SetfreexX

As most of you know by now the Moton extension freed up 10M in cap space, putting us in a pretty solid spot financially with 24M available. I think Rhule outlined last off-season that they'd like to carry at least 6-8M into the regular season to account for unforeseen circumstances, so for the sake of argument, let's say we have a functional 17M (average of 6 & 8 is 7). 

Names like Clinton-Dix were already in camp for try-outs, and recently Kawaan Short was cleared and recently featured in a picture with Derrick Brown and Bravvion Roy (see twitter / instagram)

Knowing that DL & S aside from OL are weak points, who out of the available free agents draws the most interest from you?

S - Chinn / Burris / Robinson / Clinton-Dix**

DL - Brown / Jones / Roy / Nixon / Short**

I don't hate those additions as depth / rotational players on 1-yr deals, which is likely any team would offer, while still having youth at those positions*

Available Free Agents - https://nfltraderumors.co/top-50-2021-nfl-free-agents/

Based on this list, there's a few names that at least stand out to me:

OL -  Okung is better than -- Erving / Little / Scott

IDL - KK Short / Jurrell Casey / Damon Harrison as another space eater

Off Ball LB - KJ Wright (Fitterer ties) / Kwon Alexander / Mychal Kendricks (Fitterer ties)

Edge - Justin Houston / Olivier Vernon / Ezekiel Ansah (Fitterer ties) / Bruce Irvin (Fitterer & CAR ties)

He needs to be considering we passed on a top rookie QB prospect. We seem to be taking the SF approach of build the BEST possible team, and insert QBs as needed if one doesn't work out.

With the notion that IF we have a complete team we can mortgage picks to move up if needed, but if Darnold aka our Garoppollo works out then ok to that as well.  

11 minutes ago, hepcat said:

There's a very high chance Darnold is a bust. He was mediocre to downright awful on the Jets, with flashes of potential sprinkled in. 

Knowing that, the Panthers still traded for him, and then passed on Justin Fields. The Panthers were so desperate to get rid of Teddy Bridgewater, but refused to double down at the QB position to get it solved. Doesn't make any sense to me. 

This 100%, Sam was not so PROVEN that you bring him in WITH NO COMPETITION and he only costed 4M at that time, you take the QB when they're there because the position is that important. 

You'd always be able to trade Sam just like we did T2G down the line. 

2 minutes ago, Mother Grabber said:

not sure the camps with gaze count

The NFL is the NFL, even on the worst teams. 

I think the turn-around could be more similar to Baker and CLE vs Tannehill and TEN. Freddie Kitchens had no idea what he was doing. 

I want us to win with whoever is under-center, I just preferred the talent / monetary value Fields provided at #8 over a corner. 

Look at the last several SB winning / participating teams, none of them had high end DB pedigree, they all had top end QB play, and / or weapons ALL OVER on offense, and a pass rush, with at least one high end back end safety. 

You're not looking at -- LAR (One of the best offenses in the league THAT year) / KC, and TB enough said, it's an embarrassment of riches for each / SF best run game in the NFL with Deebo, and Kittle, top tier pash rush (Sherman past his prime)

I'm not ignoring defense, but winning teams can score at a high clip, and have enough defense to match that at the premium spots. 

I like to idea of building a full defenses, just not at the expense of a QB at #8. With all the trades we made, we could have added corner depth. 

2 minutes ago, shaqattaq said:

Nice logic. I'm fine with anyone being against the Sam trade, Lord knows it confused me at the time, but the "Sam is trash" comments just strike me as BS trolling. Your opinion is well thought out and nicely presented.

Let's all hope your wrong

As much as anyone else, I want us to WIN, however I don't let common sense elude me either. At least I try not to. I don't care who the QB is IF WE'RE WINNING. 

I just don't like the idea of signing / trading for unproven talent, because we're on the hook for 18M, and if he's good ''IF'' we're looking at paying PREMIUM QB money in just 2 seasons. Where as if Fields hit's his potential, you have up to 5 years of modest QB money, and with all the young guys we have coming up, we'd have less need to let 1 or 2 walk, especially considering the savings on Shaq's contract in a season or two (20-25M in savings in 22 / 23 if memory serves).

3 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

It’s funny how some people point to stats like this….let’s forget the fact that he was destroyed every other play, but do you not think that the talent around him factors in to his red zone and “clean pocket” stats? If he has little talent at WR that does not gets separation along with terrible play calls what do you think the results will be? Some defended Cam to the death last year because of a lack of talent around him (cough cough) but will point at stats like this as to why our QB is trash. 
 

Darnold has the ability to turn things around here. He’s 24 and we have seen QBs have a complete turnaround with life after Gase. If he does not work out,  it’s not like we are tied down for 5 years and will be crippled with guaranteed money. It’s a low risk high reward move we have made and I’m not sure what is so had to understand about that

Teddy had weapons, even with CMC out of the line up. 

People defending Cam because people know what he's capable of. 

QB's or ''a'' QB (Tannehill), who else thrived after Gase, also Tannehill had already ''earned'' an extension prior to Gase's arrival he was already proven, he regressed under Gase THEN returned to form in TEN. 

Darnold hadn't even convinced the team that drafted him to keep him, there's a difference. 

39 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

We shall see.  But to dismiss a player before his first camp is also trash.

His 4th camp....

His 1st with us, a lot of the same excuses / hype were made for T2G, I'm waiting to see. However; I was 100% on board with Fields, talent / value of the rookie contract with Sam AT THAT TIME only on a 1yr / 4M deal. 

I would have let them battle it out in camp, and used the money to sign a corner this off-season or next. I'd have been ok going after a Peterson, Sam doesn't strike me as a get us to the playoffs talent, and I don't see anything in his game that could be considered elite -- at least with guys like Cam (early), Lamarr, Russel, Kyler, and even Josh Allen is they possess upper tier athleticism so even if you say they process slower:

1) You have to account for them in the run game, short yardage / redzone

2) Limits man coverage as the DBs eyes are off the QB

3) Makes the HB better

Now if you want to throw in the OSU QB stigma, USC HAS THAT SAME STIGMA (Leinart, Sanchez, JDB, Barkley, etc.)

12 hours ago, Snake said:

This right here.

They can eat it pretty easily IF it was necessary. Its just a safety net if he plays well. And isn't to high to eat if we make a move. 

I think skipping on Fields will come back to bite us, and I am in full acknowledgement of the talent Jaycee Horn could turn out to be. I just don't think you essentially sell out for Darnold, those rookie QB contracts on TALENTED QBs which is what Justin is are too valuable to just pass on. 

18M guaranteed / 22M over these next two seasons, while also eating the dead cap from getting the Teddy decision wrong and having to trade him is a bitter pill to swallow. That's money for guys we need to extend in the next few years IMO: Moton, Robby's deal ends this year (Marshall was drafted but is unproven), DJ Moore, Burns will soon follow. 

It's a lot easier to keep that talent together with a rookie QB deal, and if Sam DOES show up, you can count on losing a stud or 2 when we're forced to pay market value in 2023. Maybe Shaq's money can help prevent that to some degree, but the point is that I'm not sure we made the best ''long term'' decision. 

Sam seems like a way to say we improved by winning 7 games versus 5. And if that's the jump, I'd argue we'd be able to do that with a Justin Fields.  

3 hours ago, SBBlue said:

Man that CB room is crowded.  Last year we only kept 5.

 8 Jaycee Horn CB
26 Donte Jackson CB
24 A. J. Bouye CB
29 Rashaan Melvin CB
25 Troy Pride CB
28 Keith Taylor CB
23 Stantley Thomas-Oliver CB
35 Jalen Julius CB

Melvin on down will be battling for 2 spots.

Is this what having depth looks like?

I think we keep 6, thinking about the NFC South / longer season we'll need depth. 

8, 26, 24 -- as the ''starters''

29, 25, 28 -- ''rotational'' depth

I think the kid ''28'' Keith Taylor out of WAS will edge out STO III, but I think STO III will end up on the PS. 

36 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

This is where teams fall into cap hell.  You have to have a budget for each position.  Sure, if you look ONLY at RT and say, "We gotta pay him!!"  then later, when you have no money to pay your QB, or a DE, or a CB---you lose that player.  Keep him for a year if he still wants elite LT money.  Groom Christensen.  Understand, I love Moton--and I get the points the opposite side of the argument is making---I just think when you overpay at any position, you lose in the long run.

This is why you draft Fields at 8, and have a QB on a rookie deal for 4 years plus the 5th year option.

I understand the DB need, but I'm not sold on Sam same way I wasn't on TB. And he's locked in for 18M next year. 

On 6/19/2021 at 4:25 PM, SBBlue said:

 

His QB for all but 1 season ...

I could name the starters, and most depth and jersey numbers.

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Our safeties are interchangeable, so sure, call it safety.  Agreed, Ha-Ha would be purely a depth signing unless he can beat out Burris.  However, since he got cut so early into the Cowboys camp last year, it seems his better days (at least as a realistic starting option) are over. 

Depends on if the guy that beat him out is better than Burris...Safety, and specifically FS has been a huge issue for our defense, I mean as sketch as Charles Godfrey was, that was about the last time. Also is the 2015 season from Coleman. 

We also had the guy we lost to PIT Mike Mitchell in the 2013 season I think it was, and he didn't even move to FS until injury if memory serves. Hopefully this with Fitterer having seen first hand what a talent like Ear Thomas / and even Mathieu in his Cardinal days can do makes this position a bit more of a focus as we move forward. 

Under Rivera is was a complete and utter focus on the front 7, IMO a good but outdated philosophy, yes it protects the secondary, BUT when you can't get there, you have limited options in coverage. Even in 2015, outside of Norman our DBs were afterthoughts, and our Safeties were both in the back 9 of their careers (Coleman / Harper)

This staff's approach seems to center on good talent at every level versus stacking it all in the front 7. More of a team approach with a few studs here and there (Burns, Brown, Chinn, and likely now Horn). Meanwhile we have good players in Perryman, Shaq, Donte', Reddick Bouye, Jones. With emerging talent the likes Yetur, Carter Jr., and potentially Pride who held up under fire. 

7 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Here you go, straight from Phil Snow himself:

Excerpt on Chinn switching his role to focus more on the back end this year.

"Chinn's the obvious part of that, as he's taking most of his work with the safeties this spring after playing linebacker last year. Snow said they were still going to move him around and use him multiple ways, but adding players such as Reddick and Denzel Perryman at linebacker (and both Snow and head coach Matt Rhule have mentioned Frankie Luvu lately as another versatile piece) gives them the flexibility to let Chinn play a deeper role.

"Last year, we used him from the front back, and this year I think he's going to be more from the back up," Snow said of Chinn. "But a lot of the same things he can do, based on what we're calling."

I don't see Free Safety in this excerpt, none the less the safety that has a ''box'' support sole is generally the SS. It would likely be better to list him as that as between the 2 safety positions, the Strong is the one you see lining up in the deep middle, in the box, and at times over the slot as the ''Big Nickel''. 

Burris and last year's 5th rounder Robinson are the current FS depth, brining in HaHa to compete makes some sense, and Burris was a corner transition to S earlier in his career, & Robinson came from the XFL. At the least HaHa would bring true center-field experience to the back end / depth. 

On 6/10/2021 at 10:58 AM, KatsAzz said:

I hope the added muscle will increase his sack ability after getting only two QB hits on 55 blitz attempts

If he's blitzing inside which is likely it offers an opportunity for a free edge rusher depending on numbers. He's an offball LBer with Luke gone. 

Better metric would be the team results on those blitzes. 

2 hours ago, Strawman said:

Shaq Thompson signed a 4 year, $54,433,000 contract with the Carolina Panthers, including a $16,000,000 signing bonus, $27,525,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $13,608,250.
 

James Bradberry signed a 3 year, $43,500,000 contract with the New York Giants, including $31,980,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $14,500,000

 

one million difference in annual salary, paid the wrong guy. 

You can't look at an annual avg, you have to look at the guaranteed money, Shaq cost less, there's more than a 1M dollar difference. 

3 hours ago, Captain Morgan said:

large part of this problem was cap space.

As bad as Hurney was at drafting after the first round, he was even worse at giving out contracts, which led to our inability to keep players like Josh Norman.

Obviously, when you draft as hideously as Hurney, there's not a lot of guys you want to resign any way.

Now look at all our cap space moving forward, with tons of young talent we'll be able to keep in the future.

So grateful for the new regime.

He was FT'ed we had the money to do that, DG was just feeling himself and pulled the contract. We could have kept Bradberry if we'd not paid Shaq, that was Hurney being Hurney. 

An interesting thought is who wanted to STAY here, to be fair some of the over-payments, or dismissals over the years could be for players who had options after that 1st 4 years. 

Not saying they all did, but some did. 

Y'all must not know, he was NOT a voluntary opt out. 

He had high risk health factors, he HAD to.

2 hours ago, Agent Blue said:

It's up to the QB to understand their lines ability and to make their reads accordingly.

If I know my line is booty, I got to get the ball out ideally within 2 seconds.

gotta set up the right plays and make the right reads.

 

So receiver separation needs to exist...

21 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Regardless of your opinion (or mine) all had winning records with over 60 starts as a Jets QB.  

Sam was 13-25.

NOTE:  I am eager to see Sam do well. 

See the Jets record during Sam's time there when he didn't play.

It's like 0-10 if memory serves. Top 5 QB picks generally go to bad teams. Which means bad records. 

Lance had a two year removed SB team trade up for him. I expect a lot from him early. 

17 minutes ago, Snake said:

This guy kinda sucks off Gase more than he should.

Didn't get that impression at all.

Good watch if you have time...

Tremble is a ''forecast'' pick, excellent for the short term in the sense Rhule has been saying he wants to build a ''tough, and physical'' team. He checks those boxes. 

The interesting thing with Tremble is the POTENTIAL, he's probably the day one best blocking TE on our team, and that's generally the hard part for rookie TE's. 

Hands get better with reps, and ND just did not use him that way, running a 4.59 and having enough height and weight (Panther's site says he's 6'4 / 250, article says 6'3 / 240) -- it's a lot to be intrigued about. 

In an offense like ours that creates a space, and a QB that isn't timid, I think we could see some decent production in the passing game as a rookie. He has the athleticism on those dump offs to turn the corner on defenders. 

With the attention our other options, receive he should have some space to work with out of the backfield, and underneath.