1 hour ago, CRA said:

5.5? I mean, you take the under there.  I don’t see how the over/under gets set that high.

Right now they probably are dogs in all games but maybe 2.  Maybe.   

 

 You gotta remember that the odds are much tighter. Almost everyone is in the 7-10 range of wins and only the top, top teams will be above 10. Too many unknowns/regressions to the mean. We were horrific last year but even then we still win 2 games. The next worst was 4 wins.

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm still traumatized by how confident the organization and much of the fanbase was last year after we looked like the hottest of trash in the preseason. I was roundly mocked on here for expressing concern and condescendingly lectured about how real fans understand that preseason doesn't matter and we're gonna start kicking ass when we're actually game planning. I was like... okay, we'll see. Well, we saw.

Honestly, the usual suspects were in another atmosphere with there you don’t know football, preseason doesn’t matter at all BS. Those of us realists, mainly the ones who couldn’t believe we kept Fitterer around, could see how awful we looked and that it wasn’t because we didn’t want to show Atlanta and NO our real awesome offense.

3 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

Strengths of his that had a 100% chance at carrying over to his pro game. 

Was there literally anything Bryce did well in college that had a 100% chance at carrying over?

I don’t know what video people are watching because I saw more incompletions and what looked like less pressure for Young. There is no way you can watch those and think Young is in the same ballpark as CJ. Several throws that Young just cannot make with his arm, period. CJ’s pocket wasn’t as clean but he was throwing it deeper on average. It’s done and there are no take backs but those videos don’t encourage me much. Young has a ways to go to be in the solid QB club and might not ever get there.

1 hour ago, Panthering said:

 

This is a play that shows his arm strength being a huge issue. The ball floats so badly because he can’t just zip it to a wide open WR. Mingo should have stopped his route instead of the fish flop he did but man, that ball took forever to get there.

On 5/11/2024 at 11:17 PM, Manna said:

After the Green Bay game he promptly went on to put up 

30/50 206 yards, 0 TD 1 INT

sacked 9 times in two games 

0 points, 0 wins. 

4 YPA, ugh, so bad. I’m not a Young fan. It feels like 2nd half 2018 with him when teams figured out that Cam absolutely had zero arm strength with his shoulder. His YPA all year was damning and yes I know the talent around him was bad but his arm strength was so bad. 

49 minutes ago, rayzor said:

One of the things that we have heard is that Canales is going to be putting a heavy emphasis on the run and that has made more than a few frustrated because "it's a passing league" and "you don't draft a QB 1st overall to have a run heavy offense".

This isn't to argue either of those points, just pointing out something interesting i saw. I heard a comment yesterday someone made talking about how Canales' offense is going to look like what was seen in Seattle and what did Seattle do? Ran...a lot. This isn't something that i really noticed much at the time and, frankly, i'm kind of surprised by this. I mean they had Russ who was at the time a very good and very dangerous QB, and they still ran a lot (too much by Russ' opinion, which is why he wanted out). Yeah, Russ wasn't drafted first overall, or even in the first round. But looking at what he was able to do probably should have been.

I checked to see just how much they ran and, well...here it is. I looked at their rush vs pass attempts and where they were ranked within the league for each. 

For most of that time span i'd say they were pretty successful. after Russ got there they didn't have a losing season until 2021 and even then, that's been our ceiling for a while. During that whole time of their successes they were always in the bottom half in the league as far as passing attempts go. As a rushing team, i think their best seasons were when they were a rushing top heavy team. 

is this a strategy that most of us would choose? probably not, but it can work. it doesn't matter the reasoning for being rush heavy as long as they can make it work and i think with this OL and RB room i think we can. Will it be the most exciting style of play? i don't know. but if it can keep us in games and help us win, i'm all for it.

It’s going to be interesting to watch. It seems like with the Gs and RB in round 2 that we are focusing on the run more but we did go XL, DJohnson and Sanders as well. Canales was WR/QB coach at Seattle so he wasn’t really responsible for the running game but who knows.

1 hour ago, thennek said:

Until the Panthers start winning they are going to be ranked last on just about everything. The past 5-years has been that bad. Winning cures and hides a lot of problems. I mean the Teddy Bridgewater led 2020 team was probably the best Panthers team since the Cam era ended and that is really sad 

Don’t know why people get so butt hurt by these articles. We were a hair away from 0-17 and even with 2 narrow wins we still finished 2 games worse that every other team. People in here thought we were shoe ins for the division last year. We are going to have to prove we are not the bottom.

2 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

I don’t really care if all he says is “it is what it is” or “we picked a bad day to have a bad day” or “missed opportunities” as long as he wins.

Exactly, Coker was someone most people knew about. He was rated by the NFL as a 5th/6th round pick and I’m sure we scouted him. Acting like he’s an unknown UDFA is silly as he probably was among the first folks we talked to post draft. Canales knowing about Coker doesn’t make him a winning coach, nor does it make Coker a better prospect. If they are, they are, not because Nagy’s impressed that Canales knows Coker. Maybe we should be less impressed that Nagy doesn’t know Coker.

I’m way more optimistic than last year, mainly because Fittermagic is gone but I’m waiting until we win before we announce that we’re all good now. Feels like every year since the 1-7 finish in 2018 we have these same OMG this guy does it way differently than our scrubs before until we realize we hired or kept scrubs and they weren’t better.

12 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Say two guys buy a pair of 48" waist pants. One of them is already 45" waist. The other has a 32" waist. The guy with the 32" waist has more room to grow to fit into the really big pants.

Sorry man, that analogy is being misinterpreted. The ceiling in your example is 48”. The 32” guy does not have a higher ceiling, he’s just got way more to do than the other guy but 32” guy can’t get to 54”.

What you guys are trying to say is that Harrison, Odunze and Nabers are good enough right now to go top 4 to top 9 but their ceiling is pro-bowler because they’ve had multiple great college seasons and XL has a HOF ceiling because he’s only had one good year.

If XL had so much talent that we could say he has a higher ceiling than those 3, he wouldn’t have gone 33.

You are trying to cap those 3 as pro-bowlers. Those 3 are potentially HOFers. XL does not have HOF ceiling IMHO, but even if you want to say he does, it’s still not “higher” than the rest. I’m not saying the 3 will be, heck it’s more likely that at least one of them is a disappointment, but they absolutely have as high or higher ceiling than XL and a much higher floor.

On 5/8/2024 at 4:28 PM, rayzor said:

The guys who are the top 3 in the draft compared to XL have less room for growth. Especially Harrison. He's been groomed his whole life for this by a legend. He's naturally gifted and well trained for being the top. He'll get better, but he won't get much better than where he is right now, imo...not compared to XL.

I'm not saying that XL will be better than Harrison, just that Harrison's floor is a lot bigger than XLs because of the investment made in him from essentially birth. He had advantages that XL just didn't have. XL is just now getting into a position where he can receive solid coaching and opportunity he's never had before. He's naturally gifted an old supposedly very coachable and takes to coaching well. There's no telling how good he can be.

I think you guys are being way too homerish here. The top 3 guys do not have less upside room. Thats silly and Ill be honest that while yes, every WR in the first few rounds could be the best WR in this class, just because XL is raw does not mean the top 3 have a lower ceiling.

That would be like saying Chase, JJ, Lamb and others didn’t have high ceilings in the NFL because they were already more established.

I welcome the chance that XL becomes a stud but you guys are being way to much of a homer to say he’s got the highest ceiling in a supposedly amazing WR draft with 3 potential studs taken top 10.

1 hour ago, rayzor said:

i love it.

in a draft where you screw over the pats and the cowboys and rip off the rams, i think we did good.

i don't have a problem with the rams, btw. but it was nice not getting the bad end of a deal like that deal for once.

Slow your roll a little. Back in 2021, while many of us just wanted OL with almost every pick, there was a lot of cheering when we got TMJ right before the Saints.

We got all excited for Fittermagic and in the end, we got poo instead of a pro-bowl C many of us wanted and NO got a starting LB and had to double up in 2022 on WR and got Olave and Shaheed.

I don’t think we won the “screwing over” part of the draft then, and it worries me every time I see posts that mirror something we did in the Rhule, Hurney, Fitt and Reich periods.

Here’s to hoping for different results and yes, to all that think cautious hope is terrible, I do actually want Legette and every other move to succeed. The past 6 years has sucked balls.

1 hour ago, BrisbanePanther said:

Maybe I haven't kept up, but how do we know he set our to deceive in order to keep his stock high? That's a strong character-indicting accusation. Especially when it's not all that different than what others have done in the past. The only potentially eyebrow-raising is not being weighed again. Otherwise, he didn't do anything in the draft process that others haven't done and won't do in the future. In fact, the fact that he put all his eggs in the basket of his own pro day (which he didn't look great at) actively opposes the idea of setting out to deceive.

The pro day didn’t even matter. Fitterer was on record as saying he had Young number 1 the year prior to the draft as well. Complete Hurney 2.0 blinders on like Greg Little. While every other team used the combine to see how bad Little really was (he was a mid 1st prospect before any draft bowls/workouts), we basically ignored them. I think we had the same blinders on here.

9 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Totally relaxed.  Just not here to get into petty disputes with Captain Hindsight.  Start focusing on the Panthers and not the people who post perspectives and you will grasp the purpose of this board.  As for my reading comprehension--it didn't take me long to read you.

SMH. Completely missed again. You are getting way too petty when I didn’t even call you out. Sorry for recalling something you posted before. It’s amazing how worked up people get. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a better result.

Also, if I was keeping score, I would have thrown this one out LOL. 

Happened to be one post above the Erving/Elflein thread. I do have to say the search function feels way better these days. Took seconds to search for you and Erving.

Anyway, just chill man. I don’t really care and wasn’t trying to knock you at all. Just posting that your post brought me back to the optimism about OL pre-2021.

16 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

If you remember stuff like that and attribute it to me, yikes.  There has to be a toll free number for you to call.  I did not write this article.  I shared it.  Aside from that, thanks for the acknowledgement.  Nobody here is right all the time--the GMs miss most of the time--keeping score is pretty pointless.

You need to relax a wee bit man. I’m not going to apologize for having a really good photographic memory. I’ve stored a serious amount of crap like this:

Your topic was on Elflein and Erving’s fit after Fittermagic signed them.

No need for me to call a number because it was your thread and if you don’t remember, that’s on you.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension because I said that your post about Corbett and BC at Center reminded me of your topic on Erving and Elflein. I was sort of joking that that topic ended up poorly so I was worried about the Center spot more now. Sorry, not keeping score at all, that’s you reading into it however you want.

7 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I found an article that does a good job of explaining the position.  The position, in terms of athleticism and physicality, is less demanding than G or T.  So stepping into that role from G or T should not be a physical challenge, in general.

However, a C must know how to snap 2 ways (it is not that difficult, to be honest) and must read defenses and call schemes.  They are the vocal leader of the OL--so maybe Corbett and BC have always been  out of position.  When Bryce talked about Corbett talking a lot and asking questions during film sessions when he was injured, this is what he meant. 

I will bold the parts of this that apply to Corbett in a positive way.  It seems to me that the mental or cerebral challenges are the most important skill a center needs--if a person has played G, they (physically) will not be asked to do more--they will actually be asked to do less--physically.  Mentally and vocally, however, they must be leaders, quick decision makers, and students of the game---QUARTERBACKS, in other words.  

Frankly, after reading this, I see why they feel confident in Austin Corbett and Brady Christensen at Center.  Both should be better players there. 

The Center Position in Football: An In-Depth Guide

Posted by Throw Deep Publishing Staff on June 23, 2022

Centers are both the underdog of their offensive line counterparts – and the brains behind the entire operation of the offensive line unit. Centers often find their way to the position being a little less naturally gifted than the guards and tackles positioned to their left and right.

Usually a bit undersized, or a step slower, centers make up for this with a combination of high football IQ and gritty style of play that allows them to be the leader up front for the offense.

Coaches talk a lot about their great players being extensions of coaches on the field, and centers have to be exactly that. The offensive line’s duty is much less fixated than that of skill players such as the running backs and wide receivers. They have calls in place, but ones that vary completely on the look that the defense shows on each and every play, whether it is a run or pass play. This is where the center comes in – as it falls on him to be the lead communicator and direct traffic for each and every play.

The physical demands of the center position are plenty to speak of as well in their own right. Snapping the football, executing blocks in the trenches, and working up to linebackers are all part of the gig for the center position. Below will uncover even further the detailed demands of the position, and the crucial role the position plays in the success of an offense.

What does a Center do in Football?

As the team gets up to the line of scrimmage, it is the job of the center to direct his offensive line counterparts in the right direction to execute the play. He must be prepared to call out pass protections, identify the middle linebacker, and ensure the OL is on track in the run game to block the correct defenders.

He has no choice but to be an extremely vocal leader, taking responsibility to put the offense in successful spots. As offenses go faster and faster in today’s game of football, the center must be a quick decision maker, which comes with intense film work, and deep studies of opposing defenses heading into each game. All of this shows the high-level parts of the job the center possesses before the play even begins.

Moving to the physical elements of the job, the center is tasked with snapping the ball every play, getting the ball safely back to the quarterback, and immediately being prepared to go toe to toe against heavy interior defensive lineman. Whether it’s working a combination block up to linebacker level, occasionally pulling as a lead blocker, or picking up blitzes in pass protection, the center must be both athletic and strong enough to battle all game long against opposing defenses.

 

 

What are some other names for the Center Position?

There aren't a lot of other popular nicknames for the center position in football, but they are sometimes referred to as the quarterbacks of the offensive line, since they have to make a lot of calls and "direct traffic" so to speak with the other four men at the line of scrimmage.

What are the Skills and Body Type needed to play the Center in Football?

Skills

• Football IQ  (Both Christensen and Corbett seem to be very smart--Corbett seems to be a student of the game)
• Leadership  (Based on Young's comments, Corbett is a leader in the film room and that will transfer to the field)
• Agility  (Guards require more agility than centers)
• Strength (lower body strength is key here, but both have shorter arms--arm length is less of an issue for Centers than T or G)
• Run-Blocking (Guards are usually better run blockers than centers--it is where they make their money--so I do not expect either to be a liability as a run blocker)
• Pass-Blocking  (Although shorter and more compact, Corbett has the longer arms--33 1/8" vs. Christensen's 32 1/4"--physically, Corbett is best suited to play center considering his physical make up--see below)
• Shotgun and Under-Center Snapping:  (This can be problematic if the mental aspects overshadow the perfunctory execution of tasks, but snapping is something that takes reps.  It may involve different hand padding/tape/gloves than usual, but nobody is physically unable to snap a ball to the QB standing five yards behind.  Few can get open, throw a 50-yard dime, or kick a field goal--but everyone can snap a football.  The issue is, of course, perfecting the timing, accuracy, etc. That can be done with reps.  I have no doubt that Corbett and Christensen have been doing it for months now.)

Not all offensive lineman can be a center due to the mental demands of the position. Centers possess high-level football knowledge and leadership within the offensive line unit.

Body Type (General Estimate)
Height: 6’1-6’4
Weight: 310-325 Pounds
Build: Thick, Compact

Centers tend to be a bit undersized and less athletic compared to the offensive line. They often make up for this with more of a compact build combined with toughness and physicality.

MHS Epiphany:

A good example:  Ryan Kalil.  When we drafted him, we tried him (during his rookie year) at guard.  He sucked.  the reason?  If you ever talked to Kalil, you would realize that he is very intelligent.  Sarcastic, but intelligent.  He was not that big (maybe 285 to 290 when he played) and not tall (listed at 6'2" but he was 6'0"--maybe 6'1".  He struggled at guard because, physically, he was inferior.  At center, however, he could use his brain and leadership skills, so he became an all pro there.  He was a center--full stop.  Better athletes owned him as a guard, but as a Center, he was superior because he directed traffic effectively.

I hope this makes people understand the decision the Panthers made.  It makes theoretical sense, when you think about it.  Based on interviews and insights, I think Corbett and Christensen are smart--I hope that translates to football smarts.  Not sure about Mays.  Pretty sure Zavala does not have it.  I bet Bozeman did not have it.

Appreciate the write up but all I can remember is a similar lengthy post telling us about why we Elflein and Erving will be better than we think. I also remember something about a 1000 yards and TMJ. Anyway, good write up but now I’m worried about C and I already was worried about not getting a rookie to develop for next year. This is the last contract year for both Corbett and BC.

1 hour ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Imagine. Johnson on one side Coker the other, Theilen in the slot and Sanders at TE. You can double team the all. Johnson and Coker running precise routes.

All of the are dangerous because they are sure handed.

 

Could be a fun year.

So Legette is so bad than an UDFA is starting over him?

44 minutes ago, Tarheel119 said:

I honestly don’t look at these. Ones we’ve had the highest rankings on have turned out to be busts. Also, these talking heads don’t take the time to analyze the systems they’re going into. For once, it seemed like we had a plan as each have the same characteristics: tough, high IQ, football junkies, etc. Overall, I’m happy. 

Not to be a Debbie Downer but we say the same thing every year since our last playoff appearance. X is gone and we have a better plan and now Y is unrestrained and can do his thing while Z now fits the new scheme, etc.

We’ve been consistently ranked in the bottom half recently and that doesn’t usually take into account all the draft picks we’ve pissed away on bad trades. Those grades have been spot on for 6 years.

I have a lot less issue with this draft compared to say the idiocy of ignoring OL as a huge weakness in 2021 or trading up for Little, DJ Johnson and Corral, but I still feel like there will be a bunch of guys we’ll wonder why the heck we didn’t take them. Hopefully, these guys ball out and we get 3+ impact starters, not just starters like Ian Thomas.

15 hours ago, Bear Hands said:

I'm rooting for him because the WR still feels incomplete to me.  It's a combination of our slot guys not having either speed or the short area quickness to beat better NBs and break big plays, and also not really having resolution at flanker.

 

I was going to say something similar. I don’t need his Dad as extra motivation to make the 53. I hope he does just because we have some serious poo at the bottom of our WR group. Johnson, Thielin and Legette are the only guarantees. Mingo in his 2nd year is a lock as well but he can be beat out. The rest wouldn’t make other teams.

Honestly, as an UDFA, Carolina is my top choice almost regardless of position. Backup depth is needed everywhere and  there are a few starting spots that are manned by short term vets.

4 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

We got guys at the top of our board. We got the 2nd best running back, the fourth or fifth best receiver, and the 2nd best tight end. 
 

dan Morgan went BPA which is what you need to do when you’re working with what Morgan had and where the team is right now. 

I’m hopeful but I was just stating the facts on where our grades were. We were not consistently getting lauded for our draft. Almost every grading I read put us in the bottom 10. I’m also not convinced we went BPA, especially in round 3 and day 3, with the exception of Sanders.

7 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

The OL is the most important unit on the team.  Full Stop.  They do not depend on the QB like the QB depends on them.  Without the OL, the punter stays busy, the Defense stays tired, the RBs stay injured,  The WRs get open too late, and the QB busts. 

Having said that, we need a plan to keep them stocked and not have to fill Guard positions that average $35m (together) per season in free agency.  We need to build through the draft so that we have 2 players on first contracts starting on the OL at any given time.

 

 

 

I’m with you. We have to stock through the draft. Look at 2021. Many in here (including me) wanted us to draft a ton of OL because Hurney had damn near ignored it and the OL was now poo. We took BC and the Deonte, who was dreadful at the Senior Bowl (worst OL). Many in here wanted Sewell or Slater if Sewell was gone and also a C like Humphrey in the 2nd and I know I pounded the table for Tre Smith, especially when he was still there in the 6th. KC has two back to back SB wins in part due to that great OL draft getting 2 long term starters for a 2nd and 6th.

I think not getting a C in this draft was probably my biggest issue, especially the ones still available on day 3.

5 minutes ago, TD alt said:

Not really. Fans opinions are all over the place. And fans aren't going to highlight how wrong they were and  scream "bloody murder" when they get it wrong. Fans get it wrong a lot, and they also aren't privy to all of the dynamics between drafting players and budgetary constraints. They don't necessarily see the long term picture or the bigger picture. 

I'd also point out that just because something appears right today, that it may be totally wrong tomorrow. A certain amount of right and wrong when it comes to personnel doesn't reveal itself until time has passed.

Lastly, you can't get everyone you want, and no one is going to be right all the time, execs, so-called experts, or fans.

He’s right in our recent past. It’s not difficult to find the huddle draft opinions, especially in the Fitterer era. The Panthers drafting was so bad that even with huddle mistakes, the consensus in hear was way better than Fitterer.

1 hour ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

If you're going to bring up the Burns trade you have to include the players we were able to sign with the money we saved by trading Burns.  We got three positions of need with the money we saved by trading him. 

SMH. Do you guys get that I was just trying to state that it’s fair for analysts to grade us on the players we actually selected and that’s it. You guys were getting so bent out of shape that our grades weren’t reflecting our new 2025 pick so I said I think it’s fair because then you’d have to consider everything like Burns. This circle jerk is not worth the energy.

Just now, TD alt said:

Burns was another issue. 

But 39 was due to trading him. I’m saying you can’t just count the 2025 2nd in the grade without also counting losing Burns. I think grading the draft with the guys we actually took this year is fair. People were complaining that our grades ignore the 2025 second and ignoring how we got 39.

4 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Actually pretty shocked we go decent grades for these picks because there were other high profile names still on the board and would have thought we'd get lambasted for our picks.

Overall, we really didn’t get decent grades. In everything I looked at C or C- were the lowest grades given out. Seemed like Atlanta was universally the bottom grade and we were usually tied with several teams in the tier above that. I’d say we were universally bottom 10.