WhoKnows

We’ve started the last 2 seasons 1-13. You’d think with so many rookies assumed to be getting significant playing time the past couple of years that we would get them as many snaps as possible. A guy like Moton doesn’t need the snaps but Young did. Young didn’t have a 200+ yard game with no INTs until week 16 in 2023 and week 12 in 2024. The young guys need reps. 1-13 isn’t worth keeping our offense a secret until we start the season. I don’t recall a single good reason for us to act like we were an experienced playoff team the past two years.

Probably one of the biggest reasons the hopium in here goes bad so quickly. The optimists forget that we need the young guys to step up just to have a better starting lineup. Then you throw in our lack of quality depth in with some injuries and you get the 2-5 win Panthers. Brown hurt for the year and we are a historically bad defense. We have so many vulnerable spots where 1 or 2 injuries would turn that spot from OK to terrible. Injuries happen and Fitterer suck so bad that he not only didn’t get quality starters, he shredded our depth.

Far apart means expensive, not a chance. I didn’t like Horn’s contract because I don’t think he’s proven to be the top CB salary wise (at the time) and even in his 2 healthy years he still missed 6 games. That said, Horn at least is coming off his most healthy season and is 25 whereas Jaire has missed 10 games in each of the past two years and is 28.

Yep. No thanks unless he’s crazy cheap. Based on the last 4 years, even if you make the crazy assumption that they were both healthy on the exact same weeks, they could have only played together 29 out of 68 games. Amazingly enough, Jaire is more fragile now. Again, only way I’d want him is if he wants to give the team a home town discount for 1-2 years to prove he can stay healthy and get another deal like Gilmore.

All the Florida fans I know thought he was terrible. When he went 4th, it was pretty shocking. When healthy he’s a solid fantasy QB, not an NFL one. Some might point to his starting record as 8-7, but if you dig in a little bit it’s almost comical: When Richardson has 12 or less passes (i.e. he got hurt in game): Colts 4-0 (2 of 4 wins were playoff teams) When Richardson plays the game (19 to 38 passes): Colts 4-7 (0 of 4 wins were playoff teams)

Lol. Now you make me defend DG. We had the best IOL in the league under DG and Oher looked solid until he got that bad concussion. DG drafted Moton and Daryl Williams as well. The OL fell apart under Hurney 2.0 and Fitterer. DG also drafted Star and Short. Sorry, but that was all in 5 drafts so let’s not make stuff up about not trying to improve hog mollies. Gettleman did a ton wrong and took the wrong guys, but he and Rivera had a deep and talented team and it got blown up really quickly. Also, I love Cam but he wasn’t the best QB in the league. He had the best year in 2015 but he wasn’t Brady. I think Dan has had a solid offseason, way better than last year but I’m not putting on rose colored glasses until we actually have a 10 win season. Again, Dave and Ron had 3 10+ wins seasons out of 5.

Right, basically what I said. Dude is crowning Dan after a 5-12 season and 1 draft, which as of right now, wasn’t good. I wasn’t judging Morgan at all. People read what they want to read like that I loved Gettleman and think he was awesome. Nope. All I said is that it’s way too freaking early to act like Morgan is amazing. I used the Gettleman/Rivera record just like I mentioned that Rhule almost beat both #1 seeds in this first year. Morgan/Canales’ team would need to win 11 a year to get to a similar record as Gettleman/Rivera’s first 5. If you are going to given Morgan a pass for bad talent, we were 15-33 the 3 years prior to Gettleman/Rivera. Again, I think all of us want this team to win again but maybe I’m a little jaded in thinking that I enjoyed 2013-2017 a helluva a lot more than 2018-2024 and I’m not a fan of smoke getting blown up my ass like we have already back.

SMH. We have one 5-12 season and no playoffs under our belt. Gettleman was here for 5 off-seasons with Rivera. The team went to the playoffs 4 of 5 years, were in a SB and had a 51-28 record. Do I think DG was amazing? No, he made a ton of mistakes but acting like Morgan is amazing is ridiculous, even for your rose colored glasses. It’s hard to really praise Gettleman but we didn’t have a single season as bad as last year under him. One 5-12 season is not a king maker. Let’s get 1 winning record before declaring the GOAT GM. I’d love nothing better to call Dan Morgan the greatest GM ever but he basically needs 4 straight 11 win seasons to match the 51 wins in 5 years under Gettleman and Ron.

Lol man. You are a bit premature here. First, have we ever really had a great front office? Second, all we know so far is a pretty poor 2024 draft base on the results and a 5 win season. I don’t care about the close wins. Rhule almost beat both the #1 playoff seeds in his first year and had us talking playoff seeds after week 4 in his second year. I like Dan’s second draft way better but how about we get a winning season before we crown Dan as some amazing GM? We did see a lot of Fitterer in the 2024 draft and his being the right hand man for maybe the worst GM in history was why many of us wanted a fresh start. Dan’s Miami and Panther career means nothing if the team doesn’t improve and become a playoff team. Also, take a bit of a chill pill. No one is actively rooting against him now. He’s the GM now so we want to see him have the best drafts in NFL history and win 3 SBs in a row. Doesn’t matter anymore if we didn’t want Scott Jr. as the GM. Just can’t crown a guy after 5-12 yet. Lots of people who thought Fitterer was good too.

lol. I’m hoping Bryce becomes Tom Brady and Johnathan Brooks becomes Barry Sanders. I’m feeling 4000-30TD+ Teddy B vibes or 1000-8TD+ TMJ projections. Hoping XL and TMac turn into a fringe HOFer and a first ballot HOFer is crazy talk. I don’t know if it’s the haven’t had a winning season since 2017 or never having back to back winning seasons, but this place is comical when it comes to the overrating of our players.

To be fair, the UDFAs being discussed at the start are the top UDFAs who get the largest guaranteed numbers. A quick google found an article from 2016 saying that 20% of the 500+ UDFAs made the week 1 roster. 2-3 per team. The top UDFAs draws are thinking mainly about team fits to make the roster where salaries dwarf the $250k. The non-top UDFAs are happy to chase the money and just want a shot, but those guys weren’t part of the original discussion about the highest guarantees being paid out.

And why did we offer him the most money? Because our WRs sucked and he and his agent knew it. Agents aren’t going to say no, but making the team as a UDFA isn’t akin to lottery odds as you said and he and his agent got $1.8M in OTAs. That was their goal. $225k is peanuts compared to Coker’s likely lifelong Panthers income and if he went to a team with a stocked WR corps for $250k, he would have screwed up. I don’t know why this is even up for debate. His agent got him $1.8M over 2 years by OTAs because it was the easiest roster for a good UDFA WR to make. All things equal, take the extra $20k if offered but our situation is absolutely why he signed here not an extra $20-40k. Having an easy road to $1.8M (and more) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new Camry.

Lol, that is so wrong. “The money” as you said is under $100k difference. Coker’s agent got him a $1.8M extension during OTAs. Below’s a quote I found. It’s dark, but it says 20%, not exactly lottery odds. Not all last the whole year but each team is still adding a couple/few every year. For “good” UDFAs, they will take the money but they are 100% going to teams where they think they can make the roster. Making the roster is life changing money. In 2016, 117 of 590 undrafted free agents (19.8 percent) made a Week 1 roster or injured reserve, and another 125 (21.2 percent) made a practice squad, according to the NFL Players Association.

Seriously? You actually think Coker signed with us for the money? Dude made the team easily and got a 2 year deal that dwarfed the UDFA money. Sorry, but you are smoking crack if you think that Coker and his agent weren’t looking at the Panthers are the easiest team to make the 53. It was and he got a two year deal on May 10th. That’s how easy it was for him to make the 53, he got a contract during OTAs.

It won’t. The top UDFAs aren’t caring about the extra $20k or $40k that Tepper is giving out when selecting the right team and making the team gets you $800k for year 1 and maybe even more year 2+.

Agreed. I’m not sure why we think UDFAs are 100% about the money and us throwing money means we got the best ones. Sure, all things equal, get what you can get, an agent/player are looking to stick with a team. I got into a back and forth with someone in here about this when we signed UDFAs after the draft and ended the discussion with the below. Just look at Coker last year, do you really think he signed with the Panthers for the most money and not because our WRs sucked? He got a $25k bonus and $225k guaranteed. Thats nice and all but what did Coker get by being able to make the team and stick for year 2+? He got $795k for 2024 and $960k for 2025. The UDFA guarantees are nice but the top UDFA players are absolutely 100% trying to find the best team fit. Again, talking about the guys who have the ability to make the 53, not guys who are jumping at any offer they can get. Making the team as a UDFA gets you 4-5x the initial money.

No, some of us will see Humphrey 1 and Frazier 2. We know about Frazier but don’t forget that when C was a huge hole without Kalil, we took TMJ right before Humphrey. Lots of us in here wanted OL, OL and more OL that draft but we liked Erving and Elflein better. Could have had Slater, Humphrey, Smith, Moton and even BC anchoring the OL for years. Could have had Garrett Wilson and $150M for DL as well. It’s truly groundbreaking how bad that Fitterer dude was.

Especially since you had your pick of Williams, Daniels and Maye. Just like Stroud before, we’d probably be OK with the trade up had we picked Stroud instead. Just because the Bears may mess up some picks doesn’t mean the trade is better. They could have take Jalen Carter instead of the T who hasn’t been great.

We haven’t had more than 7 wins in 7 full seasons. Of course even us “tankers” would have been happy with the playoffs and all of us said that in 2022 until Mike Evans beat us. Our problem is that we didn’t get the picks with trades that most bottom teams try to do so that they don’t get pick 9 and have to trade away the farm. A team like Houston desperately needed a QB and since they had pick 2, it cost the nothing extra to get Stroud which meant they could also trade up and get Will Anderson. That resulted in two playoff appearances in two years, two more than we’ve had in 7 years. We had to give away marquee picks and lose one of our best players because we almost got to the playoffs which launched our culture with 7 wins and 27 losses the past two years.

I’m not missing anything. I agree completely. I’ve given examples where 1 extra win cost us Herbert over Brown and 3 1sts from SF over Horn. Those meaningless wins didn’t improve our culture but they sure impacted our talent. Winning culture comes from actually winning and good coaching. Having the best players actually on our team helps.

It really doesn’t. Go look at the Lions draft history from 2021-2023. They turned around their team from joke to SB contender by picking 6 pro bowl players in 3 drafts. Look at the 2020-2023 Houston drafts. Started with 2 pro bowlers in 2020/2021 as a base and then added Stingley, Stroud and Will Anderson in the last two drafts along with a bunch more starters and depth. Houston had a terrible massage parlor culture and a couple greats drafts getting 5 stud players turned them into a winning culture. This slow burn win a little more and more works far less than just drafting well and in the cases above tanking a bit (trade Tunsil, Watson, Stafford, etc. and not after losing value) actually helped. There aren’t many, if any cases of bad teams trading up and being great. KC doesn’t count as Alex Smith had them in the playoffs every year.

There in lies the rub. We don’t have a winning culture yet because we haven’t had a winning season since 2017 (8 years away now) and it’s weird how that’s not understood. I hate to say it, but Fitterer fuged U.S. hard by trying to win with a no talent team and trading away the house. Last year’s team, QB and HC all showed promise. The problem is that talent wise we are still miles from the top teams. Before people interject with the we played KC and Philly tough, the Matt Rhule and Bridgewater led meh team of 2020 lost to both 1 seed teams by the same one score margin and we had chances to win both of those games. That’s the NFL, bad teams often surprise the top teams. The KC team Rhule almost beat was far better than the 2024 Chiefs. Anyway, I’m legitimately worried that we are absolutely going to get stuck in that 7-10 to 10-7 range where we can win our crap division but we don’t have the talent to do anything else and we can easily have an bad injury year and our depth gets us an under .500 finish. Someone mentioned Detroit and until we have some of their drafts, like Gibbs, LaPorta, Branch and Campbell in 2023, we are going to be middle of the road for a while. Let’s hope the 2025 draft class is it.

Adios and good night, done talking about what we should have done but it’s weird when anti-tankers try and get back on the high horse.

Yes. Fitt said he liked Young for two years. He hitched his wagon to him. Reich and Young were going 2-15, nothing I said we should get would have saved him. A new coach plus Tepper (and Morgan) would have wanted the draft assets we kept or got to be used by a better GM/Coach. SMH, you need to read my post and your own again. You said: “So we should have sold off all of our talent and what?” I was being sarcastic that they still were in the roster because the guys you are saying we shouldn’t have sold off got sold off anyway but instead of getting full value, we got scraps. We had an opportunity to sell at the highs and instead we let the stocks lose 50-75% and then sold them. Because we didn’t tank in 2022 when the Rams basically handed the idea to us, we either set the team back several years to where we won’t do anything and will be back at the drawing board or kept enough talent off the team that we may make the playoffs but we still won’t be a top team like an extra handful of 1st rounders could have gotten us.

It was nothing. It was a nice run in an easy schedule that did nothing but lose us DJ Moore and a lot more. We were 2-15 in 2023. Based on your logic, that winning finish should have been a launching point. For as much as you want to say we shouldn’t have taken a risk, you still can’t admit that the plans we tankers laid out were proven correct. There’s no revisionist history. We said we should have traded Burns to the Rams. We said we should have sold off anything not bolted down like Brown and Horn and even Icky because they were in the 5 year plan. There is no disconnect, we tried to keep winning and draft a rookie QB and we lost about 4 1st round picks of value that could have been given to the guys you think might be the right crew.