Loyalty4Life

If I'm Dan Morgan I stick with the plan because one step back doesn't erase all the progress that Bryce made last season. That was a total team loss and Bryce shoulders most of the blame because he's the QB and people are emotional. The Huddle would blame a one legged man for losing a kicking contest. Fans don't want to build a team. They want one already built and winning from the jump. After the crime scene of Bryce's first year Tepper cleaned house and got his offensive coach who has a history of building QB's. Dave had the nuts to bench a #1 overall QB in order to help him. I agreed at the time that if the first 2 games of last year were what Bryce is, then drafting him will go down as the worst in NFL history. Everyone is doing exactly what they did last year when Bryce was benched. Freak out. Calls to cut him. Sky is falling. But when Bryce started playing better, and some games at a very high level, people started chopping up that plateful of crow. Then the whole team craps the bed in the first game of the year and all those same people double down. Dave and the coaching staff had a plan to reset him and bring him back. They did. He not only played better but played a lot better. I've always said that as long as Bryce is making progress and getting better, you don't pull the plug. Think of it like a stock. It's not going up in a straight line. Some of ya'll bring shame to our motto. Dan, Bryce and the rest of the team need to do what they've been doing all of last year. Building, getting better. If I was Dan, I'd keep pounding.

Why do you keep lying about this? You keep repeating this for some insane reason when it's so easy to prove it's not true. I listed games off the top of the head where he played well when you said this in another thread. Week 16 against the Cards 36-30 OT win. Threw 3 TD's Week 12 against KC 30-27 loss but Bryce went 24 of 35 for 263 yrds. It was Mahomes magic that got us. Week 10 against the Bucs 298 yards in a close game with a passing TD and a running TD. We even had those flashes of what he could be in 2023 against the Packers, the 95-yard game winning drive vs the Falcons, or how he outplayed CJ Shroud with the win over the Texans.

I read the entire article. Seam routes are great against a single high safety because they have to make a decision. They can be high risk, high reward play but they are a staple in nearly every NFL game. Just because they are tight windows doesn't make them hospital balls. The biggest takeaway from that whole article was this is football. You're going to get hit. You can get lit up on any play. QB tries the best he can to judge the distance but the structure of the play is going to get you hit and that safety can run down hill. Here is one to Sanders, from the same game, who slows down slightly and puts himself in a better position to make the catch without getting lit up. Hunter ran full tilt and jumped. No fear running that route which is what Grok recommends.

Narratives change real fast because of how fast information travels these days and the need to generate clicks. People said the Panthers were a great place for him to land but just because it was said doesn't make it true. Was that true? Did we have an All-star staff? Did we have a good front office? Did we surround him with talent? Could the defense carry the load? You have to squirt really hard to think it was just a bad rookie QB stinking it up all by his lonesome. Saying the worst football teams have bad QB's is just low handing fruit. It's the easiest thing to grab onto. It could also be teams that have a bad coaching staff or no talent to surrounding the QB or a horrible front office. It can also be a horrible QB. To this day I think that T-Law going to the Jags might have ruined his career because of Urban Meyer. I don't agree at all that Bryce's only good game of his entire career was against the Falcons. Week 16 against the Cards (which is one of those last 3 games we mentioned) 36-30 OT win. Threw 3 TD's Week 12 against KC 30-27 loss but Bryce went 24 of 35 for 263 yrds. It was Mahomes magic that got us. Week 10 against the Bucs 298 yards in a close game with a passing TD and a running TD. We even had those flashes of what he could be in 2023 against the Packers, the 95-yard game winning drive vs the Falcons, or how he outplayed CJ Shroud with the win over the Texans. Especially in this respect you're not being truthful.

What it feels like is a horrible source reality. What a person sees is a horrible source for reality. Stats can be easily misunderstood because because they are interpretive and contextual. Very large data sets with dozens more more connected variables are difficult to deal with and understand correctly. Throw in confirmation bias, abstraction, emotions and the way human brains are wired make it really easy to roll with eye tests and intuition. The negativity for Bryce was really high and most were ready to trade that asset for peanuts until the second half of last year when he began to play much, much better. Hope sprang eternal. The Saints game last year. Going toe to toe and almost beating the two teams who went to the Superbowl last year. Beating the Falcons when the Falcons had everything to play for. Haters started adjusting their tune. Fan and media starting saying it looks like Carolina has found their franchise QB. The real answer was and is, maybe. If he plays great on Sunday the anti-Bryce crowd will find other excuses or say it's only one game. If he plays horrible, it'll be more of the "I told you so. I knew it before he was drafted." (which is beyond stupid since there there is not an actual way to know if a player will be successful in the NFL or not.) I'll leave with a simple example. Of the initial list of incompletions due to WR error, Jarod Goff has 0. He was 31 for 39 at an almost 80% completion percentage. His WR's much has balled out. Except when you add the facts that only 11 of those passes were to WRs. 14 were to RB's and 6 to the TE. Gibbs has 10 of those receptions and he's elite so that explains why we shouldn't put much stock into this stat. But then we see that Gibbs also set an NFL record with the least number of yards (31) for any player with at least 10 receptions in a game. Fun stuff! Oh yeah. From week 1 how many people had Justin Fields and Daniel Jones playing at elite levels?

Using a stat saying 75% of his passes are at or behind the line of scrimmage. Last year from week 8 to 18, 15% of his passes were over 20 yards. That was 6th in the NFL. His completion rate was 54% on deep throws which was 2nd in the NFL. Help me make that make sense in regards to what you are saying? Fo real.

Agreed. Setting protections is one of the more difficult things for an NFL QB to learn but I did see a lot of improvement over the past year. It's still an issue but getting better. Reich hung him out to dry in that aspect and almost got him killed. Once Canales gave him a hot read or option for blitzes and pressure he did much better. The more experience he gets the better he'll get. That's also another good reason to keep a strong oline. Mitigates that a little bit.

See, this is what I'm talking about. The guy was the first pick in the NFL draft, had a horrible 1st year with little quality coaching, surrounding talent or a defense to lean on. He plays probably the worst football I've seen from a QB in his first two games last year and gets benched. Yet, he mentally never folded. Kept pounding. Became the starter again and played football at a high level. The stats over his last 3 games were very good with some being the very top elite level in the NFL such as 10 TD's to 0 interceptions. The Falcons game was a win and in the playoffs game for the Falcons and was probably Bryce's best game. In almost all of our wins he lead game winning drives. That is clutch. That is some of the strongest mental fortitude a person can have so I really don't know what you're basing this on.

And I would argue with little of that. He does have bad footwork and while I don't think he has trouble reading defenses, per se, I do think he makes decisions based off of key indicators and can get easily fooled. When out of structure he adlibs well. When in structure he relies too much on what the play and concept are designed to do. I do think that he processes things very quickly but that may be somewhat of an achilles heel as he can be baited which we've seen multiple times. Jessie Bates probably shows up in his nightmares. I don't see the staying on schedule as much of a Bryce issue as I do a coaching and play calling issue. He's had some of his best drives in the hurry up when it's less about scheme and more about talent. Some of his best games have been when he's just slinging it.

Did you just say analytics are horse poo and then give me some analytics?

Fine. It's his 3rd season which makes his progress and mental fortitude even more impressive after overcoming one of the worst situations to be in starting your NFL career. If the hard takes on Bryce were not filled with so much hyperbole, assumptions and outright lies it wouldn't annoy me so much. Bryce can't throw downfield. He threw it fine downfield to Legette on that deep shot he dropped last year. He threw it fine downfield to T-Mac sunday who proceeded to drop the pass. Bryce is too small. Boy takes a beating before we invested in the offensive line and so far he'd held up physically with no issues. Bryce is too short. The majority of his throws are over the middle which would be the most difficult routes for a shorter QB to see. He doesn't get balls batted down more than any taller QB's. Bryce is too slow. Last year he ran for 6 TD's and 249 yards. That ability is a real weapon. Most of the takes around here are of the "Omergaud, he suks" variety with little actual insight. If a guy is able to play and win multiple NFL games he has to have some talent and ability and if a person continues to say there is no redeeming qualities and you can't tell me what he is good at as well as what he's bad at, then you're not being honest, realistic or genuine. You're being a fool.

Nope. I like Tepper because he really does want to win. Badly. I like that he's rich and is more than willing to spend money to improve the team. I like that he didn't fire anyone when he first bought the team because he wanted to sit back and learn. I like how much he's invested and uses analytics. I like the Morgan hire. I like the Tillis hire. I like the Canales hire in which he used a private firm (for the first time) for the selection and vetting process in hiring him. I think that he gives his coaches all the rope they want but if they hang themselves he's not waiting around to watch. Tepper and Jed York, owner of the 49ers, are great comparisons. Both struggled greatly until they found the right coach/GM combo to lead the team. I hate that he was so front and center giving fans and media way too much access and photo ops. That was a huge PR mistake, not really a x's and o's error. I hate with so much passion that he hired Matt Rhule and gave him a huge 7 year contract and complete control of the team. I hate that he ok'd overpaying for Teddy 2 Gloves. I hate that he ok'd the trade for Sam Darnold. I hate that he hired Frank . I hate that paying for the best coaching staff that money could buy didn't amount to anything. I hate that he relented and ok'd Baker Mayfield who Rhule made look like complete trash in less than one game only to have Baker go to the Bucs and look great. I hate that he took so much advice from Ernie Accorsi, which, fun fact is where all the Bryce point guard stuff came from. I don't think he forced us to take Bryce but if he did I don't care as Bryce was the top rated QB in that draft by the vast majority of fans, media and other teams. Bryce was the top QB on the Texans draft card. I love Stroud and had him just ahead of Bryce as 1A and 1B. There were pro and cons for both and no really knew if either one would be successful but everyone agreed both were top prospects. Since they were both so close in potential it's more luck which one we ended up with. Bryce could just as easily been a Texan therefore it only matters in hindsight which one was the "right" choice and despite how great a rookie year Shroud had the jury is still out on both.

What? Am I mistaken that his rookie year included a horrible coaching staff and support players. It's wasn't just Bryce. I won't judge any player from that yeah. It's impossible to make an accurate assessment on any player under those conditions. It's that simple. You break down each play and look at each player, what the expectation was, what happened during the play and what circumstances affected every player and position. There a reason why the narrative was he could be the biggest NFL bust in history. Then after his benching he started to show remarkable improvement. Thus all the talk from fans and media about how dramatic of a turnaround it was and that Carolina no longer had a QB problem. First game this year the whole team stunk it up. Why? Plenty of blame to go around including Bryce. Improvements do not come it a nice straight line angling up. I think Sunday was a step back for the whole team. Still plenty of time to see if it was a bad outing to grow from or another indicator of issues that can't be overcome.

I'm still a big Bryce supporter. I don't look much at his rookie year as that only deepened the hole he has to climb out of. I see this past game as the 1st of his 2nd year. Judge him based off of his play after his benching. No argument that is play those first two games last year were about as bad as it gets. No question. This is the start of year 2 for Canales and he was out coaches against the Jags but I like his process and how he goes about things. I like that he, Morgan and Tillis seem like a unit and on the same path. Saying we never should have drafted him based on his height and weight is a valid opinion but he was a universal top pick in the draft and elite talent coming out. I have seen little evidence those are still issues. He is physical enough to take some monster hits and I don't see a limit to his passing due to his height. The lack of arm strength is a tired argument. He has the physical ability to make all the necessary NFL throws. Of course he doesn't have the cannon Cam did coming out but he also doesn't have Cams accuracy and throwing with touch issues. They are different players and Bryce has a ton of work to do just to be in Cams shadow. Bryce IS part of the problem but he isn't the problem. His play the last half of the season last year was impressive and showed a ton of growth and improvement. Outside of Horn, Nola and Chuba the whole team and staff looked severely off and not ready. If Dave calls a great game and other players play average NFL level football and Bryce still plays like this that is when we'll actually have as big an issue at QB as the haters believe. The issues are team wide and it's one game. Also, I like Tepper.

I thought Canales admitted that T-mac ran the wrong route and Bryce wasn't throwing it away but trying to throw to the back pylon. Agree Bryce has to see that safety. XL could have bailed him out but sloppy route and not attacking the ball didn't give him a chance. Also, with how big and strong he is he seems to get pushed around. I don't care about garbage time int or 4th down prayers.

No doubt Canales had a horrible day but the only personality that really works in the NFL long term is winning and progress. Mostly winning.

The stupidity is making that call on day 1.

A lot of our current offensive system is spreading guys out, running 4 or 5 wide and letting Bryce find the best matchups presnap. Hunter is elite at settling in a zone and running underneath routes. I see both as good fits for our scheme. Hunter was originally signed at 1 mil for the year. Now, it's 2 mil. Absolutely nothing unusual with the whole process especially since from the start we knew he was only going to play for us. If we'd kept AT, it was up to Hunter if being on the practice squad was inline with his playing goals this year. When we traded AT that gives Hunter the chance he wanted. None of this stuff is done on a whim.

We are 19th in dead money which is good for NFL standards. Part of doing business. 49ers, Saints and Eagles are tops with 80 to 100 million so I'm not sure how much of sign that is. If cutting Renfrow while we dealt AT and setting the roster in general cost us a million bucks is the biggest financial mistake we make I'm in all day long. Renfrow's agent was just doing good business for his client. For what it's worth I would not have cut him either but I'm not watching the bottom of the roster in practice every day or looking at special teams very closely. If you're cancelling the season over losing 37 year old WR, then you should stop watching football.

Hunter was always primed to be cut because he was not subject to waiver wire pickups. Another team could not claim him. Typical NFL move to not expose a young player with potential to waivers. This was always likely. We are no longer dependant on a 37 year old ageing vet WR who wanted out for this team to succeed. We are past that. Dan did play hardball. A 4th and 5th draft pick and we didn't take on any of his salary. What world is that not a steal? Cokers injury sucks as I do think he is going to be really good. Black cat curse is a bunch of BS.

Kicker with one leg fired after going 0 for 28 on field goals. Panthers are cursed.

Cool. Another Bryce can't throw deep derailment. Pushing the ball down field is not an issue. Throw that on the trash heap with all the other things Bryce has already proven wrong. https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/panthers/2025/01/09/panthers-qb-bryce-young-2024-season-stats/77587270007/

All this hysteria over arthritis. That might be the most huddle thing ever.

I've always said this from the start. Tepper has made 2 huge mistakes. Rhule and Reich. Im open to adding Fitt as well. Trusting his football people can be damning when you choose the wrong people.

Which one of those firings did you disagree with?