tukafan21

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Bryce has shown signs of improving, and since QBs don't grow on trees, we should probably stick with him--my argument has been that we have not challenged him with competition.  What athlete is better when there is no competition? And if he can't keep the job, then you are not out $200m

Pretty sure that a QB contract payday is all the competition any QB in this league needs, I don't think a competent backup is going to make them play any harder when the current situation wouldn't warrant the contract extension yet anyways.

Your opening point in this post is also the problem, "Bryce has shown signs of improving", but that's still all he's shown, and he's only showing that because of just how bad he was to start his career.

If he played like last season from the beginning and never improved one bit, then I actually think more fans would be ready to move on from him, which is what's weird.  It's like going from one of the biggest draft busts of all time into the 25th best QB in the league over 3 years means he deserves a long term $40+ million a year contract extension.

Improvement shouldn't be the goal when the result of said improvement is still bottom of the league levels.

28 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

If he throws 4k 30 10 I will be the first to say extend him.  

Same here, and I've been one of the biggest anti Bryce people on here.

Now, even then, I won't want us to make him a Top 5 paid QB, I'd like to see it still be a deal in that 10-15 range of highest paid QB's and/or have it just be a 2 or 3 year deal.  But if he puts up a season like that, he'll have earned the extension and right to be our QB moving forward.

I don't think he'll have a season like that as I don't think he's good enough, but as I've said every year for the last 3 years and now the 4th straight year... Even though I don't think he's that good or can do that, I desperately want to be proven wrong, because Bryce turning into the player the team thought they were getting him after that trade, is still our fastest path to contention than needing to replace QB again.

50 minutes ago, chknwing said:

so Carolina finishes over .500 they are Legit?

I said this ALL last season and will say it again this year.

Our record means diddly squat this year, I don't care if we have 0 wins or 17 wins, I only care about one thing and one thing only.

Bryce proves without a shadow of a doubt that he IS or ISN'T our long term solution at QB.

It's the only thing that matters for the same reason it sucks that this is the same thing as last year.  This needs to be determined, and if they can't determine it, then it's still telling the team the answer, just not the one they want to hear.

As right now we're in the ultimate QB purgatory, a position that dooms franchises for years.  Just look at a team like the Cardinals, who extended a better QB and it still screwed them over and haven't had a contending team in a long time.

People get too caught up on wins and losses when evaluating players, particularly QBs.  When people look at the final record and use that as a reason to want to extend a QB or not is just a fools errand.  If we had lost 2-3 more games last year because we didn't make a last second FG, I genuinely wonder if we would have just moved on from Bryce this offseason (like we should have been doing anyways IMHO).

41 minutes ago, Castavar said:

I could see us ending up in that 5-7 win range again, while people make excuses for Bryce again, Bryce gets a contract extension because the front office feels the same way, and then we get to watch this all over for 3+ more years.

If we win 5-7 games and then extend Bryce, then he better have thrown for about 4k yards, with 30 TDs, less than 10 INTs, but we ended up with that record because the defense was riddled with injuries and allowed 30 points a game and cost us 3-5 wins that Bryce himself put us in position to win until the defense blew it.

7 hours ago, nogoodbum said:

Don't take this personal, but anyone who watches pregame or game broadcast on any of the four major networks & can't point out a dozen "experts" that Luke would do a better job than, is just not paying attention. IMO

Broadcast I agree with, he'd be a great color commentator, like the early days of Romo where he was constantly predicting what was about to happen, but I disagree with the pregame part for the same reason as my last post in here.  Pregame is about flash and hyping people up for the games, not granular level specific breakdown of film, which is what Luke does best.  

I actually don't think he'd be very good in the pregame role because of that, it's not what he does best and he doesn't have that Gronk/Burleson/etc type of excitement in his presentation style that is needed for those pregame shows.  

I almost think he'd actually be best suited to join the Manningcast for some games.  Having him and Peyton breakdown what they're seeing from each side of the ball on the same plays would actually be quite interesting to watch (although admittedly, he might be kinda boring when interviewing the guests there lol)

12 hours ago, Aussie Tank said:

Quick question seeing this is pretty much a QB thread. Would you put an offer in for Branden Sorsby if he enters the supplemental draft and what pick would you use? 

Yes, but it wouldn't land him in the end 

I'd put a 6th or 7th on him, maybe even a 5th, but any higher than that and it looks like what it is, a possible Bryce replacement.  I think doing that at this point would probably send his season sideways anyways, and if that happens, we'll have a high enough pick to get someone better than Sorsby.

But I'm sure some team out there will go as high as a 3rd for him, like the Jets

I don't love this role for him if I'm being totally honest

The pregame show is much more flash than substance and doesn't seem like the right fit for what Luke would bring to the table, and that's his vision of the game.

I'd like to see him do something where it more involves him breaking down film and explaining what he's seeing out there, as he sees the game in a way very few ever have.

50 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Gronk, Dallas Clarke, Kittle, etc. all say helloooo

Gronk is the best TE of all time, but he also played with Brady.

Clarke was great, but had Peyton and in an era TE's didn't make crazy money.

Kittle is great, but the two times he's made the SB, he was still on his rookie contract for one, and the other the 49ers had Purdy on a cheap rookie deal which help them build the rest of the roster.

So again, it's not about not wanting an elite TE, of course it would be nice.  But realistically, in today's NFL, unless that elite TE with a top end TE salary is on a team with a GOAT level QB and/or other serious cap savings (i.e. key players on rookie deals), then I think it's not a good use of cap space.  

We have big bodied WRs and 3 TEs who all have potential and each bring something different to the table.

I never saw the need to go out there and try and find a new starting TE.  While it's nice to have a guy like McBride, Bowers, etc, I think a team's better use of the cap is by having TEs on rookie contracts or cheap vets, not having to pay elite TE money.

4 minutes ago, AceMan said:

Huddlers will be very surprised when Bryce outlasts Dave Canales with the Panthers;

I expect if we have another slow/bad start, we'll fire Canales and give Bryce one last chance following season

If we're still bad enough that Canales gets fired, especially if it's during the season, there is no way we could ever attract any HC worthy of the job if we told them they had to keep Bryce their first year.

That would be 2 coaches he's gotten fired and 4 years of not performing up to par.

I still say replace both of them next offseason.  I like Canales the man and I think he's done an absolutely outstanding job at fixing our locker room issues, as it was really bad before he showed up.  But I just don't see it from him with his in game decision making, I think he's held us back just as much as Bryce has, just in different ways.

Canales was our Dan Campbell, the coach you hire to turn the franchises culture around for the HC after them to inherit and take to the next level.   The difference was he had some elite coordinators early on and really let him focus on his "leader of men" role as opposed to the X's and O's that Canales does himself and it's turned out well for him.

4 minutes ago, rmoneyg35 said:

I think people aren’t patient enough with Young. It can take a few years for a QB to develop. Look at Darnold, Baker and most recently Daniel Jones.

 

he hasn’t been able to put up big passing numbers either cause of how much we run the ball. You can tell our coaching staff still hasn’t took the training wheels off Bryce and let him go all out. We’ve had some pretty bad receivers as well. We finally got a true number one last year and look how much Bryce improved. Still we didn’t really have any depth behind TMac. Coker was hurt for a lot of the year and XL was our #2. How many big plays or TDs has XL dropped?

I think this year can be the year we see Bryce able to hit his stride. If not then we can start looking for another qb but I just ask people to be patient.

Except it takes those QB's a few years to develop because they needed to learn the mental side of the game and have it catch up to their physical attributes.

Bryce was supposed to be a QB savant who already had a fully developed mental side of the game and that was going to make up for his lack of physical ability.  And his lack of NFL level QB physical traits has been clear as day to anyone who has watched him the last 3 years, mainly, he just doesn't have an NFL arm, he can't zip the ball into tight spaces or throw on a line down the field like is needed at this level.

1 minute ago, OldhamA said:

Nobody is giving you a Draft pick for Young with a guaranteed $25m contract. 

Yes and no.

My post was more or less pretending we hadn't picked up the option yet, as what his trade value would have been yesterday.  But if anyone was going to trade for him with the hope that he took a step forward and could be their long term solution, they would be picking up the option after trading for him anyways (like we did with Darnold).

So us having already picked it up wouldn't stop a team from trading for him if they thought they could turn him into their future guy.

But yes, having picked up the option now makes him untouchable for any team hoping to use him as a backup this year.  Before the option, I think his max value would be to a team like the Packers for a 6th or 7th to backup Love this year.

40 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Honest question.   What do you think his trade value is today.  4/28/26?     I'd say maybe a 4rth.   

Nobody is giving up a 4th rounder for a backup QB

And anyone who needs a starter badly enough to where Bryce would then be their starter, is such a bad team that they're not giving up a pick likely to be about pick 105ish overall, instead of just dealing with a bad QB situation for a season and then drafting one in a loaded QB draft next year.

I'm looking through all the teams right now and can't think of a single one that would be willing to part with anything better than a 6th rounder.

Barring injuries (and excluding the Panthers), there look to be 10 teams who don't know with 100% certainty who their starting QB will be in 2027...

Dolphins, Jets, Browns, Steelers, Vikings, Colts, Saints, Falcons, Cardinals, and Rams.

Of those 10... 

The Rams know it will be Stafford or Simpson.  The Saints more than likely will be sticking with Shough unless he takes a huge step backwards.  So neither are giving up any draft picks for Bryce right now, just wouldn't make sense for either.

Down to 8

Given their current QB situation of having multiple QBs they already need to evaluate between this year, the Browns (Shedeur/Watson), Vikings (Kyler/JJ), Colts (Jones/Richardson/Leonard), and Falcons (Penix/Tua), wouldn't be giving up a 4th (or maybe any pick) to bring in another QB to muddy the waters even more.

Down to 4

Dolphins just signed Willis and wouldn't want to bring in another small Alabama QB who has struggled after just dumping Tua instead of just rolling with Ewers as the backup.  

That then leaves the Steelers, Cardinals, and Jets left as it's clear none of them have any idea who their 2027 could be as of right now.  But the Steelers would for sure rather just see what one of the 2 QB's they drafted in the last 2 drafts could become than give up a mid round pick for Bryce.  Same goes for the Cardinals in taking Beck this past weekend.

The Jets would be the most likely team to even consider taking him on with an eye for the future, but I think it seems very apparent right now given them rolling with Geno and now talk of bringing in Wilson to be his backup, they're punting on QB this year to draft someone next year, so why give up even a mid round pick for Bryce?

Then there are a handful of teams that probably would give up a 6th or 7th to be their backup to an entrenched QB.

2 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

I dont see why he cant be the bridge QB and whoever trades for him would renegotiate the contract

Really?

You don't see why a team can't draft a QB in the 1st round while then starting their former #1 overall pick over them while on the last year of their deal?

It puts the team in a TERRIBLE place no matter how the season goes.  If Bryce sucks, you have to answer questions as to why he was still on the team to begin with, let alone starting over the rookie.  If he's good, then you run into the situation the Vikings were in last offseason with sticking with the rookie contract or the the guy who just performed instead of said young QB.

It's one thing when teams keep a vet around as a bridge QB, it's something entirely different when that QB is still only in their mid 20's and was taken #1 overall by that team.  

That just doesn't happen and not sure it ever has in NFL history before.

12 minutes ago, bythenbrs said:

As distasteful as the extension is, the team purchased a year of optionality for $25M.  If the FO goes first round QB in 2027 draft, you still need a bridge QB for, say, $8-$10M.  The real cost of optionality is then $15M.  
 

I don’t like it but I understand it.  YMMV.

9 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

I dunno how you can keep him on the roster as a bridge QB if you draft his replacement in the 1st round and expect things not to be super awkward. At the same time if he blow it this year nobody is going to trade for that $25M contract so if he bombs we're in a bit of a pickle. 

Yea, if we draft a QB in the 1st next year there is a literal 0% chance Bryce is on the roster for even OTA's, let alone by the time camp comes around

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

His point is the Lions could have a hole at either RT or LT with Sewell being able to play both at a high level.  They could have easily kept Sewell at RT where he has been playing at an elite level and draft Freeling to be their LT.  It almost makes more sense.  I also think painting these players into traditional LT or RT roles by their style is a little outdated.  With the way defenses are moving their DL and pass rushers around the RT needs to be just as quick at the LT anymore.  OG play is even considered more valuable now that it was in the past.  

I'm from Michigan and have had this discussion with my Lions friends, and they all agree with me, they were never going to take Freeling over Miller.  As, yes, you are correct, they could have left Sewell at RT and taken Freeling, but they are in a SB contention window right now.

An OL with Freeling at LT and Sewell at RT is not as strong as Sewell at LT and Miller at RT would be for this upcoming season and likely at least next year as well.

5 years it could be looked back upon as a long term "mistake" to take Miller over Freeling, but for a franchise like the Lions, you can't worry about the long term when you have current SB aspirations.  It's all about maximizing their current SB window over the next 1-3 years.

And it's not about style, it's about day 1 readiness, and a lot of "experts" aren't even sure if Freeling is ready to play Week 1 yet at the position he's used to, let alone switching to a side he hasn't played before, but a career starting RT is going to be more than ready to fill that role for them Week 1.

I'm 100% convinced that if our draft positioning was swapped, we'd have still taken Freeling, they'd have still taken Miller, and both teams would have got the OT that they preferred due to what each team needs right now and what their current realistic aspirations are for the 2026 season.

We're in a position where we can let our drafted OT sit and learn for a bit, they needed a week 1 starter, for me that's where this discussion becomes very easy to understand why each team took the player they did.

10 hours ago, Aussie Tank said:

Lions only have a hole at RT because they're moving thier all pro RT to LT 

Point being what?

It doesn't matter why they have the hole at RT, it just matters that they have it and because they have it, they were always taking Miller over Freeling.  Just like if we were ahead of them and both were on the board, we'd have also taken Freeling, and if Freeling was gone, I don't think we take Miller at all.

Taking a career RT would have made zero sense for us

2 hours ago, XClown1986 said:

If true, this is great news. We must have gotten enough information to know our guy would still be there at 19. Once Proctor went 12 and Ty Simpson went 13, we knew one of Monroe Freeling and Blake Miller would be there. I really think they liked Miller and would have taken him at 19 if the Lions had gone Freeling

Lions were never going Freeling over Miller for the same reason we wouldn't have taken Miller had Freeling not been on the board.

Miller is a career RT

Lions have a hole at RT, we have a hole at LT.

If we took Miller, it would have been for him to backup Moton until he retires and/or we release him, so the best case scenario is it would have been a wasted 1st round pick for at least 1, if not 2 years.  At least Freeling has a shot at playing this year without injury ahead of him, he absolutely can win the LT job if he earns it, but Miller would have never supplanted Moton this year unless he got hurt.

4 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

You really think they dump bryce after 8 wins?

I'll say the same thing this year that I said last year, wins and losses aren't important.

The only important thing is coming to a decision on Bryce one way or the other.  If he looks amazing but we find ways to lose, who cares we lost, we have our QB of the future.  If he looks terrible but we find ways to win, who cares that we won, we have to replace him.

And that's not me saying I don't want to see us win next year, just saying that wins/losses are secondary and far less important this season than coming to a 100% conclusion on what Bryce is for us.

Having said that, the only way I'll be okay with giving him an extension instead of replacing him is if he is a borderline MVP candidate and at minimum, an unquestioned Top 10 QB in the league next year.

Even just a season of slight improvement won't be enough for me, that's still not good enough to warrant a big extension, he has the team around him, he needs to show why he was the #1 overall pick, if not, good bye.

I think we go Theineman in this situation

2 hours ago, KillerKat said:

My projection. I think at WR its time to go with youth. This means Moore should be the odd man out. Horn can return both punts and kicks and Tremayne is a better WR than Moore. XL gets one more year to prove himself, although I could see a trade in the future which would mean Moore could stay.

For OL, I would like us to bring back Brady if we can. The RBs, Trevor can return both punts and kicks too. With the uncertainty of Brooks and Dillon, its hard to choose either one. I think the team would like for Brooks to have a breakout season to clear any uncertainty that he deserves a spot. For now, I have them both even and on the team.

DL looks solid as well as OLB. Watch out for the UDFA of Aaron Hall and Isaiah Smith at OLB. They look promising and could knock someone off the team. ILB is still the biggest weakness on the team. We need to upgrade that any means necessary. CB is strong and Im praying to all the Gods that Wheatley beats out Scott at FS. 

OFFENSE:
WR: Tetairoa McMillan - *Chris Brazzell II* - Brycen Tremayne
TE: Tommy Tremble - James Mitchell
LT: #Rasheed Walker# - *Monroe Freeling*
LG: Damien Lewis
C- #Luke Fortner# - *Sam Hecht*
RG: Robert Hunt - #Saahdiq Charles#
RT: Taylor Moton - #Stone Forsythe#
TE: Ja`Tavion Sanders - Mitchell Evans
WR: Xavier Legette - Jalen Coker - Jimmy Horn Jr.
QB: Bryce Young - #Kenny Pickett#
RB: Chuba Hubbard - Trevor Etienne - #AJ Dillon# - Jonathon Brooks

DEFENSE:
LE: Tershawn Wharton - Bobby Brown III 
NT: *Lee Hunter* - Cam Jackson
RE: Derrick Brown - LaBryan Ray
LOLB: Nic Scourton - Patrick Jones II 
LILB: Trevin Wallace - Bam Martin-Scott - *Jackson Kuwatch*
RILB: #Devin Lloyd# - Claudin Cherrelus 
ROLB: #Jaelen Phillips# - Princely Umanmielen
LCB: Jaycee Horn - Akayleb Evans
RCB: Mike Jackson - *Will Lee III* - Chau Smith-Wade
SS: Tre`von Moehrig - Lathan Ransom
FS:  Nick Scott - *Zakee Wheatley* - Demani Richardson 

SPECIAL TEAMS:
K/KO: Ryan Fitzgerald
P/H: Sam Martin
KR: Trevor Etienne - Jimmy Horn Jr.
PR: Trevor Etienne - Jimmy Horn Jr.
LS: J.J. Jansen 

* = Draft Pick
# = Free Agent / Trade
() = Undrafted Free Agent
 

Here's the thing, I like the draft we just had, and while a lot of what to like about it will be seen a few years down the line, we still basically need Hecht and Brazzell at minimum to be starters week 1, and hopefully Wheately and maybe Freeling as well.

We were a sub .500 team last year and we're still not yet a contender, there is no way we can leave a draft with only one starter coming out of it, and that being a 2nd round NT.

In reality, teams have 3 starting WRs now and Brazzell should be #3 over XL, as if he can't beat out XL coming out of camp, my expectations for him will drop from what they are right now.  Hecht is going to have every opportunity to take that starting spot at Center and I hope/think he will do so.  And Wheately just has to beat out Scott.

53 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

Let's put a cherry on top of this offseason...

ehhhhhh

I get it, as a pass catcher he's an upgrade over what we have right now, but I'm also much higher on our TE room's potential than many on here.  Plus, our big WRs in T-Mac, Brazzelle, and Coker already take on some of the roles that TE's play on most teams with a smaller WR room anyways.

Bringing in an oft injured 30 year old instead of giving snaps to the young guys to see if they can turn into a long term TE solution just doesn't make sense to me.  If we were in an actual SB window, totally different story, but we're still a few years away from that right now and Njoku wouldn't be around then anyways, so we need to roll with the youngsters and see what they are.

Given the size we have at WR, I like rolling with young/cheap TE by committee anyways, use that cap space elsewhere.

Would have liked to take a swing on a QB, but if he can make an impact on ST as a rookie, will be a good pick