SetfreexX

7 minutes ago, JABANOG said:

Temple

13-16 PJ Walker

Baylor

17 Zach Smith/ Charlie Brewer 

18-19 Charlie Brewer 

Panthers

20 Teddy/PJ/Will

21 Darnold/PJ/Will

 

Yea this man shouldn't be making the QB decisions even with full roster control it seems he's never even had an AVERAGE QB 

We PASSED on Fields for a corner, albeit a corner that's likely to be damn good, but we passed on Fields and talked ourselves into a QB saying things like ''well if Darnold came out this year he'd be behind Trevor Lawrence''. 

BUT, he didn't come out this year, he came out 3 years ago....sigh*

I don't HATE the Darnold move, I'd rather they both be on the roster with not 18.8M guaranteed to Darnold in 2022. I hope it all works out. 

Play Design - I'd say 8.5 - 9 out of 10

Play-calling in 2020 - 6.5 - 7 out of 10

Overall I think we have a good OC that is still growing into that role at the NFL level, from ''Collegiate Passing Game Coordinator'' to ''OC" is a HUGE jump. 

I think we have more in place at all spots on offense, and even with the concern over the OL, I'd wager it's a little better off than last season, it stands to reason we should be pretty good on offense especially if the defense is as good as it is on paper at the key spots. 

OP is reminiscing on the ''older'' Drew Brees. 

When they had guys like Colston, Devry Henderson, Robert Meachum, and a handful of others they challenged deep often, same for LSU. 

The thing was they could ALSO dice you up underneath when you played to protect versus big plays, as Drew's arm weakened they became more of a run / defensive oriented team with a shot here and there just to keep you honest. 

46 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

The dinking and dunking is fine to an extent but the D has to have fear of the deep ball or this will turn into Teddy 2.0.

Too much of that without taking shots or even being unable to take those shots like Cam was late in his time here because of the injury and the dink and dunk will be smothered. 

I think that is what the staff realized over the course of the season, remember that 4th and 9 play, and Teddy through the shallow 2 yard crosser...

I think that was the point where they knew internally he was reluctant to throw it down field regularly when available. 

IMO TB plays to protect his stats aka maintaining 60+ % completion, he knew he wasn't guaranteed anything outside of an absurd amount of money, but as we all saw getting out of that contract wasn't too difficult. 

I think he played for the next stop, keep the % up, and the turnovers low and you'll always have a job, he got his 20+M and moved on. 

22 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

Scott Finesser

Finesserer fixed it for you.

I wonder if they use those big helmet pads like I've seen on our guys?

16 minutes ago, ZeroZeroSeven said:

Likely means Perryman is gone.  2 bonehead decisions (speeding ticket/no covid vaccine), not much participation in TC/scrimmages/Preseason games...writing on the wall is all but dried methinks.

We don't have enough depth to release off ball LBs.

Why did we not take that Guard, and then in the ''Confidential'' video they're all excited about taking a LS in the 6th. I'm still annoyed by that. 

Also UDFA Davide Moore, I'm surprised we moved on so quickly. 

8 hours ago, cookinbrak said:

People see what they want to see. He's not Justin Fields, therefore he sucks. Don't expect rationale around here.

It's not that he sucks, I think most simply believe Fields is more talented, and better overall for the team in the long run. 

I would wager several hope to have their skepticism of Darnold and to some degree this coaching staff alleviated with a high level of play. 

Darnold had all the clout coming out as a rookie, and he's just 23 so we will see. 

There were a few plays the first drive in the RZ with a lead blocker, Ricci, and Thompson. 

At the very least with all the day 2 trading Mond should have been in the mix for one of those spots just because PJ, and Grier have no futures beyond career back ups. 

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I would have taken Fields or Slater too but that's in the past now. We'll have many years to talk about the big miss or how we nailed that move. My point being that even if we don't have a high draft pick in the future to spend on a QB, it is still POSSIBLE to obtain one and even a very good one. If we build a great team here, we could potentially attract a top talent.

I'm just saying top talents don't leave their teams, extensions and Franchise Tags prevent that, if we were to get a guy it'd be ala the Peyton Manning / Tom Brady route old with a small window. Could that happen with a guy like Rodgers, or if Russell is unhappy in SEA who knows. 

It's why you draft the young man with talent when you have the chance. Coaching guys up is part of it, but just like Chip Kelley found out the NFL is not ''plug and play'' and I feel like that's what we're doing. 

When I watch the clips it sounds like they talked themselves into Darnold thinking that Fields wouldn't fall once SF moved up. 

Then when Fields was there and we'd given up 3 picks for Darnold to save face they took BPA at a position of need ON DEFENSE. After literally DEVOTING the entire 2020 class to defense. I like the class this year, if you swap Fields for Horn, man oh man. That's something to HAVE BEEN excited about as we move forward. With Darnold, most are annoyed because he hasn't been good, and now we're stuck hoping we can 'turn it around' the 'fresh start' narrative. 

When was the last time that worked? Not being facetious I'm genuinely asking, when was the last young failed QB picked up and went onto to NFL success....

Gabbert, Rosen, Haskins, Bortles, Mariotta, WInston (maybe TBD), EJ Manuel, etc. all no's.  

1 hour ago, raleigh-panther said:

Truthfully, I’m not convinced that Rhule really understands the need and importance at QB1 or how to play the NFL game AND Nfl MIND GAMES  to get one 

this isn’t college where you can make someone be something they aren’t by ‘coaching them up’.  

This ^^^ you are what you are and there were three years to look at Darnold, I get all the Gase and NYJ roster lacking talent, but you say add Darnold to our talent...ok a step further now add Justin Fields to -- CMC / DJ / Robbie / TMJ etc. 

That is easily one of the most DYNAMIC offenses in the league and we haven't even touched on the TE's, Shi who looks like a Day 1 or 2 pick as well as Chuba. 

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

By the end of year three we need to have a winning record, I think that's the bar. It is for me, anyway. 

The QB situation....well, that just depends on what we have access to. If we don't have a top 10 pick or a QB doesn't fall to us(let's just get past the Justin Fields thing, nothing can change that), it's going to be tough sledding there for a while until we find the guy. But, not having a franchise QB doesn't mean we cannot build a high caliber team that can eventually lure away a franchise QB in free agency. There is more than one way to accomplish obtaining one. Look at what Tampa was able to do. The Rams were just able to acquire a franchise QB, as well. So, I don't think that QB situation is a hard line for getting rid of Rhule. Winning is the hard line. If we aren't winning after year three, the heat will be on in a big way.

This RARELY if ever happens in a Franchise QB's prime, they all get paid of FT'ed, this isn't the answer or really even the hope. Which is why passing on the talent of Fields looks idiotic, and short sighted. Trading for Sam is fine, but are you really hedging your coaching career to a QB who even before Gase hadn't shown a lot?

I like Darnold seems like a good dude, but I'm choosing Fields over him each time. 

1 hour ago, raleigh-panther said:

No one gets a 5 year honeymoon in the NFL,  No one 

He will get 3 at best,  and in that three year period,  he best have solved the QB1 situation  if the Panthers have any hope of being more than a middle of the pack team, in other words, not relevant…

…and not relevant isn’t going to get a new stadium built or sustain fan interest 

Should have drafted Fields give the people a reason to want to come, my understanding is Tepper wanted Fields, but let the GM / Coach decide. 

1 hour ago, rippadonn said:

They should have sat Fields behind Darnold for a year or just in case.

Exactly, QB is too important not to swing when you're at bat, the SF 49ers literally have a SB participating QB on their roster, and traded a big haul for a change to take a you one with +++ Athleticism / Arm talent.

I feel like we're too busy trying to ''show how smart we are''. Like a poster mentioned, there's little reason to be excited, I don't look at a castoff QB as our ''future''.

Could he be perhaps, but at what cost? 

21 hours ago, NAS said:

Most new coaches have a honeymoon period that gets them the benefit of the doubt and a lot of leeway with, not only the owner, but the media and the fans.

I think that, in his second year, Rhule is still on a honeymoon period with Tepper and the media.

With the fans, however, I feel like Rhule had a very short lived honeymoon period that basically ended when he had to release Cam and signed Bridgewater. Even though his team overachieved last year based on the fact that team was in a full rebuild mode, he doesn’t seem very popular with the fans who remain skeptical. 

There seem to be three main reasons for this:

1. Rebuild since 2018

Many fans don’t consider the rebuild to have started in 2020. Instead, they date it back to 2018 when Tepper bought the team. They unfairly are taking their frustrations out on Rhule even though he has not had a chance to really put together his program yet. Even last year, he had to deal with the inept Hurney. Historically it took him until year 3 to build a winning program. No such patience with this fanbase.

2. Lack of NFL experience.
Right or wrong, many fans don’t seem to put as much value on his leadership abilities to put together winning programs like in college. They think college head coaches seldom translate to the NFL often emphasizing failed experiments with Saban, Kelly and others. I think the main difference is that Saban relied on getting the top players, Kelly on offensive scheme.  Rhule relied neither on top recruits nor the X’s and O’s, he simply maximized everyone’s potential to work together as a team.
 

3. QB decisions

Starting with Cam’s release, Bridgewater signing and now the Darnold trade, some think Rhule is in over his head and doesn’t realize how important the QB position is in the NFL.  This is perhaps his biggest unknown.  If he can really redeem Darnold and get him to be elite, then he will silence all doubters for a very long time. 
 

In conclusion, it’s clear that this year is crucial for Rhule as far as fan support is concerned. The honeymoon period is already over and expectations are higher than perhaps is fair to have in only the second year coaching.

This is where I am with this at the moment, in relation to Fields specifically who was available at no. 8 -- I understand they are trying to build an elite level defense, and round out the entire roster in a what that was never emphasized in the Rivera era. 

IMO passing on TOP QB talent similar to Lamar / Kyler is a stupide decision when the position you take is a corner. If we'd gone Slater, then okay as that is the 2nd most important position on offense outside of QB and one of the hardest to find as we can attest. 

With a talented rookie like Fields in this offense, with this staff IMO the sky is the limit. With all the maneuvering that was done on draft day, we could've found a starting caliber corner with size on day 2, and with a QB on a rookie contract if they wanted to invest in the secondary via a contract we'd have that flexibility. 

Maybe we are taking the SF approach, get a QB with talent for basically a 2nd (same compensation as Garropollo) and surround him with the best roster possible to put the QB in a position where he doesn't have to win every down / game. Once a full team is in place and the QB doesn't work out you're in a better position to sacrifice a few picks to jump up the board. 

The only thing is....it took injury after injury to even put them in range of having a 1st rounder high enough to move up. Without all those injuries, they're a playoff team. I'm annoyed they were able to add Lance. And will likely also get compensation for Jimmy. 

IMO that is where we messed up, take the QB -- create a REAL competition, and also solidify the back up spot / future, while also having some trade bait to a QB hungry team in Darnold. We just handed him the keys, I don't like giving a guy anything, he came in versus PJ and Will, and got his 5th year picked up as well. He has no pressure to perform. It's a soft approach and it's why I remain skeptical, I think they got Cam wrong as when healthy (which was in question, I repeat in question) he's better than Bridgewater, and Bridgewater has been better (doesn't have the arm talent) but has been better than Darnold to date who at no point was better than a healthy Cam. 

So for me if they fail again at QB, I'm ready to move on because we should have drafted Fields, as that would have given us a clear direction as he is more talented than Darnold. 

15 hours ago, onmyown said:

I didn’t think it’d bother me but I realized I really do prefer a real field.

Aside from cost, is there a benefit of turf?

If they are looking at hosting an MLS team, all the college games and live events, it makes sense to have the turf as that is less maintenance. 

31 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I don't think Haynes or Miller are true DEs.  Both are undersized and are pure edge rushers.  They are essentially the same guy and one-trick ponies.  I would like to see one more traditional 4-3 DE added for depth.  The depth at LB is questionable beyond Luvu, the #4 guy.   I know Tremble likes to hit, but liking contact is not the only quality of a good FB.  I'd prefer a guy that has done it routinely and understands how to lead block while being able to execute.  Swing tackle and kicker are no-brainers.

You should watch the cut ups on Tremble, I'd say his Notre Dame tape would show he has the ability to lead block. 

------------------------------------------------

As far as LB's I think fans need to get out of the -- 4-3 mindset, our 1st defensive alignment was a 3-4 front: 

Fox (RE) Jones (NT) Brown (LE)

Edge - Burns & Reddick

Offball LB'er aka ILB - Shaq & Carter Jr.

S - Chinn & Burriss

If you think of the defense this way -- Haynes, Luve, and Miller all fit into the EDGE rotation as specifically Haynes at Ole Miss, and Miller at Alabama played from a two point stance. I'm not as familiar with Luvu, but I do know he has has Edge experience. 

So with that in mind we are in good shape -- with Yetur, Bravvion, Nixon, we have flexible pieces to roll out size as well as speed as I think we will see even more 3-4 and 4-3 Under Fronts, to go along with the 3-3-5 Snow introduced last year. 

Cover ability / speed at ILB are still my biggest concerns, with teams in 11 personnel 65+% of the time, the need for a ''tradition'' DE is less than we have been accustomed to if you were watching football before the spread started to take over.

31 minutes ago, Captroop said:

K has to be priority one. But I feel like some talent will become available. At this point, I don't think we need a booming leg, we just need someone who's automatic at 40 yards or less. I'd settle for someone who won't win us games but won't lose us any.

And speaking of booming legs, I have to say I'm really happy with Charlton.

MLB depth. After watching Johnston get gassed in the 3rd quarter, I'm really not comfortable with us even having a reliable 3rd string MLB.

And of course OL depth. But is seems like we're far from alone in that. There might be a bidding war for some teams' table scraps.

 

I wonder if he could consistently kick touchbacks?

That is what Joey offers the most, and TO BE fair Slye has been solid, with the leg power as a + but overall he's been a bottom 1/3 kicker in relation to accuracy -- https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3124084/joey-slye

In 2020 - 80.6% on FGs (23rd in the NFL) -- 91.7% on PATs (Tied for 20th) -- Longest 56 yards, tied for 9th

The real question is -- who is available that is better, that's the real question. 

31 minutes ago, shaqattaq said:

Luvu has been making plays. Looks to be solid depth. Not sure about how his speed holds up in coverage, but he plays fast downhill. I'm not arguing, just didn't want to forget someone who's having a great preseason. 

I have been surprised by Luvu, he also timed poorly I believe he was also 4.7's but I see him more in the EDGE category versus off-ball. Which was why I didn't mention him. 

I DO think he has a chance to become a guy fans love because he seems to give everything every snap, maybe one of those guys that plays faster than he times. 

I'm all about LB'ers that bring the thud!

Also to add, what we need is more SPEED at OFFBALL LB'er

We need some younger / athletic depth -- Bynes is slow as hell out there, and misses tackles left and right it feels like, I was not impressed vs IND, and don't even recall him vs BAL.

Denzell is coming off injury, but ran a 4.78 coming out of the ''U'', he can paly down hill and strike, but his long speed is lacking. 

That just leaves us with Shaq / Carter Jr. - LB'er is EXTERMELY thin at the moment, and former Baylor LB'er Johnston ain't the answer either.