Bear Hands

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

Are you truly a "dawg" if you need negative bulletin board material to bring out the best in your game?  I would think a dawg is someone who consistently puts in the work regardless of external factors.  Otherwise that would suggest that they're not playing up to their potential without that extra motivation.

On a bit of a side note: Cam obviously brought a huge amount of energy and hype on and off the field and we loved him for that, but one of his most badass moments IMO was that Giants shootout game where they had just scored and the camera panned to him off the field where he just calmly nodded his head, put on his helmet, and knew it was time to go out there and respond to win the game.  It seems like that kind of cool, calm, collected demeanor is looked down upon here in favor of the more fiery archetype.  I haven't seen evidence to suggest that there's a correlation between a player's temperament and their performance.  I think we tend to see players struggle on the field and then assign reasons for their failures largely based on assumptions combined with our own preconceived opinions on what the recipe for success entails.

It's all about balance in a way.  Guys who can lead with fire in the locker room, put their study cap on when they need to, get game-day laser focused/cool-as-a-cucumber in the pocket when the moments come, etc.  Different moments require being adaptive and perceptive to team and game needs.  It all culminates within the guys who have the "it".

Does he have it?

Not saying Bryce has or doesn't have those traits required, but from what I've observed he's rather chill on and off the field so certain personalities that can help a team will need to come from elsewhere.  It's been few and far between (but has happened) when his more vibrant and competitive self noticeably comes out of the shell.  

Nothing against him though, but having the respective Smitty, Cam or Luke type personalities can really help with culture and bringing a locker room together - and it can effect play in a good way.  But at the end of the day, that can come from the OL, QB, a star RB or WR.  Doesn't have to be QB - plenty of SB winning examples to show for.  

It would just be nice to have some real energy and excitement on this team again.  It's been a massive void for me for quite some time now, hope some dudes coming in like Dionte, XL, & Brooks can bring something in this regard too.       

46 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Him and Canales both said they don't use this kind of stuff. Not into negative motivation or something. Seems a little counter intuitive when the gm is trying to otherwise build a team of dawgs

"I want dawgs"

"We're just here to be positive and take our best foot forward, oh gosh, oh golly, look how beautiful it is outside today"

Let's hope it's all what it seems--in other words: coach and player speak to the media lol

22 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I think Bryce has a little swagger to him when he gets comfortable. Watch some of those Bama games. I saw him doing the “karate kid crane” celebration with Metchie, getting fired up with his WRs etc… 

There were stories of his locker room speech which none of us saw so who knows. I saw a little (pun intended) glimpse when he did the Cam first down taunt after his run. There are some clips of him and CJ going back and forth on who is the better basketball player. I think on the field he will show some of it if he can get comfortable. The scripted, reserved Bryce is what you see in interviews and press conferences because he has been coached that way most of his life. 

Yeah can't discount that he can't bring a cocky, beat the world mentality when his back's against the wall.  But you're also right, this kid is super coached.  That's what growing up in Pasadena under a heavily directed football life at one of the OC's better HS football programs will get you.  Also - I still can't imagine what his HS commute was like.  Yeesh.  

13 minutes ago, KSpan said:

And again with something completely out of touch with the reality of what your posts are doing, which is creating potential parallels between Smith, Mills, and Bryce. And yet you argue that you aren't...

Your posting attitude has sucked for a good while but has hit insufferable lately. Blech. Happy Thursday. 

Let's keep it chill.  Same goes for the Claw guy, especially.  

Seems like we’ve got more than “dawgs” or whatever. This class seems like a good crop of guys with some heavy life experience and came out stronger. Just seem like good people too. Really hope this is a high end class. XL, Brooks, and Wallace and Sanders could all be high impact guys and quickly.

12 minutes ago, CRA said:

Bryce Young is Eli Manning-ish IMO.  I mean, it's not that you can't be successful with a QB wired like that.  But Bryce Young doesn't check so many of the textbook boxes you look for. 

Eli didn't check that box either.  Problem is Bryce just doesn't check so many of them.  They add up at this level.

That’s a pretty good comp mentality wise. And you’re right, to expand on that— if you’re not the ra-ra team hype man, not the late night film guy, not the physically imposing guy, not the cannon, not the hyper athletic playmaker..it gets tough when there’s so few boxes that you check and the ceiling can only be so high.  He can be successful in the right environment but that’s not what you want with this type of investment.

Its going to be a hugely important year for him. 

Just now, CRA said:

if rookie Cam Newton walked into the Panthers org today.....you got to think Bryce Young is the type player Cam would be talking about when he starts talking in house mentality.  Just saying. 

In an offseason fixated on dawg talk, Bryce Young said he spent the offseason doing except thinking about football.  Other teams got dudes talking about doing all nighters doing nothing but thinking about the game. 

Yep. I’m not trying to be an excessive Bryce dissenter, but it is pretty apparent he’s not one of those hyper football junkies. He’s a very even keel dude that approaches it professionally and calmly. Not game junkie. For him it’s his job and he’s there to perform as best he can. 

36 minutes ago, frankw said:

Even all the rookie QB's who haven't played a single snap ranked above him?

I really hope Bryce is using all this as motivation in some capacity. Because if this doesn't motivate him I don't know what will.

He confirmed in his presser he doesn’t look for extra motivation from being left out of stuff like primetime games and whatnot. That he’s just there to do his darnest.

Good optics answer, but it is nice to have a guy who doesn’t like being disrespected and takes it as motivation. I want fire and an edge to this team - hope someone on offense can bring it.

I'm very excited about these two.  

50 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

 

Given how much of a hype guy he is, not great hearing from him that the offense was “rusty” but we’ll see.

This is hard knowing what we saw last year but with a new staff, OL, and weapons...but the same QB.

1 Saints game, Giants, Denver, 1 Bucs, & 1 unexpected

We're back to 5-12.  Maybe 4-13. I'd be concerned with 3-14 or worse.  

9 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

I'm undecided. He comes off as a Pelaton instructor that's a bit overwhelmed with this football thing. 

You nailed it with Pelaton instructor lol

14 hours ago, jb2288 said:

Both those guys are third round picks too. Insane how terrible we have been in the draft since shitterer was here. Fingers crossed we got it right this year 

Not to mention we had the pick the Texans traded for to draft Nico lol

1 minute ago, Jackie Lee said:

Some of his footwork issues are definitely tied to his height/size however you want to say it. Mainly the hesitancy to step into the pocket when there's pressure, the bunny hopping which inevitably gets his feet parallel. The latter also affects his timing, when he does see an open guy he's not ready to throw so he either uses all arm or wastes time resetting his feet and the ball gets out late. 

I'm seeing what you see.  

A quick way to make it very apparent to even the casual is to just watch clips of Brees, Kyler or Russ and then go to Bryce.  It's what makes the larger media narrative that he's fine and we didn't give him enough super short-sighted.

He doesn't have a deliberate, sharp or efficient drop back.  He has this shallow walk and skip so he doesn't get back effectively enough to give himself lines of sight.  His demeanor and style should be reserved for a guy that's 6'3 plus.  He got used to this because he would roll out so much in school and find Jameson or Burton on the fly.    And because he gets lost in these shallow, collapsing pockets, he has nowhere to go and gets super frenetic.  

At the end of the day, it's a no for me.

The speed & quickness in NFL clean pockets is not the same and he just looks overwhelmed to be able to stand in the pocket and make basic throws.  He just can't at times.  Bad OL or WRs be damned.  It was pretty obvious.  Poor mechanics, off balance throws, bad decision making, average arm.  The field felt like it was 200 yards watching him.  Surprisingly tough and has a good head on his shoulders, but that doesn't just offset his poor performance as a #1 overall selection.  

That's where I'm at, and I'll gladly be wrong if he comes out swinging.  

But am I saying he can't be a guy a team like SF could insert and make work? No.  He has the mentality, but it's right there for us to see now.  At his best, he's a middle of the road starter that could be on a playoff squad, maybe. Big maybe.  And that's just the reality. 

I don't see any traits that he's going to take the team on his back and win games.  Personally, the Bears game was the final straw for me. 

He's positioned himself into "prove-it" territory rather than, the idea that we saw flashes but he was hung out to dry.  

14 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

XL is a downfield big play receiver All day. The question is will he get legit opportunities to do that.

Yep. It’s that or you work him in motion and get him the ball quickly, early.

With his downfield play, even if he’s got the ups, you want to be throwing him open and leading him, like any receiver. 

A big detriment to Bryce’s game last year and in college was his deep ball accuracy. Hopefully it can improve with a guy like XL. Because he can beat man with his speed and muscle—he’s a third down vertical threat for sure. A problem is are these going to be jump balls with no YAC potential or can we figure this deep ball game out with the kid at QB.

3 hours ago, rayzor said:

yeah there's a good few things that come into play.

should BY have thrown better balls? yes, but he didn't.

should BY have been in a better situation so he could throw better balls? yes, but he wasn't (thank play design and crappy blocking)

should mingo have been able to make adjustments back to the ball and make things happen  when throws were (much) less than perfect? yes. 

again, i'm hoping that XL can be that guy and that Brooks shows to be a solid dump off target. JT should be a good target as well.

What we desperately needed was a quick zone beater which we got in Dionte. That was the bigger need to help handicap our chap at QB.

XL is the large catch radius to make up for his strays and floaters so the team is trying to cover both ends that previously weren’t. 

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Is this where Bryce apologizing has gotten to? LOL!

We're now blaming receivers for not performing miracles on the field and pulling off the impossible.

Both can be true and are. There’s no apologizing. The dude even lays it out.

So when his QB was inaccurate, he did the least with uncatchable balls.

Being more of a body catcher and his lack of short area quickness, and Reich/Brown’s awful play designs, it makes sense why.

2 hours ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Sanders looks like a helluva player to me too, how many drops did he have?

Zero in 2023. 4 in all of college in 140ish targets.  2.8% rate.  And he was inline and out.  

Average is usually around 5-5.5%.  Bad is 8%+

Best in NFL history catch rates (I.E. Ertz, Olsen, Reed) are sub 3.0% at their career volumes.  So good indicator, but small sample size so far.  But he is super reliable.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilroyzkrystalball/

velocity discussion aside, it will definitely be interesting to see him this year, compare eye test to last, and what iffy tendencies carry over. 

We all will be able to tell fairly quickly if we're looking at the same guy as last season, or a refreshed prospect fitting better in a better situation.  

In short-It will be obvious if he's a fish out of water rather quickly after a full offseason in the big leagues

long form-

We saw a glimpse of maybe an above average/top-15 starter-level potential, at his best (and that was like 1 game).  Otherwise, his "good" felt kind of like what you saw when the Raiders threw in O'Connell or the Giants with the Italian dude and they had their moments.  The Colts and Texans were simply different teams, for the better, with their guys on the field respectively. 

My biggest concern is still-- let's say the conditions are optimal, what will Bryce do to take it to the next level and put the team on his back?  I want to see glimpses of what that could be, not just elevated stat lines in a more friendly system.  This is going to take more than mostly looking like the same guy and having a handful more Green Bay 2023-level games.

This is about getting his feet and arm coordinated, footwork better, drop backs more consistent, pocket awareness elevated, throws more deliberate, reads/head movement in pocket, there's just a lot that needs to be kicked up a notch and it will be easy to see if it's the same guy or not rather soon.   

Watching Sanders, I see a lot of Evan Engram to his game.  The nice thing is he has a slightly bigger build and better upside as a blocker - so could line up in a few different spots.  I really like his potential.  

Also - he's young.  I'm telling you, a big playoff caliber program like that, with an up and down QB, doesn't just target a TE 139 times in his 27 college games before the age of 21 for no reason when they had Mitchell, Worthy, & Wittingham out there. 

Young, great ceiling, I really hope this kid can produce for us.

Thanks - good stuff