Navy_football

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

I would say in terms of the interior as much as competent Guards were a need Center was the biggest hindrance and that had been an issue well before Bryce's rookie year. Go back and look at who Darnold had to work with in 2021 and 2022 on the interior. Paradis Tecklenburg Elflein Cam Erving Michael Jordan (the other one) and Bradley Bozeman. My goodness.

Paradis and Bozeman. Forgot about those dudes. Trauma response? Probably. 

15 minutes ago, frankw said:

Certainly it needed to be addressed but can we be honest with one another and acknowledge that the urgency to address it by any means necessary was due to the org needing to save face for how poorly their #1 overall pick performed?

Only thing to do from here is learn from the experience and begin building a complete roster methodically. Heavy emphasis on the word complete.

Agree. They absolutely need to build a more complete roster. But let's also acknowledge that they had the worst pass blocking interior oline in the NFL, and a receiving group highlighted by a 33 years old possession receiver. Those areas needed to be addressed for whoever you put back there.

But agree with their approach after the 2023 season. You should do everything in your power to give the #1 pick in the draft every opportunity to succeed (maybe not panic spend for OGs). Particularly if you mortgage the farm to go up and get him. Not sure if it was saving face as much as improving a very bad roster. Now do I think they should have gone up to get Bryce (or CJ or anyone) in 2023? Heck no. 

12 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

Buffalo has a much worse roster than Carolina's (besides the QB, obviously). Swap BY and JA and the Panthers go 14-3 and the Bills go 4-13.

Two disgruntled AFC QB's in Burrow and Allen, but there is no way those teams let those players go. You never know, though. I'd easily give 3 first round picks for either

You could be right but which position groups are better in Carolina? Maybe secondary with the upgraded version of Mike Jackson? Maybe WRs at the end of the season?

DBs - CAR close

ILBs - BUF not close

DL - BUF close. CAR advantage interior DL. BUF advantage pass rushers

Receivers - CAR really close. CAR WR at the end of season with Jalen Coker - not before. BUF TEs by a large margin.

RBs - BUF not close

OL - BUF not close

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

Therein lies the problem. Doing so has propelled us to the most expensive group in the league. And if we hadn't signed them in all likelihood the company line would be that our QB needs better protection.

But the argument could be made that without those signings we could have upgraded the defense much more. $153 million is no chump change.

I hear you. But I 100% agree the oline needed to be improved from 2023. That was a complete disaster. They were gonna get someone killed out there. Heck, Dalton had a great game against Seattle that year, but there's no way he could have lasted a season behind that group. Seattle wasn't even particularly good and they had several HUGE hits on him the entire game. 

Now did Dan need to go out and spend the farm on OGs? That was probably a bit of an overreaction. Time to start replacing that whole group with draft picks. None of them are worth the money they're being paid. Not saying they aren't good players. Just that they're all overpaid. Sans whoever we march out there at Center. 

2 hours ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

It's still CJ by a wide margin.  BY has closed the gap, but the gap is still considerably large.  Let's not forget CJ was without basically ALL of his weapons in this last game against the Patriots, and I'm pretty sure he had an injury.  BY lost to that same Pats team by like 40 points.  In fairness, a good bit of that was due to the defense.  That said, BY was completely incapable of keeping us in the game.  Mistake free football does not always equal good football.  He still had a bad game.

I don't know... Jayden Higgins, Jaylin Noel, Xavier Hutchinson, Christian Kirk and Dalton Schultz aren't bad. I'd definitely take that over Carolina's group. We have a few good young individuals, but no real veteran presence. That squad is gonna be bonkers, particularly when Nico and Tank return. 

I think the last 2 seasons have been good examples of why you don't spend heavy in FA. Lewis and Hunt are good players, but they certainly haven't transformed the oline into the juggernaut we thought it'd be. They're ok. Wharton, Patrick Jones and Bobby Brown have been good in spots. But they didn't transform the Dline into some unmovable force. And all of the above have been bitten by the injury bug. Maybe a pass rush specialist for 3rd downs only. That seems to be the biggest problem with the defense - getting off the field on 3rd down, no matter the distance. Well that and the DC backing the secondary 10 yards past the first down marker. Bring in a starter level ILB and a pass rush specialist on defense. Bring in a speed WR on offense and quality oline depth, particularly interior oline. Draft BPA. Every position is open. Even QB. Hate to put all our eggs into the Hendrickson basket, forego all the other needs, and then he gets injured. I agree he could make the team better, but I'm the guy that would rather have two or three 7s, than one 10. 

1 hour ago, strato said:

I owe you an apology for this one. I read what lead up to that comment and see the context that I missed.
 

 On its own, it could be taken exactly how I took it, But that wasn’t the case, it was my mistake.  

Respect!

22 minutes ago, PanthersNCSU said:

Not going anywhere in '26, but 2027 is the out spot. Save 14 mil in '27, 18 mil in '28. 

The contracts are big, but there's outs with him and Lewis both, with Lewis's out starting this year if you want to save 9 mil (but, no). Tillis did his job on these and gave flexibility. Biggest issue right now is who are we replacing them with, which means the '26 and '27 drafts better have some legit OL picks. 

They can realistically pick up future interior linemen on day 3. They have 1 pick in the 4th and 2 picks in the 5th. Prime time to pick up quality drops at interior oline. Grab another starter level guard or two in FA. Like old vets on a one year deal. 

4 hours ago, strato said:

If you can’t see it, that is on you.  
 

You can know what you meant, and understand that maybe you could have expressed yourself in a way that made it clearer.  
You could see how it could be interpreted the way I took it.
Or you don’t want to acknowledge it, as it appears is happening. 
See that or don’t, I don’t give a poo. 

Nah it's really all on you. So I should have said I know Ravens and Cowboys fans that want to get rid of their QBs, but... just in case you think I'm saying our QB is as good as them, I'm not. But just in case you do. I'm not. Even though I didn't say he is or even alluded to it. Oh and just in case, I don't think Dalton is better either. But I want you to know just in case you think that's what I meant. 

That doesn't even make sense. And if you can't see that you're looking for reasons to be confrontational, then I give even less poo. Enjoy the team or be in your feelings all the time. That's on you. Only you. 

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I don't believe you 

Which part? The part that you're a douche, or the part that half of you are A holes?

14 hours ago, strato said:

Maybe you should have said that. You are here defending Bryce all the time. It reads like it reads.  
I thought it was out of character but it definitely could have been meant exactly like I took it.
And there are people here that think that way. See it all the time. 

I mean, as a fan of those players’ teams I could easily say those guys are way overpaid especially Dax, for the success he brings them. The Cowboys under achieve annually. 

Lamar for all his ability, is hampering them financially and is now insinuating himself into coach firing and hiring. I can see why some people are turned off after years of regular season flash followed by playoff meh. Made it to one AFCCG but his numbers in the tournament are not very good. 
 

I guess I am overall disillusioned with the current NFL model of teams paying these guys so much money and killing their flexibility to add pieces. 
 

 

 

So me saying I know fans that want to get rid of Lamar and Dak should be interpreted as I think Bryce is as good as them? Okie dokie. 

14 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

LOL I am sure you know "several" Ravens fans that want to move on from a multiple MVP qb.   Quit your fuging lying

Dude, you are such a douche. I mean wow!

I live near Baltimore and date someone that lives there so I interact with their fans pretty often. You all are the only Panthers fans I ever get to talk to. And half of you are A holes. Yes, I mean you. 

51 minutes ago, csx said:

Exactly half of the NFL has play calling head coaches. I dint know why people try to portray it as an oddity. He will improve or he will get replaced. They aren't changing playcaller so I wouldn't waste any energy on it.

Is that true? Wow. Didn't think it was that many. But how many were never HCs before and only had 1 season of calling plays?

30 minutes ago, strato said:

So you are putting Bryce on the Dax and Lamar level?
As if someone wanting to replace Bryce is the same? 

Really? 
 

 

Come on man. You're trying too hard. The point was if fans of teams with those much better QBs want to get rid of them, then of course there are Carolina fans that would want to get rid of Bryce. I was genuinely surprised by that, but no one in the world would put Bryce Young on the same level of Lamar or Dak.

There really are only a couple of teams that don't have fans that want to replace their QB.

59 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I'm indifferent to it. I would rather they draft a guard over paying him a bunch of money to get his ass handed to him by better defenses.

Agree. Rather see a young guy get his tail handed to him than an old vet. At least there's hope with the youngster. 

I know several Ravens fans that want to replace Lamar Jackson. Same with Cowboys fans and Dak. Par for the course. 

31 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I mean, at the end of the day Canales was hired for his offense and play calling... and because no one more qualified would consider the job. If we think he needs a traditional OC then we should probably just bite the bullet and fire him.

Not sure I agree with this. I think he is a pretty good culture guy. And that's really what a HC does more than anything else. That and in-game decisions and general direction. 

Unfortunately, he isn't experienced enough to call plays and make HC decisions in the flow of the game. He leans a lot on others for their input because he's focused on the offense and adjustments. But he can't focus completely on the offense because he has HC decisions to make. My opinion is he needs to give up OC duties. Just pay McDaniel whatever he wants and be done with it. 

12 hours ago, cranky said:

I agree that it is disapponting that nothing went their way on the first three downs and I do not know if it's because of the play calling, the pressure on Bryce or Bryce just missed them. I just think the last call was a good call. Horn got open and the pass was there. He just dropped it. Terrible time for his first drop of the season but again, he had made a 4th down catch earlier so there was no reason to think he couldn't scatch it. 

Horn was open on the first play but Bryce was trying to get the ball to Coker.

First play the Rams were in cover 1 with a robber that did a great job of taking Coker and TMac away. Pressure got to the QB late as Moton was pushed on top of Bryce and he ended up throwing it away. Horn was open early underneath. Exactly what you're looking for here and he should have thrown to Horn. Maybe could have had Coker or TMac run the dig there instead, because the robber played both their routes perfectly taking them out of the equation. Throw away. 

Second play the Rams are in cover 3. Yosh gives up immediate pressure. Coker and TMac were open but Bryce was already escaping the pocket and immediately turned into a scramble drill. No WR got open after that. So had to throw the ball away.

Third play the Rams were back into Cover 1 with the robber. Ball is thrown to Horn but he was held by his defender and couldn't get to the ball. Perfect pass. Perfect. DPI or defensive holding should have been called. 

Fourth play the Rams are back in Cover 1 no robber this time. TMac and Coker are running deep routes again. Jimmy pops open on the dig again with his man trailing. It's the right read. Good pass. Not perfect, but plenty good enough. Horn  loses focus and drops it. 

No one was really schemed open in any of those plays. The second play was the only one that TMac and Coker were open, but the immediate pressure took the QB off his spot where he had to escape the pocket. I really don't know when he could have forced it to Coker or TMac. Maybe the last play. Deep safety was shading TMac. Coker had 1 on 1 running a fly, but the CB stayed on top the entire time. Maybe a deep back shoulder attempt. But Jimmy was open for the first. 

1 hour ago, cranky said:

Wait, you would rather have Bryce throw a pick than throw a catchable ball to a receiver who dropped it because he was a rookie. That is some strange logic there.

 

I'm not even going to argue with that. But if Bryce throws a pick forcing it to TMac there with Horn running open underneath... 

Just realize that some folk will never like this kid. Always finding his fault if even remotely possible. 

Blaming the placement of that pass would be like blaming Stafford for the Puka drop earlier in the game. I mean it hit him in the helmet. He should have thrown it to his chest.

34 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

This is a drop.

Edit: it doesn't matter if it's the most perfectest throw, this is catchable. Or it looked like it live and looks like it here.

Honestly don't think it could have been much better now that I look at it. Receiver had time to gather himself and decide how he wanted to catch it, and then proceeded to let it go through his hands. He could have come back to it, he could have slid and bodied it, he could have caught it with fingers pointed down, so many options. I mean the QB could have put it out in front of him and maybe he would have had to speed up, reach out away from his body, dive, or jump for it. None of that. Just slow down and catch the ball. 

1 minute ago, strato said:

Don’t know why but those videos won’t play on my iPad. I did get to see the play. 
And what you are talking about is what I expected to see more of with XL. Bryce just isn’t the passer over to the sidelines deep that Stafford is. Inaccurate a lot. Between XL’s sideline gaffs and the tendency to get the pass too near being OB or just OB it definitely doesn’t work like I hoped.  

Maybe because it's Windows 11. 

Yeah XL doesn't have enough awareness to make that play. Even if he caught it, he would have stepped or jumped out of bounds. My theory is that XL is used to more zip on passes. Bryce throws with touch. Very different than what he's used to from Spencer. 

2 hours ago, frankw said:

If Cam Newton had thrown a pass like that at the receivers knees with the game on the line in the playoffs we'd be hearing about it all offseason and it damn sure wouldn't matter that the WR was a rookie.

No standards here anymore.

frank, that ball was very catchable where it hit his hands. I don't even think he bent at waist until after he dropped it. He actually slows his pace to position himself to catch the ball. That will never be a pass I'd blame on the QB.  

3 hours ago, strato said:

Well I never played WR but a ball at my knees is not a gimme for me. So I figured same for them. I am not never wrong. 
And yeah that Rams TD, throw and catch was pretty perfect. You can’t hardly defend that. 

It was a great play, but a better catch than throw. The TE boxes out Moehrig for position. Jumps to catch the ball. Catches it and turns 180 degrees while he's still in the air. Comes down and toe taps to stay in bounds and lunges for the goal post. That first part where he boxes out Moehrig for the ball is huge. If he doesn't do that and simply fades back to catch the ball (this is why Bryce doesn't trust XL), then Moehrig likely undercuts the pass for a break up or INT. Stafford trusts his receivers to make plays for him. Here I slowed it down so you can see it. Great play but amazing catch and score by the TE. 

10 hours ago, strato said:

This drop thing… really debatable. Depends on your perspective. That last ball was a tough catch that didn’t get caught. I don’t know that I would call it all on Horn as if it hit him perfectly and he blew it. 

No offense, I really am not being confrontational here. But I don't think any WR in the NFL or college or even high school would have defined that as a tough catch. If you can only catch a ball that is perfectly passed then you're not a WR? You're an athlete that goes out for passes. The TD winning catch by the Rams TE was exponentially more difficult with many more variables involved. All Jimmy had to do was catch a ball that was within the frame of his body. I think he catches that 19 out of 20 times. But that was the 1 out of 20 he didn't. 

Final Drive:

First play Bryce misses an open Jimmy Horn in the middle of the field. It would have easily moved the sticks and taken very little time off the clock. He was probably the only WR open on that play, but it's right in front of you. Gotta see that one. And Jimmy has the fresh legs on that drive. 

Second play there was potential but the protection broke down before guys even got to the top of their routes. WRs really gave up on the play in the scramble drill though. I think Coker and TMac were exhausted. 

On the 3rd play that was a perfectly thrown ball to Jimmy Horn. The defender has an obvious pass interference at the top of the route to knock him off path. If that contact doesn't happen, that would have been a big play. It drops perfectly in his hands similar to the TD pass to Coker. And they were in man, so he would have had room to run. Refs missed that one. You could even see the defender kind of waiting for the flag that never came. He knew it too. 

The last play was 100% on Jimmy. You see him actually set up to catch the ball out in front with his hands. Little shuffle in there to time it just like he wanted it. Could have just come back to the ball, as there was very little zip on that pass. I think Bryce kind of aimed it instead of just letting it rip and it died on him downfield. Or as others suggested just slide and body catch it to make sure you don't miss it. He's young and hadn't caught a pass all game. Probably would have been better if Coker was in that spot. 

This is just a young team. I really think they'll be fine next season. Jimmy can be that guy. He gets separation on crossing routes every time. Guys just can't keep up with him. Gain a little trust and chemistry with Young and he can get in the offense. Not real hopeful for XL. Come on dude. We're counting on you.