Mage

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That's assuming 2-3 years of HR draft after HR draft. That's not really a realistic goal for us, IMO. Possible but not realistic.

Panthers aren't in a great spot, but plenty of examples in teams in spots similar to us turning it around within 2-3 years.  All it takes is one.

Hell, look at all the takes about the Texans 2 years ago.  Yeah they got CJ Stroud, but who knows what is in store for the Panthers?  Maybe we get our CJ Stroud in 2025 or 2026.  You just never know.  I don't think you can call a 2-3 year turnaround unrealistic though.

The biggest problem with the Panthers roster is the lack of top-end players.  Derrick Brown is probably the only guy on the roster who would be top 10 at their position.  Maybe Moton would be too, but I'm not going to lie and pretend like I'm familiar with all the right tackles in the NFL.

Jaycee Horn could be a top 10 CB... if he stayed healthy.  Otherwise, yeah, I agree that this roster is more talented than people think.  We've got a bunch of good, quality players and young guys with upside.  I think our depth is stronger than it was last year.  However those top-end players who can win you a possession are what makes the difference in most games.  This is why we need one of our recent high-draft picks to step up and be that player, whether it is Bryce, Legette, Ikem, Sanders, Brooks, Mingo, etc.  

This is why I'm generally not a fan of trading good players away.  Replacing them is not nearly as easy as it seems on paper, although I do think we did a good job bringing in multiple players on the DL to help with the loss of Burns.  You need to keep your best players.  Say what you want about Hurney, yeah he did overpay a lot... but at least he kept them.  

11 minutes ago, frankw said:

Have I told you or AceBoogie or anyone to "stfu" for voicing an opinion? Honest question. I guess you simply conveniently missed that post btw.

Enough with this blaming others for every Bryce thread mess. I've made zero Bryce threads. I left yesterday and come back this morning and there are two different Bryce threads at the top of the first page going strong with replies. This isn't going anywhere with or without me. People here are grown and choose to create these threads read these threads and engage. If you don't want to deal with any of this then log out or stop refreshing threads.

Maybe I'll take a hiatus until the season opener on Sept 8th.

What do you think the over/under will be on the number of new Bryce Young threads and unrelated threads derailed into Bryce Young threads will be in my absence?

Let's give it a go.

When did I accuse you of making Bryce Young threads?  I said you make a lot of posts talking about how bad Bryce Young is in almost every thread that you post in, regardless of what the thread was about (such as this one).  

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If you don't want to deal with any of this then log out or stop refreshing threads.

This is rich coming from the person who spent the last year complaining about "Bryce fanboys."  Now he's giving advice about how to deal with stuff you don't want to read.  

4 minutes ago, Tbe said:

 

 

Excited if this is how his usage plays out on game-day.  While there are questions about his ability as a receiver to run routes and get open consistently, I don't question his athleticism or physicality.  He could play that Deebo role for us while he develops at receiver.

20 minutes ago, frankw said:

New year? Fresh perspective?

You gave up on him. You threw in the towel.

Yet now you want to be the first and official word on how to root for him and the Panthers?

There's a word for this. Clownery.

Nobody is asking you to root for him.  We (or at least I am) are asking you to stop derailing every single thread by bringing up Bryce Young. And you do this constantly. 

And this isn't me saying that we shouldn't have negative takes about Bryce on this forum, so before you accuse of me of trying to eliminate negative posts about Bryce, that isn't the case at all.  However, to me, it is weird to come into a thread that was about highlighting our offseason/OTAs, and unprompted, you go into bashing Bryce Young.  There are at least 5 other threads on the first page alone where you could have trashed Bryce.  And you know this, because you have in all of them threads.

You're a smart guy from what I can tell but your disdain for Bryce has become obnoxious, even if you are right about him.  If a Bryce fan bombarded every single thread to talk about how good they felt he was, you wouldn't like it.  I know this because anytime this discussion happens you bring up "Bryce fanboys," when in fact everything you accuse them of doing?  You do the same thing except from the opposite side.   

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, it's like the PJ Walker thing the last couple years BUT actually being largely serious.  There was some legit belief Matt Moore might be Jake Vol 2.   

If I'm being honest,  he had me fooled big time.  I thought he was going to be the one and didn't understand why we drafted Clausen (which was still a bad move, but only because he sucked).

With that said, the coaching staff and front office/owner failed that team big time.  It makes no sense that a team with the talent that we had finished 2-14.  Matt Moore might not have been a franchise QB but he was a lot better than he showed in 2010.

I think this has to be #1.

I kinda get why some are saying 2010, but I disagree.  A lot of people were optimistic about Matt Moore.  And while yes, we didn't do anything to get better that offseason due to the lockout looming, it wasn't a bad team.  Or so we thought anyway.  We had one of the best defenses in 2009 and were returning all of our best players (both on offense and defense) outside of Peppers.  

And if you combined both rosters, which player from the 2024 team would make the top 10?  Derrick Brown but that is probably it.  

I'd say 2024 and 2022 have been the 2 worst.  A new coaching staff is the only reason to be excited about this upcoming season.

5 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

They’re backing themselves into a corner if this goes south 

They’re talking about getting his feet right and the ball coming out quick. Well if that doesn’t work there’s nothing left to do. Given the fact Young was drafted 1st due to his ability to process on paper this sounds like the perfect combination

There will be no excuses left after this year for Bryce. 

There is no reason to think the team would stick with Bryce if he continues to look terrible this year.  I'm not sure why so many people are concerned about that.  Not necessarily saying you are, it is just a sentiment I see a lot around here.  

The fact of the matter is the leash for QBs has NEVER been shorter in league history.  Trey Lance didn't even get a 3rd season with the 49ers.  Zach Wilson only got 2 seasons (they didn't plan for him to start his 3rd year) and he's on a new team.  And the Panthers have been cycling through QBs like hot cakes under Tepper.  There just isn't any reason to think the Panthers won't be willing to move onto Bryce.

IMO the only way Bryce looks bad and is still on the starter next year is if the Panthers aren't picking top 3 and can't get a first round QB that they like.  And even then, I would expect the team to make a play in free agency.  So I don't think they are backing themselves in a corner.  

The real issue is the fact that this thread had nothing to do with Bryce Young, and yet once again somehow, someway, someone found a way to talk about how bad he is again.  It is just exhausting reading it over and over and over again, like we get it.  Bryce sucks.  And you can't even blame the "Bryce fanboys" because again, nobody had even talked about Bryce in this thread until that post.

Can we not just sticky a "Bryce sucks" thread at the top of the forum?

19 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

You’re exhausting. Stfu

You have to forgive him. He has to make sure all the Bryce Young fans know how bad he is.

14 hours ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

FPI is also giving the Panthers a 4.5-percent shot at making the playoffs and a 2.7-percent shot at winning the NFC South.

I don't expect we will be good this year, but I would put a small bet on those odds.  We play in the worst division in the NFL and the best QB in the division (Cousins) is coming off a torn Achilles.  

Patriots and Titans have to deal with tough divisions and good QBs.  Broncos have Mahomes and Herbert in their division.  So if you are a betting man and planned to put money on any of the bad teams going into the season, then the smart play very well could be the Panthers.  

I think this defense will be a lot better than non-Panthers fans are expecting.  Although that will require Horn staying healthy.

I don't know how many wins I'm expecting.  We're a young team, so even if we do show a lot of improvement, that could still mean only 5-6 wins.

9 hours ago, KSpan said:

Having more than one team/person/etc willing to make a mistake doesn't automatically make it a good thing to do.

I literally said in my other post that we still deserve criticism, so what are you talking about?  Do you even know what my initial post was about?  Never once did I say it was okay to draft a bust because other teams draft busts.

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 Do we deserve criticism for that?  Absolutely. 

Mods, feel free to put me in my place if I'm going too far.  But it needs to be said.

Some of you need to start reading posts in full instead of making it ALL about Bryce every single damn time.  Ultimately my point was that drafting QBs is hard, and if it wasn't the Panthers mistake, it would have been another teams.  Just like Trey Lance, just like Mac Jones, just like Blake Bortles, just like Blaine Gabbert,... I can go on and on.  

Yes, Panthers screwed up (assuming Bryce doesn't improve).  Yes, we should be criticized.  But it happens.  The guy asked how it happens and I was just answering his question.  That teams miss on QBs every year, because getting a QB is hard and teams will take every opportunity they can to get one. 

But I'm not about to sit and discuss this with someone who thinks Levis even had .001% chance of going ahead of Bryce.  That tells me all I need to know.  No reasonable person would even throw him in the discussion.

36 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

::sigh::

I like how everyone is so fixated over this one thing as opposed to my overall point, which is that drafting QBs is hard.

You really think if Stroud went No. 1, the Texans weren't going to take Bryce?  And if the Texans took Richardson, the Colts wouldn't have taken Young or traded it to someone who would?  Some of ya'll really be acting ridiculous.  Bryce was not dropping out of the top 3.  And almost certainly would have went #2 to the Texans if the Panthers took Stroud.  

It really blows me that some of you are saying otherwise, when even the most glued-in Texans beat writer has said the Texans wanted Bryce.  But I'm sure you know better than him.

9 hours ago, KSpan said:

Seems to be the case, but we really don't know that either for sure. Maybe AR or even Levis (doubtful, but just for the sake or argument) would have been their choice if Carolina takes Stroud.

Bruh, just stop.  Levis was not going over Bryce lol.  "Doubtful" come on now.  

No disrespect but that is just a foolish take even with you acknowledging how doubtful it was.  Levis didn't even go in the 1st.  Seriously, what are we doing here?  

8 hours ago, KSpan said:

BS. They clearly thought Stroud was at LEAST as good as Young or they wouldn't have stood pat, and wouldn't shock me at all if Stroud was the target all along.

Okay.  I don't care to argue about who the Texans preferred.  My point still stands.  Had the Panthers taken Stroud, Texans would have taken Young.  Either way a team was going to make the "mistake" because drafting QBs is hard.

8 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

This get parroted and parroted and parroted when in reality you simply have no idea if that is true, what we do know if the texans wanted him they could have moved up with chicago and then chicago would have traded again with either us or indy

Regardless, Bryce Young would have fell no lower than 3rd overall.  My overall point still stands.  Teams miss on QBs all the team.  Do we deserve criticism for that?  Absolutely. However again the same mistake we made, another team (regardless of the team) would have made in the top 3.  Because finding a QB is hard and teams overdraft QBs every year.

59 minutes ago, Green-Ghost said:

If Bryce Young was so bad, how was the mistake made to actually draft him?

Because drafting is hard, especially at the QB position.  The same "mistake" the Panthers made was the exact same "mistake" the Texans had every intention of making had they picked first overall.

17 minutes ago, frankw said:

He was what. 46th in passer rating for the 2023 season?

Do I want him to be a good QB? Yes.

Is he based on last seasons tape? Absolutely not.

What is it with this fanbase and being averse to recognizing reality? Seriously.

I thought Bryce looked like mini-Mahomes at times last year.  Passer rating can only tell you so much.  Bryce made a lot of big plays that don't show up on the stat sheet.

14 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

You all do realize that if Bryce Young flops, the Panthers are bottom dwellers for the next 3+ seasons, right?

Eh, you never know in the NFL.  Teams turn it around quickly all the time.  Look no further than the Texans.  

I'm not saying we'll do it.  But you never know.  Hell maybe we end up with the No. 1 pick in 2025 again and fleece a team like how the Bears did us.

3 hours ago, frankw said:

It would be nice to see #9 prove people like this laughably wrong.

That's why many Panthers fans myself included were wanting to see how much time he'd dedicated to his craft following the conclusion of the season but then he showed up and let everyone know he pretty much crawled under a rock. Somehow the Panthers social team thought this was rather amusing after what we'd sacrificed for the rights to draft him. Baffling lack of awareness all around.

It's interesting that we go from Levis being least desirable of the class and a complete and total meathead that would alienate himself from his teammates to being talked up as possibly emerging as one of the better young QB's entering the 2024 season.

Man what a whirlwind the last 12 months have been for the people who fully bought the hype machine in the lead up to the 2023 NFL draft and did victory laps like they had their very own sports almanac from BTTF.

Life comes at you fast folks.

You don't think Bryce Young is a good QB?

Obligatory Jonathan Stewart stiff arm gif

5 hours ago, Basbear said:

Bro they shouldn't have won those 2 games either. It took a couple 4th down conversions and 2 last second FGs. 

But they did win.

39 minutes ago, Buckeye Homer said:

Patrick Mahomes was tied for 20th in yards per pass completion.  

That isn't because he wasn't trying to push the ball downfield.  His receivers just sucked.

13 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

Interesting size comparison 

If you only look at measurables, Mingo and Legette might seem similar.  But when you actually look at them and watch them play, they aren't close to the same.  

And this is coming from someone who is skeptical about Legette, although ultimately I believe he will work out.  I've just always disagreed with the comparisons to Mingo.  

Mingo tests better than he plays/runs, whereas Legette plays/runs as well as he tests.