Hogan

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I really don't think this narrative is accurate. The guy hold the ball forever and the NFL is more and more becoming a league about getting the ball out as fast as possible. If Caleb can't speed up his processing I don't think he's going to translate.

As you say my friend, there are NO 100% guarantee NFL QB's playing college football. 

On 10/9/2023 at 12:30 AM, tukafan21 said:

There's a couple really weird aspects about this whole thing.

First is that if we don't make the trade, we're likely nowhere near the worst team in the league and thus wouldn't have even ended up with the #1 pick in the draft anyways.  We'd have still had DJ, whoever we would have taken at 9, someone else in the 2nd, and ended up with like a Jacoby Brissett at QB, that's a better team than what we have right now.

The other, is that the trade might end up being so bad that instead of setting us back 5-7 years, it actually might expedite the re-build and get it started sooner.  If after year 2 or 3, we're in a position to draft a new QB, which we very well may be, then I think we do and the re-set starts sooner than the usually 4-5 year window that a high first round pick would usually get before the team tries to re-set.

And honestly, I'm not seeing anything out of this team that says we won't be picking right back in the Top 5 in 2025 again.  There really isn't much at all to be positive about with this team right now, at least not in terms of anything positive for the long term success of this franchise.

As I posted above, the way the Panthers COULD have had the top pick is to make it contingent. Make the trade and make the 2024 pick contingent. "If we are in the top five, we keep it and give you our 2025 pick."

On 10/8/2023 at 11:42 PM, CamWhoaaCam said:

For sure it will be the moment we hand the Bears the #1 overall pick which happens to be a transcendent QB in Caleb Williams.

 

Any time a team has the #1 and #2 pick in the draft back to back you're going down in history those are franchise changing situations.

Just curious...

Most people will admit that no one has any idea who will go from college to NFL and be a "transcendent" QB. Except you. Some how, you know that Williams WITHOUT  question will be better than Drake Maye in the NFL. I also remember you posting this summer that Justin Fields would have a breakout year in '23. 

This leads to: What will Chicago do? Pass on generational QB Williams and keep generational QB Fields? 

How do you know these things when virtually no one can predict who will be a great NFL QB? 

On 10/8/2023 at 10:23 PM, TN05 said:

Doesn't matter if he pans out eventually. The entire idea behind it was to win now, and we inexplicably traded out future #1 pick and top wideout for a a QB with "elite processing" and zero elite traits. The entire team has regressed in every department. Nothing is going right. Not only are we not winning now, we're not winning at all.

This might still be tolerable if Bryce Young looked like a #1 pick, but he doesn't. Our superprocessor, Napoleon Bonaparte of a quarterback is making some of the worst decisions you'll ever see, leading to Clausen-esque interceptions, with very little to show otherwise in any time other than garbage time. The coaching staff clearly has no faith in him. The fact he doesn't have weapons or the best line in the league does not matter - if he's not ready to carry a team, we should not have traded what we did for him.

As far as I can tell, no NFL team that traded a first round pick has ever ended up with it being the #1 pick. We will likely end up being the first. This is an outright embarrassment and the worst trade I can think of that we've ever done. Oddly enough, this was one time analytics would have helped Tepper because literally nothing about Young's physical profile screams "NFL quarterback". It will take years to dig ourselves out of this mess.

And before you mention it - no, Sean Gilbert doesn't count. This is because it wasn't actually a trade (it was signing a player under another team's franchise tag), and because Gilbert wasn't actually terrible - he was one of the better pieces on our 1999 and 2000 defenses, just not anywhere near the price of two first-round picks. The most disastrous part of Gilbert was his salary.

I spoke with someone in the Panther organization last week and asked about the trade. We all know that DJ Moore was a deal breaker. Chicago had to have Moore to make the trade. But...my question was this: Was the 2024 1st round pick a deal breaker? Explanation: Did Fitterer even ATTEMPT to make the 2024 pick contingent? Like, "IF our 2024 pick is a top five pick, we will keep it and give you our 2025 first round pick." This is done all the time. My guess is: Since the Panthers thought they would be good in '23, they didn't even mention this. 

This person stressed that DJ Moore was the deal breaker. I in turn stressed that it's time for a new GM.

1 hour ago, Castavar said:

Hmm, I wonder if the Panthers will FINALLY learn their lesson about overpaying RBs? Like I (and most huddlers on here) have said, you can draft a 5th round RB and be successful, as long as your o-line is solid. RBs are a dime a dozen.

And...it doesn't take a brain surgeon to draft and develop a solid offensive line over a period of 3/4 years. It can be done...IF the GM knows what he is doing. The single most important position group on any team. It keeps the offense on the field and the defense off the field.

Just curious: Why don't people use the word "screw" any more? You know, like "Screw it."

And also "crap." Like "that was a bunch of crap." I don't think I'll ever get used to grown men using the word "poo."

4 hours ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

I wonder if Dave Tepper can lure ex-Steeler GM Kevin Colbert out of retirement  

How about Brandon Beane. I'm sure he's ready to come back to North Carolina. You really think he wants to live in that cold weather? Tepper should offer him a promotion. Isn't that how it's done in the NFL. To get someone from another team, it has to be a promotion. Make him President/GM. Pay him.

48 minutes ago, Cdparr7 said:

Now do Polian/Seifert

From my memory, the majority or large number of the 2003 Super Bowl team were Seifert's guys. 

8 hours ago, gmonjimbo said:

Thanks for sharing. I think For Fitt, Barno could be classified as a  contributor, plays special teams, and gets about 10-15 reps on defense for a sixth-round pick that's solid.

Overall though, the calling card for Fitt was Seattle was able to develop and hit on players that were taken on Day 2, 3, or UDFA (Richard Sherman, Bobby Wagner, Kam Chancellor, Doug Baldwin, etc.) 

This roster lacks depth and hasn't won anything this year, including preseason games. 

"Overall though, the calling card for Fitt was Seattle was able to develop and hit on players that were taken on Day 2, 3, or UDFA (Richard Sherman, Bobby Wagner, Kam Chancellor, Doug Baldwin, etc.)"

Are you saying Fitt was responsible for drafting Sherman, Wagner, Chancellor, Baldwin, etc.?

1 hour ago, The Crown and the Claw said:

So in essence a single piece of info was presented and it turns out the bets never really happened and you and your buddy actually just discussed the improbability of a team going undefeated? Cool 50 year old anecdote 

Under your name it says "Rookie." You should keep that one. First, you had time to do the math. Now, this response. Get a life.

44 minutes ago, The Crown and the Claw said:

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say this is made up as your HS buddy didn’t end up paying you $40,960. 
 

Everyone needs to relax, I can tell you that no one in the building is worried about Bryce at all. He’s shown flashes of exactly why every notable analyst had him ranked as the best QB prospect in the draft. There is absolute frustration over how the season has started and especially on how the OL/run game has performed. They are looking to make an upgrade at WR and help alleviate playing 8-9 in the box and believe the return of Corbs will have big impact. 
 

I believe there’s also been frustrations in the playcalling but wouldn’t expect any rash decisions on the coaching front at this time. 

Well, your limb broke. Correct, I didn't have to pay $40, 960 because, as friends, we laughed it off and said, "who wouldn't thunk..." The story is true. It never ceases to amaze me how people feel like they need to offer an opinion on something they know nothing about.

That said, my comment has nothing to do with "relaxing." I'm a reealist. There's no emition on my end. This is a very bad football team. They may not win one game. As far as Bryce, my assessment has nothing to do with him.

On 10/3/2023 at 4:46 PM, joemac said:

LOL we're not going to go winless.  For fugs sake, the Broncos gave up 70 points in Week 3 and were 0-3, and they won last week.  We have been in all our games so far.  We will win a few.  Not saying thats good or anything, but we're not going to go winless.

"LOL we're not going to go winless." In 1972, when I was in high school, a friend and I had a $5 bet on the Colts-Dolphins game. The Dolphins won. So, he let me go double-or-nothing bets the rest of the season because..."no way will the Dolphins go undefeated..." And the rest, as they say, is history.

I said Week 1 during the Atlanta game: "This team could go 0-17." Don't kid yourself Joe. They very well could go winless. They are that bad. 

10 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

why do we keep doing this?  You can find examples of qb going either way.  Its a stupid exercise

My response: Then no one should EVER offer an opinion about a college QB and how they will do in the NFL. Why? Because no one -- and I mean NO ONE -- knows how ANY college QB will do in the NFL.

So, shut down any thread that offers a take on how a college QB will do in the NFL. Why? Because, as you say, "it's a stupid exercise." Right?

Actually, it isn't a "stupid exercise." It's called: Offering an opinion and simply having fun in offering that opinion. Discussing football, uh, isn't really that serious. We're not offering an opinion about how we can attain lasting peace in the Middle East. 

2 hours ago, BrisbanePanther said:

But it wasn't 2 1sts right? One was a swap of 9 and 1. Then the 2024 1st. The transaction was a 2024 1st and DJ Moore for the right to swap places I thought.

Or was there another 1st that I missed? Otherwise we have to stop this "giving up 2 1sts" point--it's just not true...unless there's a 2025, 2026 or some other 1st that Chicago is owed.

True. My mistake. The Panthers traded their 2023 and 2024 1st round picks and DJ Moore for Bryce Young. Three good players for Young. Was that a good trade? I guess time will tell. I guess the Panther front office believed the 2024 pick wouldn't be very high so it was a good trade. Unfortunately for them, it's looking like it will likely be the first pick in the draft. Oops.

4 hours ago, joemac said:

Or, you know, he could dedicate himself and his ample resources to making this team a winner, and one that the people of Charlotte want to spend their hard earned money on to support. 

Sadly, I have it from a good source that Tepper really does care and wants to succeed. I was told this last winter during the coaching search. So, he listened. He really did. And that's why he fired Wilks. So he could hire an offensive minded coach. 

So, he does care and wants to succeed.

The bad news is he is going to "succeed" HIS way. Meaning, he will be CEO/President and continue to hire guys like Fitterer. And guys like Fitterer will answer to Tepper, NOT a seasoned football man.

So, yes, he cares. But, he will always be hands on. That's why he bought the team. Because he wants to RUN an NFL franchise. Not just OWN the team. But RUN the team. Be President and CEO. He believes he can build a successful, winning NFL franchise. He truly believes that.

I am a native Charlottean. I bought season tickets the first day they went on sale for the Hornets in 1986. And I bought PSLs for the Panthers when they first became available in 1993. 

And because of David Tepper, I too, hope he just moves the team to another city. I'd rather not have a team than have a "Donald Sterling," or "Daniel Snyder," or "Ted Stepian," or "Robert Irsey," or "Bill Bidwell" run things.

7 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Keep in mind that the "value" of the NFL is team value. It's like any other investment, it's value isn't based on how much raw money it makes.

Carolina is a small market team. There are ample areas it can go and be more valuable than it is here. How about Toronto? Mexico City? London? 

I wouldn't place a bet on the franchise moving from CLT but I am not foolish enough to say it couldn't happen. Tepper was a ruthless businessman, there is no reason to think he wouldn't stay ruthless as an owner.

Many years ago I did an article for Charlotte Magazine on the NFL coming to Charlotte. This was like 1990. What I found was, when you take in Columbia, Greensboro, Raleigh/Durham as a television market (which, for NFL purposes, you can), the Charlotte market was Number 4. Due to the growth in the past 30 years, it's even larger now.

25 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I've been scolding this forum for years for constantly pissing and moaning about our GMs.  Hate to break it to you, but the mess we are in right now is not on Fitterer.  I think he's done a wonderful job of building a very competitive roster talent wise.

Tepper blew it with the Bryce Young pick.  Simple as that.  Dude is Jerry Jones 2.0

Jones was smart enough to realize, initially, he needed a football guy and he got Jimmy Johnson. And won three Super Bowls. That kind of success will NEVER happen with Tepper. Tepper wouldn't know a football guy if he crawled up his leg and bit him on his d***.

2 hours ago, AceBoogie said:

Don’t let the local Bryce detractors fool you. You see, they messed up when they hoisted Andy Dalton’s performance last week (in a loss) as the standard that Bryce needed to meet. 

Bryce not only met that standard, he exceeded it. They told you that Andy Dalton pushed the ball down field and implied Bryce could not. Hmm…

Dalton: 6.2 YPC last week in Seattle, Bryce actually had a slightly higher average at 6.4. He took what the defense gave him and even had points negated due to poor execution of his teammates. That’s not on him. 

Dalton’s passer rating last week: 88.4.           Bryce’s passer rating this week: 93.2

Instead ask yourself, why does the offense look like this. The answer is that we simply don’t have the playmakers that can create more explosive plays.

Bryce executed the offense just as well. Stop being miserable haters. It’s not too late, it’s fine. We have a good young QB and you don’t need to compare him to anyone. There will always be prettier fish in the sea.  

This will be a process. We have a QB, and even those of you who don’t believe in him it’s fine. He’ll still be here when you do. 

I've been watching and studying football for nearly 60 years. First, I ask: How can you be so sure? 

Here is my concern. I have not seen one thing in three games that made me say "Wow." Now, in evaluating someone, you don't have to say"Wow!" a lot. Just an occasional "Wow." When you are the first pick in the draft and the organization mortgaged to farm on you, there should some "Wows." Some plays where you say, "I get it." There haven't been. 

Bryce Young does not have elite accuracy. He does not have a strong arm. He doesn't seem to have elite speed nor quickness. All we've heard since January is how smart he is. But...I have yet to see a "Wow" play. Not one.

I agree. He has no weapons. But still...if he had the "It" factor, wouldn't we have seen a spark of it in the first three games?

4 minutes ago, frankw said:

Obviously no one here is in the room with our front office and we cannot confirm. But Tepper is on video saying he told Bryce Young about 8 months ago we wanted him. Once Tepper and Nicole showed up to Bryce's proday and embraced him all odds of him as the pick began shifting overwhelmingly to Bryce Young. If your boss and his wife love the kid who the hell are you to say no? It's obvious at this point based on the Matt Rhule hire that David Tepper is very hands on. He's in and on the phone in like every behind the scenes videos of our picks getting phone calls on draft night even the failed long snapper we drafted (lol). He made zero attempt to confer or even speak to anyone with years of NFL experience before hopping on his jet with Marty Hurney and swooning over Matt Rhule. Clearly he meddles.

Thanks

He should do the right thing and resign...tonight.

4 minutes ago, frankw said:

Absolutely all true. But I fear it boils down to something even worse. The Tepper's overruled and steered the pick toward Bryce Young.

I know there are those who have said this. Is this true?

1 hour ago, WhoKnows said:

Nope. Was Fitt saying pick someone else and Rhule forced his hand?

"Nope" what?  Rhule was up giving everyone high fives when Ekwonu fell to #6. The video made it very clear that Ekwonu was Rhule's guy. 

So, you're saying he wasn't? How do you know this? Did you talk to Rhule and Fitterer about the pick? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I read too much into Rhule giving everyone high fives and throwing a party in the War Room. 

Please, tell us what happened behind the scenes.

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

Those posts were wrong.

Explain.

14 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Not really. Mr. Scot and others won’t admit it but there were a ton of posts that off-season saying that Fitterer had taken control of the off-season because Rhule was on the hot seat. Tepper and Fitterer made Rhule hire vet coaches and he got fired 5 weeks in. From all the talk, that was Fitt’s draft.

Maybe the draft was but not that pick. Did you not see the video in the Panthers' War Room of Rhule when the pick was made?