Navy_football

11 minutes ago, strato said:

I would have gone Rattler this year.

Personally I don’t think it would take a number one pick to replace Bryce Young. But it’s Tepper so they would swing for the fences.  I like the idea of at the very least take a Rattler type when you have the chance and just churn the QB room trying to upgrade it with every move. 

If he would have been there at the Panthers' 5th rounder, then maybe. But taking Spencer when the second best TE was still available in the 4th wouldn't have been wise. I agree though. I think Spencer will be a good QB in the NFL. The Saints got a steal. He'll be a starter for them or great draft capital at some point. 

Having a competent backup QB is a blessing and a curse. If your #1 gets injured, then you have a guy that can keep the train on track. But... every time the starter makes a mistake, fans will be calling for the backup. 

But... a good young backup can demand real draft capital when it's time to renew a contract. So, there's that. If he's better than the #1, then you have more options and leverage.

Unfortunately the Panthers aren't in a position to go that route yet. Once the team is brought up to NFL average, then moves like that become a real possibility. Regardless if you're sold on Bryce Young or not, this team has/had too many holes to fill to make luxury draft picks like a good young backup QB. One day. One day. 

Love how this conversation has developed. This is an actual football conversation. 

I think Canales has watched enough tape to formulate a plan for what he wants THIS offense to be. That's the advantage of bringing in young offensive minds. They're progressive and flexible. The draft and free agency was based on Canales' vision for THIS offense. I don't think a lot of what his past offenses looked like will necessarily dictate what this one looks like. 

24 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Really?  I think people will be outraged that we didn’t get a higher draft pick but missed the playoffs.  There’s a lot of 7 win seasons to back this up lol.

Yep. Because the team will be stuck in mediocrity with an average QB - nevermind that would be 5 more wins in his sophomore season. Can't make this stuff up. 

4 hours ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Lol people like you are so silly and the only reason I seem to care to log on to post these days. How can you sit there and say Bryce was the reason Williams hurt his knee on that play. Maybe it's because you dislike Bryce so you are somewhat blind as to what actually happened? Not quite sure but maybe you should get your eyes checked. Williams hurt himself by trying to make a cut after spinning around to make that catch. Pause it at 3:24. Had he landed and ran like normal instead of going to plant his foot in the ground and make a cut he doesn't get hurt. Don't put that on Bryce. That was 100% Williams fault he got injured

I don't know why they won't just admit they don't like Bryce Young. Just admit it. No one will care, but just be honest instead of trying to convince everyone else to feel the way they do. Jeez.

15 hours ago, CPF4LIFE said:

First off...you missed the point of what I said. All I said was the offense could be setup to not have to rely on bryce in the same manner as other qbs if its working. And Yes the rest aren't proven commodities but NEITHER is bryce so I don't understand what you are getting at there. Lastly what is with this questioning of if bryce is liked? Liked how? Personal or football? See thats the problem with fans like you, you are so invested in a individual you respond to any critsicm with "do you like him". My opinion on bryce is strictly football....I DONT KNOW BRYCE PERSONALLY so I don't have anything against him in that regard. Far as football I said from the start I didn't see him as a top nfl Qb and he hasn't shown me anything so far to say I was wrong so based off your question...no. Just like everybody else on here, it's strictly football. Asking if he is liked in that regard, it's clearly no. He hasn't shown enough to be liked on the field. 

 

I interpreted your original reply as the team could have success if the new players and coaches were really good, AND they created an offense that didn't count on the QB being a primary contributor. Because you think Bryce won't be able to hold up his end. I think you confirm that above.

My only point is that I don't see how anyone can say definitively what Bryce Young will be in the league yet, based on his supporting cast from last season. And it seems those that have already decided that Bryce Young is a bust, likely just didn't like him as the pick in the first place. A little context for me... lots of folk here didn't like Cam while he was a Panther either. It had very little to do with him as a talent. And just for the record, I really am not invested in Bryce Young. I didn't want the team to move up for a QB at all in 2023. I thought 2024 would be the year to go for a QB. But when they did, I ordered the QBs as Anthony Richardson, then CJ, then Bryce. The disfunction from the front office, to the playcalling, to the scheme, to the oline and the receivers was just not a good situation. Horrible actually. Asking a rookie to perform with all that adversity is just not realistic to me, at any position let alone QB. So to me, the verdict is still out. I don't know if he can be the guy because the situation he was in last year was set up to fail from the start. In preseason, as soon as I saw the oline couldn't figure out how to even slow down the Jets' pass rush (particularly stunts) and the receivers were locked up like Fort Knox, I knew we were in for a long season. 

5 minutes ago, frankw said:

Guys just keep in mind it's important to separate in this discussion people who have low or not good expectations for the outcome with people who literally want him to fail. There are some people like this. But they are easy to spot. Probably someone like Ickmule would fit then bill. But these people are few in numbers. The majority of fans don't want the worst possible outcome. But you still have to be realistic about the possibilities and the percentages.

Agree. My thing is a lot of posters don't give Bryce any credit. No matter what. And they wait to point out his failures- only. Never acknowledge his positives, only the negatives. That doesn't seem like a person being realistic. That seems like a biased approach. Almost like you actually do want him to fail. I don't understand that approach if you're a Panthers fan. Maybe to prove they were right during the draft? Seems weird to me.

2 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

So do you mind explaining how any of that is not valid?

Didn't say it wasn't. Could be. I don't claim to know based on how bad the entire offense was last year. It seems pretty clear that you're convinced that any success would be in spite of Bryce. Any success would be based on the so called improvements - which most really aren't proven commodities. So back to my original point: do you just not like him? 

3 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

And you didnt listen to anything i said.... typical. 

Which part did I misinterpret? 

As of right now, relying on Bryce could cost people their jobs so its understandable if the coaches and other players are the catalyst for any success.

2 hours ago, Montsta said:

Nice callback! Back when the Panthers were trying to kill motherfugers!

Hardy and dem was some killers for hire! They used to beat the dog ish out of Brees! I loved it. Imagine if he was still on the team in 2015 team.

23 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

I mean truthfully thats not out the question, its already be stated most elite Qbs dont need everything to be great around them to succeed. Let say hypothetically XL lives up to the hype, Sanders shows why he was top TE in draft, Brooks becomes one of the best RBs in the league and the O line is top 5 based off all the money spent. That could be good enough to get you to a Superbowl without needing a QB to carry the team. Plus its already been said we will be a run heavy team so they are trying to take as much pressure off bryce as possible not give him way more responsibility. That clearly didnt work out to well last year and led to another staff overhaul. As of right now, relying on Bryce could cost people their jobs so its understandable if the coaches and other players are the catalyst for any success.

And there you go. Just put your name in the "I just don't like Bryce Young" hat. Nothing wrong with that. You can like or dislike whoever you want. 

So strato has spoken.

Who else is willing to just admit they never liked the guy and nothing he does will ever convince you that he is? If he wins the friggin super bowl, it would be because of the coach and players they put around him.

5 hours ago, amcoolio said:

No Thursday games is fantastic. Injuries go way up, games are closer because of lack of time.. its a huge blessing

So you're saying this is the year Jaycee plays all 17?! 

I'll take it!!!

Yeah, honestly that's a tough schedule. It really is.

So much confirmation bias with you guys. Not even an attempt to be objective. Not even trying. Like the guy said earlier. If you don't like the QB, just say so. Then don't get on the bandwagon if he turns into the guy. No take backs. Line in the sand. 

3 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

Thanks for posting this. I don’t know how many of you guys also visit the Reddit panther sub, but damn Mingo catches so much poo in there, and Bryce gets every excuse. 
 

Seems like inconsistent logic to me that Bryce gets a pass for the team dysfunction, but Mingo is just a bust.

 

I saw inconsistent tape from Mingo, but he had plenty of examples of good route running…showing me he can do it.

 

He was a rookie, and naturally was inconsistent with it. I don’t think we are dealing with Dwayne Jarrett here. I look forward to seeing him develop more consistency…and I hope Bryce can get him the ball if he does. 

I actually agree with this - to a degree. Mingo is not a finished product and his route running did improve as the season progressed. Grace has to be given to any rookie in last year's offense. QB, RB, WR, TE or Oline. Any of those positions would have been set up to fail as a 1st year player in the NFL. Bad scheme, bad playcalling and probably bad coaching (can't say definitely since we weren't at practices).

40 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

When you have to bring up college to defend Young after there is 16 games of tape its probably best to delete the post before hitting submit.   His college play is totally and completely irrelevant at this point.

No it isn't.

If someone says he can't throw X many yards because he didn't do it last year, but he threw it X plus 10 yards in college, that shows he can. He may not have done it in Carolina, but that doesn't mean he can't do it. There is a real possibility that there were extenuating circumstances. These definitive but inaccurate statements are also known as hot takes or gross exaggerations.

11 minutes ago, CRA said:

well, I don't think you can add legit comp.  Not last year or this year.  I mean, Bryce is going to lose that comp in offenses not geared to his skill set.  I think you just let him flame out.  

The Panthers drafted a unicorn and then didn't want to build a unique O for him.  So be it.  Move on after this year. 

Definitely set the wheels in motion if Bryce doesn't show huge improvement this season. But don't draft a subpar prospect just for the sake of drafting a QB. Continue to build the team until a stud is available. Dalton can probably hold down the fort with the o line changes, until the right guy is available in the draft or FA (less likely). 

Ya'll do realize that consensus #1 pick QBs rarely participate in the combine... right?

Nothing to gain. Only to lose. That's not a scammer. That's just good business sense. If I knew a kid that was the consensus #1 pick in the draft, there is no way in heck I'd let him go to the combine. Even a small injury could knock him out of the #1 spot. There just isn't a reason to go. 

19 minutes ago, strato said:

Velocity MPH.

Okay, that’s a number in isolation. what if CJ has a nice 85% effort motion that does what he is looking for?
And Young has to step into things to get even 2 mph behind him? 

I don’t KNOW that about either it is just an example of numbers don’t always tell all, but when I look at Young throw it reminds me of someone like Fran Tarkenton. A throwback non athletic weak armed scrambler for those of you who don’t remember. Had a great career in the old smaller slower but much meaner NFL. Would not today, IMO. 

I think the arm strength questions, are plenty fair. And the eyeball test, it does mean something. Who would take Bryce Young over CJ Stroud or Richardson based on his arm? It is obvious to the naked eye where they stack up.

The eyeball test is subjective. You can say he has a weak arm, I can say his arm is strong (which I'm not). Who has the better "eye" for football velocity?

Bryce doesn't always throw fastballs. Actually he rarely does. But he's thrown enough to show that he has more than adequate velocity. Decision making, trust in his oline, trust in his receivers... needs work. But arm strength is low on the things he needs to improve. Right along with footwork. If that's how he plays, then I'm fine with it. He's shown the ability to throw with adequate velocity and accuracy at very awkard arm angles. So he doesn't need to have stellar footwork to make throws. I could see it helping his timing though. 

12 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Well he's not as strong as the other guys drafted in his draft but has not as weak as being let on. I think the difference in his velocity compared to his piers in the draft was only a couple of mph. Nothing earth shattering to say the least. 

I really don't get this take. Is he in the top .1% of the population like Flacco, Josh Allen, old Cam Newton, Mahomes? Heck no. But he definitely has a better arm than some are giving him credit for. Good enough to win in the NFL. 

Reich was forced into a situation he didn't originally anticipate. Losing DJ Moore was huge. Couple that with the incredible regression of the offensive line (mostly through injury), and he didn't know how to bring the team back. Bryce wasn't good enough to save his job like Cam did for Ron. Hopefully a little stability, flexibility and luck from the injury bug will be in Canales' favor. 

7 hours ago, CRA said:

I mean, we don't even know Canales is really taking a hands on approach. All we really know what the Panther PR machine puts out for us to consume. 

Canales frankly shouldn't have time to really work with Bryce Young much.  He is a first year HC with an entire team to figure out. 

Usually I'd agree with you 100%. HC needs to oversee everything. That's why I didn't like Reich calling plays last season - that and he wasn't very good at it. 

But in this case, it's necessary. It's very important that Bryce and the offense get off early. Canales acknowledged how important it was to bring Evero back. He can almost take his hands off the defense and let Evero cook. They even brought in some players that have played for Evero in the past, setting the defense up as more prepared to roll with less changes and playbook teaching than normal for a new HC. Consistency is important for just that reason. It's difficult to learn a new playbook with limited practices - offensively and defensively. 

2 hours ago, strato said:

So okay according to you, and to be fair, others too, the state of affairs is:

he couldn’t have done any better last year because of all the horrible players and coaches that didn’t do their jobs. 

And

People that talk about him not doing a good job, even though he was historically bad, are ruining it for his fans.

And top it off with: real fans know what good is, and the doubters don't.  Got it.

 

 

No strato. He definitely COULD have made more plays, but asking a rookie QB to lead such a bad supporting cast is not realistic. And I think Bryce was overthinking out there. He didn't trust his team mates. He didn't trust the playcalling. He didn't look prepared. The WRs didn't look prepared. The oline didn't look prepared. It's ridiculous they couldn't figure out how to block a stunt or delayed blitz all season. No rookie would have been successful in this offense last season. No rookie QB, no rookie WR, no rookie olineman, no rookie RB. Not just Bryce. No Rookie would have looked competent when the vets aren't at least NFL average. Couple that with bad coaching, and ... impossible. Not saying Bryce is the answer. Saying we don't know. And the hot takes most are on here making about him are just not true. That or just gross exaggerations. 

2 hours ago, CRA said:

I don't think there is anyway Bryce Young can stink....and remain the starting QB past this year.  NFL history of late strongly goes against that.  Then you got Tepper as the ice cream on top. 

Agree. I think I said that. If he regresseds and is unplayable, he'll sit. If he's at least "ok" he'll get all season and some of 2025.