SetfreexX

You don't take future 1sts in 24, and 25 for a Star caliber player that is ascending. Some of ya'll make no sense at all pass rush is a PREMIUM it's why they're willing to part with the 1st's in the first place. 

If you are gonna even consider the trade it can't be from a team that is likely to make the playoffs both of those seasons. Then you're trading our best pass rusher for some guys in the mid 20's....

You can trade a CMC, as paying a running back 19M-21M on avg is INSANE. That money, or that caliber of money is reserved for PREMIUM positions. 

QB / T / EDGE / WR / DB

In my mind October 10th should be a national holiday after the firing or Rhule, at the time I told myself I don't care what happens the rest of this season; I was just happy he was finally gone. So many people here, and in other social spaces that don't casually follow the team could see he was holding us back, this was fairly obvious end of year one, and blatantly obvious by the time he started throwing Cam under the bus to prop Darnold, and in an attempt to shift blame. (This isn't a Cam thread)

I think we have all seen a new ''life'' in the team since the change, and I'm even more surprised than I expected to be as Wilks has the team ''competing'' and that's something we were not doing, and that alone has made the last two games worth watching. I'll give LAR a pass as it was right after the firing; with likely little time to have an offensive plan in place; or perhaps in retro it was a CMC showcase for bidders 

Either way all of that has led to a new core, so let's explore who that currently is: (Core Players in my estimation in BOLD)

QB - None, Matt Corrall is intersting, and PJ is slinging it, but all signs point to taking a QB in the 1st

HB - None, however I'd like to see D'Onta Foreman retained, I was excited when we signed him but was frustrated at the absence under Rhule, Chuba is a nice piece, but he still can't catch

WR - DJ Moore, this is obvious, I'm inclined to include Terrace Marshall, as imagine that the 3rd of the LSU trio who was a 1st round prospect outside of the knee concerns has looked legit as his snaps have increased, again Rhule...wtf was he doing!? It was also nice to see redzone fade pass attempts to a guy that's a clean 6'3''. Also, anyone notice Shi Smith (former 6th) has been featured less, he's been on the field, but the targets are down since Rhule left. 

TE - None, I remain intrigued by Tommy Tremble, he seems to get a little more involved downfield than Thomas, and has more TDs over the past two seasons than Thomas. I'd like to see us to commit to Tommy as the starter and let Thomas continue to be TE #2. But I sweat McAdoo gonna get Ian that one TE screen a game. 

OL - This is where I kind a have to pinch myself...Ickey Ekowonu has been all we thought in the run game, and even more in pass pro after getting acclimated, Brady Christensen has settled in at LG, meanwhile the C we all felt was better Bradley Bozeman has played well now that he's on the field. Austin Corbett, and Taylor Moton are my other two core OL pieces. Arguments are definitely available to add Brady, and Boze to this, but Boze is on a one year deal, and I hope we are able to keep him, while Brady has performed right around average, no egregious issues, but nothing that stands out about him. If this was our starting five next year I'd be fine with that as well. 

Total Offensive Core Players - 4 out of 11 (Dj, Ickey, Corbett, Moton)

As you can see we still have a lot to do, but there are some promising pieces here as well (Foreman, TMJ, Tremble, Brady, Boze). I will concede that I subscribe to the belief that inserting a talented rookie into this mix could see us competing at a higher more consistent level. I like PJ and that throw last Sunday....sheesh, but we have to be honest he's not the long-term answer; and likely neither is Matt. I suspect he could have looked better in the pre-season as it should have been ''at that time at least'' Baker with the 1's, Matt with the 2's, as you don't trade for Baker to ''compete'', Sam with the 3's because we'd seen enough and PJ as the odd man out. Wasted reps all around in my opinion the way it was handled. 

I think people forget how HARD playing corner is in the NFL...

I also believe A LOT of our guys looked ''suspect'' with Rhule at the helm....

It seems pretty clear that even in losses, this team looks TOTALLY different, even guys some thought were underperforming.

The only area that still seems a lax is a pass rusher opposite Burns.

11 hours ago, Move the Panthers to Raleigh said:

Pete Carrol hasn’t won a Super Bowl in a decade

But he's won one...

17 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

Yeah, Im good on Stroud. We had our shot at Fields as passed for a reason... same goes for Stroud.

The reason = Rhules man crush on Sam

Why people act like Moton the better tackle can't also be or mentor?

Erving can go, it was a fluff piece, get what you can and add some draft ammo. 

He's gone as a cap casualty anyway in the off-season.

I liked CMC on this team as much as the next, but the idea he's a ''receiver'' is a bit overblown, he may have receiver quality hands and ability in the short to intermediate area, but he's not splitting out wide versus the best corners in the league cooking. 

He played HB in college and was drafted as one for a reason, he has a hell of a tool box, with a little more power than you 'd expect. 

But he's not a receiver, slants, screens, option routes, texas, wheels etc. are his bread and butter, with the occasional HB seam. 

Now to be fair, maybe Shanahan uses him more at the LOS, we will see which I think he'll fair well at underneath. 

We lost out on some offensive versatility with him due to injuries, and bland coordinators the last few years. 

4 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

Where is he? He is game day active but seeing zero snaps. Amare Barno even got snaps yesterday. You'd figure the coaching staff would play our younger players. Considering the potential of Brandon Smith, I wonder why he isn't getting any snaps.

 

Anyone have theories or content addressing this topic?

Wilson, Shaw, Wooten, Luvu are all ahead of him...he got some ST's snaps, EDGE where Barno plays is not as deep as the off-ball LB'er position. 

A couple guys would need to miss time for Smith to have room to step in. 

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

Blocking TE's are all we have on the roster. And they even suck at that.

I wouldn't go that far, they're both good blockers, we need an offense in my opinion that creates more opps aside from a TE screen pass. 

I like the size / athleticism / traits -- Thomas had a good year with Cam, then Olsen came back, then Joe Brady ignored the TE in the offense. 

I'm not as low on them, ultimately because we haven't drawn up much for them, perhaps with Robbie's exit, and...I can't believe I'm typing this Sam's return, we see some utilization down field. 

Thomas made a hell of a catch in the Vikings game, and has had a lot of spots over his career, the offenses emphasis on using TE hasn't always been there. 

Most have said this, but EDGE, IDL, and LB'er are higher on the list IMO at the moment. 

Other than Brandon Smith, I don't think we've drafted an off-ball LB'er the last 3 years have we...?

10 minutes ago, Toomers said:

   Please teach me how the Panthers are going to improve at the multiple positions that need filled. I’ll give you a QB and starting LB(at 32). That leaves….

  WR2-3, TE, C, DT, DE, LB and anything representing quality depth. 
 

   And is it smart for a team to spend all they can while rebuilding so there is no room to improve when/if you hit on a QB? 

Honesty, with DJ, TMJ, Shenault, Higgins, and Smith we have a competent WR group, FA or depending on if we trade back in the 2nd could see someone added. QB play / OC improves this dramatically.

TE - I think FA is still an option, but again QB play / OC is the primary issue.

DT - Brown is proving to be ''elite'', McCall has been a good space eater (listed at 380 on some sites), adding a guy via FA is likely, I wouldn't be surprised to see an Io extension. 

DE - Depends on the front you want to run, 43 or 34, we won't know until we have a new coach, likely addressed via draft. Barno adding to his frame is a potential option he has the same measurables as Burns.

LB - Shaq, Smith, Luvu, off ball LB'ers are relatively cheap, and also not hard to find day 2 / 3 of the draft. 

Again, the off-season, cap, and draft pick capital are fluid, it's silly to ''worry'' about the 2023 Off-season / Draft''. Fitterer and Morgan seem sharp, I think we will be surprised by how this off-season goes. 

3 minutes ago, UNCrules2187 said:

Shaq's got a year left on his deal and will be 30 years old next year. I don't think he's in the team's long-term plans honestly. I think the bigger mistake would be adding years to that deal and pushing more of his money down the line for an aging LB at this point.

He's 28 currently - https://www.google.com/search?q=shaq+thompson+age&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS803US803&oq=shaq+thompson+age&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30j0i15i22i30j0i390l4.4039j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

He'll be 29.

2 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

Letting Shaq go at this point would be a mistake. Restructuring his contract could net similar results without loosing the player.

If it's via trade I'd be ok with it, Shaq is turning 29, so he's not really in the long term plans. 

However, I am not adverse to keeping him ''IF"' we can make the money work. 

For all those that were freaking out about negative caps space, people need to remember how fluid the salary cap actually is, I think we'll be fine once we get to that time of year and begin to make adjustments, etc. 

I personally want to see more Brandon Smith alongside Shaq, and Luvu.

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Was Pepsi still the official soft drink of the Panthers at the time?

I believe so, I think the Coach switched happened yr2.

On 10/10/2022 at 8:21 PM, CPcavedweller said:

You didn't get that vibe watching the team play? Remember the Baker from Cleveland? The confidence he came in with each week going into each game? That has been gone. 

I know the team is just bad right now, but Baker's demeanor here compared to everywhere else he's been told me everything that I needed to know. 

He did the same with Cam, he literally had Cam wearing Panthers gear for his presser vs how he normally dressed. 

His "brand" suffocated personalities that didn't fit his taste. When guys can't be themselves they typically perform at a lower level, penalizing the team in TC bc of a endzone celebration with Higgins and Baker. 

Fug that gerbil looking fuggity fug.

Almost like the more reps, and practice you get the better you become...another area we wasted reps with a fake competition between him and Brady. 

The biggest thing with even ENTERTAINING trading either is the dead cap and having the receiving tram take on some of that as we already have a negative cap projection for 23'.

People need to understand how that functions first, Robbie just signed a restructure this past off-season and we should all understand CMC's contract by now.  

And Sheena Quick also reported the same as far as no talks to trade CMC, the Robbie trade seems more believable since we have TMJ, Laviska, Higgins, Smith all as viable options. 

9 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

Either way the combo of Wilks zone secondary and Snow's front 7 made zero sense. I'm not a fan of the zone stuff but I'm assuming he needs the front 7 doing particular things for the whole thing to work. In a perfect world he would switch to man and blitz like crazy but it may be zone and blitz like crazy

I'm pretty sure when Wilks ran the defense after McD left we transitioned to more man + pressures, the heavy zone was under McDermott who was an understudy of Jimmy Johnson in Philly. 

it's been years since then, but if memory serves that was the case. So even though Wilks as the secondary coach was likely primarily coaching zone it was a result of the defense McDermott wanted to run. 

We saw Wilks' preference when he took the reigns as it actually started off bad that season, and later I think we ended up finishing in the top 10. 

Right now front wise we make more sense as a 3-4 or 4-3 over / under fronts as a base, and a 2-4 as our nickel package, hopefully the 3-3-5 stuff we saw is tossed, and we get back to more traditional NFL fronts / personnel packages. 

3-4

IDL - Io / McCall / Brown 

Edge - Burns / YGM / Haynes <<< depending on 3-4 or 43

ILB - Shaq / Wilson / Nickel >>> Smith IMO needs to be paired with Shaq, he's our biggest, and most athletic offball LB'er

Corner / SS -  We already know who belongs in these spots, I will they need to stop asking Henderson to cover the #1 WR, get Jaycee out of the nickel spot and let him travel whether it's zone or man to each boundary, rotate Henderson, and Hartsfield as the nickel based on packages / offensive personnel, I think they were asking too much of Henderson. Pretty much all the issues with him occurred vs the number one receiver.

31 minutes ago, Pakmeng said:

Odd timing to say all this now when they had years to write about it 

How could they call out the coach that has that much control, risk losing sources, etc. 

Most of the people that covered the team routinely dropped clues to the disfunction, micro-management, etc. without outright just saying it. 

15 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

The defense wasn't elite, but it was far from the problem, this is an odd move.

But one I approve as I thought firing Rhule made the team better and I want to get the #1 pick at this point, this thankfully makes the team a bit worse again lol

It's not an ODD move at all, Snow has been Matt Rhule's defensive coordinator since Temple, we're talkin almost 10 years'ish including the time here. 

Snow was never going to stay once Rhule was shown the door, not to mention Rhule will want him for any college opportunities that may / will arise. 

I think the requirement to hire coaches with NFL / HC experience was in prep for a day like this, Wilks was a DC and cut his teeth on that side of the ball, and memory serves Al Holcomb has some experience as well. 

We don't need to tear down and rebuild we have premium talent at the MOST important positions on this team aside from QB. 

What this team needs is a QB, and tbf even a rookie doesn't guarantee a change, but it's the natural step. Use the 1st on a QB if high enough, and use the high 2nd to trade back in the second while adding a 3rd and another pick or two in the latter rounds. 

And as far as guys we could trade for value most of them if not all but Burns who IMO is untouchable all have sizeable dead money. 

Solve QB, we have the pieces in place to compete. 

1 hour ago, Krovvy said:

Didn't Tepper personally fly out to meet Rhule?

Yeah, that wasn't on Marty.

They both flew out. 

11 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Can't be. I've been assured that Fitterer is godlike and only held back by Rhule and his staff. 

 

Drafted when Hurney was here...

14 hours ago, ncfan said:

 

Cap is a myth, see Saints, restructures, pushing money as needed. It's not a big deal because next year isn't here yet.