Darknight

4 minutes ago, trueblade said:

The first time Rhule didn't have a track record. Tepper was willing to let Rhule make the calls, and woudl evaluate him on the results. Even as late as the draft, Tepper was still willing to sit back and let Rhule make his decisions at QB. Rhule then passed on Jones and Fields. Tepper reportedly wanted Fields, who has been up and down, but still, even as a rookie, looks better than Darnold.

At the halfway point of the season, it's clear to everyone that Rhule made the wrong decisions at QB. Tepper could of basically said "I let you try it your way, and it didn't work out. Now we're gonna try it my way."

I don't think this happened this way but in the small chance that it did, I do no want David Tepper as an owner.

3 minutes ago, Fox007 said:

I do think it was a Tepper move personally. Everyone including Cam has said Rhule reached out first but was that the political play? I don't know really its nothing but assumptions from everyone including me but the word from everyone is that it was Rhule. Seems to me that Rhule was ready to go with PJ until next year.

I will go this far in saying that Tepper mood played a part in making a change in QB but I personally believe that change was going to happen regardless but I don't think Tepper explicitly told him to sign Cam or else.

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Matt Rhule has been a non-stop shitshow at the QB position.  Look at all the money he has piled up on slop.  No reasonable owner would just keep letting Rhule cut checks and doing what he wants at QB at this point.   

The boos were reigning down in BOA America in the first half of our last home game.  We still had another half of a season to go.  Matt Rhule was openly being talked to like a chump.  Tepper had enough.  Tepper simply was going to at least fix the shitshow that was morphing.    At least tempoarily.  And it worked and will work. 

 

 

I agree that the QB situation has been a poo show. I have said that they should have kept Cam but I understand why they didn't. Cam was part of the old regime. I believed Rhule wanted to start fresh and rebuild. He has no ties to Cam. I get why they got rid of him but I don't agree on how that was handled.

I disagree that Tepper made Rhule sign Cam. There is no proof that I can see that Tepper did this. It is all fan fiction at this point. If that's the case, how come Tepper didn't step in the first time when Rhule released Cam?

And to possibly fire a coach or take away his power from adding talent to the roster just because he messed up on the QB position but basically hit on the defense is crazy to me.

1 minute ago, Fox007 said:

Yea they were. If Watson doesn't have a weird fetish he is likely a Panther. Been over this a million times yes Watson has Carolina as a place he'd go.

Teddy was a whiff and they moved on. Its been two years and we got Cam back already they clearly don't sit on mistakes for long which is nothing but a great thing.

A lot of people just glance over this fact. Rhule has proven this time and time again. That is why I believe this was a Rhule move and Tepper didn't force him to do anything.

3 minutes ago, 4Corners said:

Hey Duke fan - see the news about your star basketball player and Coach K’s delinquent grandson? 

Unfortunately yes.

His grandson don't get any playing time. It's Banchero that I'm worried about. He got charged with aiding and abetting DWI.

2 minutes ago, TF330 said:

I would say now we're headed in the right direction but do you think anyone would have been thrilled if we had lost to arizona and not gotten cam? we would end up 7-10 probably. I didn't say he would be fired but yeah two losing seasons and wasting a top tier defense and completely whiffing at the QB position 2 times is good enough to warrant a hot seat after two years I believe, especially when you're making that kind of money

I wouldn't be thrilled if we lost to Arizona period. All I know is that a rebuild doesn't happen over night. I know I just said that and they completely retooled this defense in a years time. Faster than I thought they would have. I would hope they would address the offense this season which I think they will.

I'm looking for improvement. We have improved from season 1 to season 2. Once we stop improving is when he should be on the hot seat.

16 minutes ago, TF330 said:

I think we're giving him too much credit. He's not doing it to admit he's wrong, he's doing it to keep his job. 

 

I know Tepper committed a ton of money to Rhule but another losing season, especially with a top 3 defense in the NFL? If we had rolled with PJ and Darnold and Rhule was somehow kept, then next season would have been the hottest of seats. 

 

Rhule is smart enough to know to get to the playoffs now and cool the seat a bit while not wasting potentially the best defense we've had in decades

We are in a 2nd season of a rebuild and the coach is on the hot seat because of back to back losing seasons? We already matched our win total from last year with a chance to win more. I would say that this team is headed into the right direction.

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think Tepper told Rhule Cam would be the QB to finish the season.  That’s what happened.  

all this talk by Rhule that Tepper has nothing to do with anything is bunk.  

and we shouldn’t let the fact Cam returned erase the horrific failure of Rhule at the QB position.  

I don't think Tepper told Rhule to do anything. If Rhule has shown us anything, he has shown to sit/cut/bench players that are not performing. The first person that comes to mind is Whitehead. EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOMMA could see how bad Whitehead was but nobody said that Tepper forced Rhule to bench Whitehead. He signed Denzel Perryman. He wasn't performing. He was injured. He got rid of him. Same thing happened with Sam. Give Rhule's past history, I don't think he would have stayed with Sam much longer.

Yes you are correct that Rhule failed at the QB position but at the same time he hit on positions on the defense. He shouldn't have let Cam walked but he did. I don't like how they released Cam but they did. If they would have gotten Stafford I don't think we would be having this conversation.

18 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Well for starters I don’t think we should have gotten rid of Cam… if we don’t get rid of him then we probably aren’t having this discussion.

Knowing that we did ultimately get rid of Cam, I personally wanted Trubisky on a one year deal. I guess kudos to the staff for trying to find a replacement but I’m not too thrilled about giving up draft capital for a player who won’t be a part of our future going forward.

I think Matt Nagy is a QB killer and would have liked to seen Trubisky in a different offense.

I’d take Trubisky on a 1yr./$2.5M deal over trading assets away for Sam Darnold (and then picking up his 5th year option).

Both are risks but one risk doesn’t have the same repercussions as the other risk.

I guess on the bright side Darnold helped us get Cam back. I’m not entirely sure Trubisky would have been bad enough for that to happen.

The same argument could be had for Adam Gase. I won't say Gase was horrible because that would be an insult to the word horrible. Adam was was that bad. Look how bad Tannenhill was and then look at him now. Maybe the front office thought the same thing about Darnold. Maybe that's why they went after him.

Also I do agree that we should have kept Cam for his final year of his contract. I don't think we would have made the playoffs with Cam last year because our defense was bad. We just couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. I didn't like how they got rid of Cam but I do understand why. It's a new coaching staff. Cam was part of the old regime. They wanted to start fresh with a total rebuild and with a new QB.

I would have been ok if they traded only a 2nd for Darnold but now looking back on it, the Jet's fleeced us on that one. That's ok. You win some and you lose some. And I also in agreement with you that they should have never picked up his option immediately. I don't know why they did that. 

After our win against the Cardinals, I don't see how they go back to Sam. At this point, who would want Sam? If we trade him, we won't get back the compensation that we gave up to get him.

15 hours ago, MillionDollarCam said:

People who aren’t giving him credit for the defense are foolish. Rhule and Snow have this defense playing at a level that Carolina fans have only seen a few times.

The issue I have again is the process… so we missed out on Stafford; that’s not anyone’s fault. Watson likes tuggies so it was a no go; once again not anyone’s fault. I am in the same boat and don’t like Fields so no argument from me there.

What wasn’t the right move is compounding the Bridgewater mistake by bringing on Darnold.

So we kinda agree on not drafting Justin Fields. If you were the Rhule, at that particular time, who would you have gone after at QB? Please don't say keep Bridgewater because I don't know if I could have handle check down passes on 4th down.

Why is this 10 pages long?

1 minute ago, MillionDollarCam said:

I’ll add this well since it won’t let me edit my original post.

The guy who was the director of college scouting for the Seahawks and identified Russell Wilson in the third round probably knows more about identifying talent than the college coach who’s best QB’s have been P.J. Walker and Charlie Brewer.

Rhule has missed on QB after he tried to Stafford. After he tried to get Watson and then settled for Darnold. I'm ok with passing on Fields. I dont like any QBs from Alabama or Ohio State. Darnold was ok fi the firt 3 games and he unraveled.

I dont see people give him credit for the defense.

@MillionDollarCam

I also disagree that Tepper made Rhule reach out to Cam.

4 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

You can’t be serious… giving full control to a college coach has never worked… Greg Schiano, Doug Marrone, Chip Kelly, Bill O’Brien, and now Rhule. Harbaugh was the only coach who had any success and his players ran him off because he was a dick.

And it’s not just the QB position, it’s hard to evaluate every position, hell it took this staff just as long to find a kicker as it did to realize they made a mistake in releasing Cam. Using one example of Brady doesn’t make your case any stronger.

The big issue here is that the answer truly was on the roster but now we are paying $40M more than we needed to in order to find out what we knew all along. Not to mention they didn’t even give Cam a chance to compete… it was a new coaching staff that was egotistical and wanted full control and knew they wouldn’t have full control as long as Cam was the QB because of his presence.

Now you have everyone on here asking how we are going to keep Cam, Reddick, Gilmore, and Jackson… well we could have if we weren’t paying $40M to Rhule’s QB’s.

Bottom line is Matt Rhule knows football, where he’s struggled so far is player evaluation and he was on the verge of getting himself fired until Tepper made him reach out to Cam.

You do realize that he rebuilt this entire defense right? Brown, Chinn, signing Reddick, trading for Gilmore, drafting Horn....I can name more but if you're going trash Rhule for the QB then give him credit for rebuilding the defense. He also drafted Hubbard and also signed Abdullah who also has been a pleasant surprise. The majority of people on defense are the players he chose except Burns, Shaq, and Donte and those were Hurney/Gettleman picks.

This coaching staff isn't perfect. I didn't agree with them cutting Cam in the first place and then I also didn't agree picking up Sam's 5th year option but at least this coaching has the balls to admit when they are wrong and are able to resign Cam. How many other franchises would have done what he have done? To have the gall to say that "Hey, we made a mistake. Let's bring you back". I can't think of many. 

I am one of the few that loves this coaching staff. it's hard to find and evaluate a QB. That is problem the hardest position to evaluate. If it was so easy, Brady would not have went in the 6th round. Everybody saying the Rhule shouldn't be the decision maker on the QB but I don't think Fitz would have done any better.

At the beginning of the season when Sam wasn't turning the ball over, we were 3-0. Then the Dallas game happen and he started to turn the football over. We are 5-5. We had 5 wins this year and I'm pretty sure we are going to win a few more games. From 5-11 to possibly playoffs in 1 season with a young roster? I'll take that.

I'm just glad to see they are actively trying to fix the problem and find an answer. Even with the offensive line. I guarantee that will be address in the off-season.

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Any idea why Brady isn't getting any run right now?  Daley had two holding calls and a false start yesterday, really killed the momentum on a few drives.

One of them holding calls wasn't holding. The defender fell on his own and Daley fell as well. The ref must f thought that Daley took him down which he didn't.

27 minutes ago, Greatman77 said:

Posting in what will be the longest thread in forum history

The longest thread in forum history was probably back in 2011 when we drafted/talked about drafting Cam. This will not beat this.

26 minutes ago, CRA said:

well, that tecncially a different argument IMO than what is suggested by saying Ohio St QBs.  Given the specific narrative around the guys that played there of late. 

I don't disagree with what you are saying entirely.   Bama is a great example.   The talent disparity between Bama and even other top programs is often big.   

I was down w/ Fields largely because he had Brent Venebles beat twice on the big stage despite only getting one win.    There really are only a handful of games that mean much with the mega programs. 

I can get behind this reasoning for wanting Fields. 

I know plenty of people are upset that we got Darnold instead. I'm happy that the organization tried to get Stafford. I'm happy that the organization got rid of Teddy. I'm happy that the organization wanted to get Watson. Even though it appears that Darnold was the wrong choice for QB, I'm at least glad that the organization tried to address the problem. They are not twiddling their thumbs. I'm disappointed that they picked up his 5th Year option before he even played a snap. I wouldn't have done that but oh well.

I bet in the off-season they will try to fix the offensive line and I bet they will get a QB too.

Oh. I'm done with Joe Brady.

Just now, CRA said:

The actual issue was Urban Meyer QBs.   Those are the ones that set a trend.  Consistent trend of those in his offense not working out.  From FL to Ohio St. 

but Fields didn't play for Urban and in his offense.   That's why the narrative was irrelevant. 

I disagree. Me personally, I really don't like QBs from big schools like Alabama, OSU, USC just to name of a few because they have talent at the skill positions. I was on board with us drafting Cam Newton because I saw what he did with Auburn and that 2nd half come back against Alabama.

Fields could be that guy and I could be wrong but I wasn't up in arms and pissed when we didn't take Fields. I know people wanted Fields but I'm in the minority. I didn't want him.

17 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

USC QB's are not good.  Just like OSU QB's.  I would stay far away from either programs QBs myself. 

Exactly why Im glad we passed on Fields

He's done done.

Sam played well today. I blame the receivers and the lack of execution

I wish we would have gotten him partly because I wanted to see the meltdown on the huddle. This would probably rival the time when we drafted Cam Newton.  I really believe Watson makes our team better and I don’t fault the organization one bit for trying to improve the team.

16 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

You are correct. Cowboys showed that man coverage plus base four rush beats us. No need to bring the house and give the qbs easy throws if the dline is able to do it on their own. 
 

For some reason, joe Brady wasn’t calling counter plays to this, like rub routes, double routes, pocket moving throws or seam routes up the middle. 
 

I believe Rhule noticed this yesterday and is exhausted of some The play calls that Brady is calling. Yesterday, I counted about 5-6 recycled plays from our previous games… very disappointed in lack of creativity and originality in our playbook.

Ever since that Cowboys game, teams has been playing man against us. I'm not a football coach or anything but if I can notice this sitting on my couch without even looking at film on a daily basis then how come Joe Brady can't? I'm a believer in Rhule but Joe Brady may need to go and be a Head Coach at LSU or USC somewhere because what he is doing ain't it.

I could be wrong but I am noticing a lot of teams are playing more man coverage against us. I really noticed this against the Eagles. They are more of a zone coverage team which is why teams were running all over them. I believe Vikings are more of a zone team as well and they have played more man coverage against us.

Are WRs have a problem beating man coverage and that's a huge problem. Maybe running to set up the pass can help alleviate this.