flashes of elite potential, something Bryce has never done.

Bryce just doesn’t have the physical traits needed to compete in this league in general.  Once you then factor in his size to the equation, it makes his lack of physical ability even worse.

It was a beyond awful pick that we can’t even try to fix for until the 2025 draft

I've been pounding the table saying we can't fire Reich because we won't be able to attract any halfway decent HC candidate without our 1st rounder and getting stuck with Bryce.

However after today, I think it's a real possibility, with one exception that might be giving him some job security.

Who picked Bryce?

If Tepper forced the picked, he might be too afraid to fire Reich, knowing Reich would likely then throw him under the bus after being fired and tell the world that he forced the pick on the staff who wanted to take Stroud.

Honestly think tonight/tomorrow will tell us who chose Bryce, if Reich is fired it was him and the staff, if he's kept, it was Tepper.

Russell didn't get picked after trading a haul to move up (including the #1 pick in a QB heavy draft) and then taken the pick before a guy who is a literal MVP candidate as a rookie.

Bryce will go down as the biggest bust of all time all things considered.

1 minute ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

I honestly believe he's out of the league completely in 5 years tops

I could see him ending up as a long term backup to someone like Mahomes.

Will be a good mind to have in the QB room with film study and such, is a good guy so he won't be a problem, will always be prepared in case you need him to step in for a series or game.

He'll still suck, but most backup QB's do anyways, I think when we cut bait in a year or so, he'll end up in a situation like that.

That pick 6 is 100% because Bryce just doesn’t have an NFL arm

Honestly, how anyone can look at him and think he has a chance at not being a bust is beyond me.

Not an NFL QB, period.

Not keeping Reich until next season would set the franchise even further back.

Nobody good enough is going to come here, so we're either going to end up with another sub-par coach for multiple years or be the team that fires their coach 3 straight seasons and hope to get lucky on making the right hire then.

Best bet is to bring him back, fire him after the first 4-6 games when we're terrible because Bryce isn't a good QB.

Then we end up with a Top 3 pick that a new coach can come in and draft a new QB to bet their career on instead of Bryce.

I'm guessing at least 60% Cowboys fans, decent chance it's almost 75% of the crowd to be honest.

It's going to be like when the historically big teams with followings (Cowboys, 49ers, Steelers, Packers, etc) play in LA and just take over the entire stadium.

10 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

For being such a fan of Tshimanga Biakabutuka, you'd think you'd wanna have at least some semblance of patience with a first-round pick.

Biakabutuka’s problems had nothing to do with his skill or ability, which he regularly would flash when healthy enough to stay on the field.

Bryce just isn’t good, he has had literally 2 or 3 plays where he showed even above average potential, but don’t think I’ve seen a single play that said “he could be elite” because he flat out doesn’t have the physical traits needed for that.

he’s a bust, the sooner people accept it, the quicker we can get past him 

This is why I don’t think we will fire Reich until about a month into next season.

Young coaches know this, they aren’t going to bet their HC career that they’ve been working their whole lives towards, on Bryce and this awful roster.

Why fire Reich to just hire a 3rd rate option to replace him?

You have to wait until after next season, when we have our 1st round pick again and a new coach can replace Bryce with their own guy.  It’s the only way we can try and get someone with potential to be a quality long time HC.

25 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

He seems to change with the wind 

I don’t think it’s that as much as he just doesn’t understand the basic workings of the NFL

So he speaks his nonsense non-stop and then when people point out the obvious, he jumps on that train because he then sees he misses the obvious points that most knowledgeable fans already understand

1 hour ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

In FA you're probably right. What will likely happens is they franchise tag him and then trade him for value.

 

That's when he becomes more realistic.

 

 

If they let him become a FA then yeah no way he comes here. He can go to Houston a better market and a better QB to play with Stroud.

LOL

You literally just posted like 2 days ago that Higgins needed to be our top FA priority, I then quoted you and pointed out that he's not going to hit FA.

You're welcome

1 hour ago, OnlyPantherFaninMaine said:

Unfortunately I see both of them coming back for 2024 as an increasingly more likely scenario. Both need to be gone together, or both retained. We have yet to clean house appropriately. Dave has kept a GM, let go the Head Coach, kept the Head Coach, fired the GM. The half-ass approach is part of the reason we are where we are currently. I tend to agree with the poster above… Scott and Frank have already made their bed in 2024. The purge will be next offseason most likely when results are much of the same. Let and new GM and Head Coach come in with a clean slate and their 1st round pick. Even then, going to be hard to attract top candidates with Dave at the helm. He likely has one of, if not the worst, reputations across the coaching ranks and front office/personnel folks. 

All of this, I’ve been saying it for weeks

I think most likely scenario is they are both brought back for next year, but both are gone by Week 6, if not earlier.

You’re just not going to get quality candidates interested in the jobs with the outlook of next year unless Bryce drastically improves over the rest of the season (and if that happens, it’s harder to fire Reich anyways).

Everyone wants the quick fix, but sometimes you just have to take your lumps and grow.  We’re taking our lumps next year, don’t put that on a new HC and GM and ruin them too, you let the creators of this mess go down with the ship.

Draft a new QB with our first in 2025, trade Bryce for whatever anyone will give us, and move on from this terrible chapter in franchise history 

On 11/12/2023 at 8:04 AM, CamWhoaaCam said:

I warned people all off-season about our lack of talent at WR.

 

People kept talking about TMJ potential. The guy has shown nothing his entire career. Mingo is a unproven rookie.

 

The fact that Thielen is our best WR shows you just how bad we are at that position. I don't think Bryce is a superstar talent, but we have to get the guy something to work with on offense.

 

I like that Fitt tried to get Higgins and Adams at the trade deadline. At least they recognize we need a #1 WR. Also I'm thinking Tee Higgins will be out #1 priority in FA this off-season.

Higgins is essentially only an option if we trade Burns

Bengals aren't likely to let him hit FA, if he does, then sure, he's our top target.

But they're almost assuredly going to tag and trade him, and we don't have the draft picks to make that trade (no way in hell should we be trading any future 1st round picks at the moment).

Hence, only way we have a chance at him is if we try and trade Burns to them for Higgins and picks or trade Burns for picks and use one to trade for Higgins.

Also, if we're going the trade route, I think I more likely lean towards trying to go after Aiyuk (who the 49ers are likely to trade as they won't be able to keep him long term with all their other big contracts) over Higgins, as I feel like he has a little more wiggle/quickness to his game than Higgins, but I'd be happy with either if we could.

On 11/12/2023 at 3:28 PM, TheBigKat said:

Watching him cook in Cincy and my mind ruminates on all the what if scenarios.

 

The Young miss would have been like we drafted Gabbert over Newton

Gabbert has a SB ring and has put together a long career in the NFL

Taking Bryce over Stroud is closer to if we were to have taken Jake Locker over Cam

43 minutes ago, BrisbanePanther said:

We sometimes go too hard on the navel-gazing. Houston is already that team--O'Brien, Culley, Lovie sacked three years straight. Funny thing is, 97% of this board would love to be in Houston's shoes, so sack everybody until they show they have it right from camp and preseason. If Cal (not a good owner) and Caserio (a questionable GM) had that view, Ryans isn't their coach today. Stroud (and Anderson) are not on that team. 

There is nothing less special about Carolina amongst the other moribund franchises. We're not the Stillers or 9ers or Ravens. Churn as much as necessary. We're down on Bryce, but no other franchise would be a significantly better opening if Frank is gone. It's the perfect situation for a new person to have a year or two to decide if Bryce is his guy or if he wants to pick his own in 2025/26. Enough offensive coaches/coordinators will relish the opportunity to "fix" him/this offense and if they look promising enough they'll have the opportunity to do so or replace him.

Texans don't totally count for firing a HC 3 years in a row, since part of the reason they did it, was because they knew they were going to get Ryans as he's a team legend and wanted to go there (they also got a ton of bad PR from doing it 3 years in a row though too).

There 1000% will be better openings if Frank is gone than we would be with Bryce

First, unless the Chargers make a run to the AFC championship game, Staley is gone, and an opening with Herbert is automatically the most attractive job out there.

I think the Bears fire their HC too, especially if they end up with the top pick thanks to us, they're going to want an offensive minded HC for their new QB, so that's more attractive for the type of coach we want.

Raiders are still the Raiders, more attractive

Washington has a new owner who might make it more attractive than working with Tepper (and Rivera is gone for sure)

I could also see the Giants ending up in a position to draft a new QB to replace Jones, if they're that bad, Daboll could get the boot too, and they'd be more attractive.

Then who knows if there will be other unexpected firings, like if the Cardinals replace Kyler with a top pick, they could also decide to make a change after just 1 year to a more offensive minded HC.  Or if the Patriots and Belichek part ways, they're the freaking Patriots, we're the Panthers.

There is no scenario where we are an attractive HC opening this offseason unless there ends up only being like 1 or 2 other openings out there, and then by default there would be more interest, but the top candidates might decide to just wait a year.

34 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Sad truth. Who would honestly want to come here?

That's the problem and it's what I've said for a couple weeks now as people have called for Frank's head.

We're stuck with Bryce as our starter next year, no question about it, but if he's still not good and we get a Top 5 pick again, we 100% can and will replace him.

That's why I just think we have to keep Reich around, we don't want to get stuck with sub par HC candidates because they're the only ones who will come here right now.  While at the same time, we also don't want to be the team that fires a HC 3 seasons in a row, so it's not like you can just say we'll replace the HC again after next season.

28 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Johnson grew up in Asheville and was a Panthers fan during the Delhomme years 

If he wanted to be our coach, he'd have done it this past offseason when we had an opening and wanted him.

We're unequivocally worse right now and are saddled with a QB who is looking like a bust, why would he turn down the likely elite positions he's going to be offered for that if he turned us down in a better place last year?