Navy_football

Final Drive:

First play Bryce misses an open Jimmy Horn in the middle of the field. It would have easily moved the sticks and taken very little time off the clock. He was probably the only WR open on that play, but it's right in front of you. Gotta see that one. And Jimmy has the fresh legs on that drive. 

Second play there was potential but the protection broke down before guys even got to the top of their routes. WRs really gave up on the play in the scramble drill though. I think Coker and TMac were exhausted. 

On the 3rd play that was a perfectly thrown ball to Jimmy Horn. The defender has an obvious pass interference at the top of the route to knock him off path. If that contact doesn't happen, that would have been a big play. It drops perfectly in his hands similar to the TD pass to Coker. And they were in man, so he would have had room to run. Refs missed that one. You could even see the defender kind of waiting for the flag that never came. He knew it too. 

The last play was 100% on Jimmy. You see him actually set up to catch the ball out in front with his hands. Little shuffle in there to time it just like he wanted it. Could have just come back to the ball, as there was very little zip on that pass. I think Bryce kind of aimed it instead of just letting it rip and it died on him downfield. Or as others suggested just slide and body catch it to make sure you don't miss it. He's young and hadn't caught a pass all game. Probably would have been better if Coker was in that spot. 

This is just a young team. I really think they'll be fine next season. Jimmy can be that guy. He gets separation on crossing routes every time. Guys just can't keep up with him. Gain a little trust and chemistry with Young and he can get in the offense. Not real hopeful for XL. Come on dude. We're counting on you. 

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

that schedule next year is....rough

obviously we've still got games to play and the draft and FA but my lord. 

You never know. Panthers played 7 playoff teams this season. I only see 6 for next season.

Wait... there are people blaming this game on Bryce right now?

Came here expecting folk to say we may have found our franchise QB. But, the huddle gonna huddle. Peace out.

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

40s measure how fast your run a 40.   Antonio Brown had a poo 40

Jameson is football fast.  I don’t think MHJ is as fast on a football field as Jameson

Agree. A forty time isn't an end all, but it is a data point used to confirm the eye test. Though to be honest, I've seen guys train for it and bring their times down .2 seconds just with technique. Like in a matter of weeks!

Based on the eye test, Jameson Williams, Njigba and MHJ are alot faster than our receivers. That's ok to say. Doesn't mean they're better, just that they are faster. And defenders/defenses will play them differently because of it. 

16 minutes ago, CRA said:

This is also the dink and dunk era.  Deep ball era featured tons of 4.5 guys.  

Heck Bolden and Fitzgerald were both 4.6+ 40 guys.   Warner went deep. That was historical offense.  Brandon Marshall.  Demayrius Thomas.  Dez.   Lots of “slow” WRs get vertical.  It just takes a QB

There is a difference between a jump ball guy and a guy that blows the cover off of a defense. One you play tight (press if you can or at least get a hand on him) and the other you give a lot of cushion to. That or keep a safety over the top. 

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

AI is awesome.  It often performs like it is a mentally handicapped person at times.   It why there is always the disclaimer the info might be wrong and it essentially makes poo up 

Agree and I definitely understand that.

Do you think Jameson Williams or MHJ really run 4.5 or higher forty times? 

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Says the guy that has zero idea what the technology he is "using" is even good at or how it works. 

You act like you know me. Who am I? What do I know? What do I do?

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I do because I literally actually understand how a LLM works, especially in relation to a fuging search engine. You very clearly don't, which isn't even remotely surprising.

Let me guess, you are one of the people that talks to Grok or ChatGPT or whatever AI tool that you have no clue how to use properly all day, aren't you?

Nope. Just when I need to call out stupid ish from stupid folk. 

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

You do realize that it's very often completely fuging wrong because it parses the top few Google selected results that might differ, be from completely ridiculous sources or just flat out be wrong, right?

Learn technology, dipshit.

You ignorant MOFO. You actually think you're smarter than AI? You actually think because you took 30 minutes to find info, running around multiple sites, when I let technology do it for me makes you smart and me a dipshit? You're dumber than I thought. 

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Buddy, I went through all 32 rosters, looked at production in 2025(hence why your assertion of who was or wasn't starters on the 49ers is laughable), looked at the NFL's official combine site and if they didn't run at the combine found at least 2-3 sources for each "Pro Day" and if that wasn't available I checked recruiting sites for HS 40 times.

How about you don't be a lazy fug and go look them up yourself instead of asking AI. 

That basically tells me you have zero idea what you are talking about. You even admit it.

You do realize that AI doesn't "make numbers up" right? Everything listed there likely came from a Google search of info that was condensed into a smaller representation. 

Don't be an old fug and get with the times. If you're trying to sell Jameson Williams as a 4.5 guy, then you have no earthly clue what you're talking about. Literally just making ish up. 

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I quite literally did not use AI, I hate that poo. LLM's are for nitwits who can't search.

You have zero idea what you are talking about.

Roger that. Site your references then. Or did you just make up some numbers and thought I'd say ok?

I misread you comment. My bad. I meant All of my results were from AI. 

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, I gave you the available numbers, you can choose to believe them or not. I can also tell you that TMac is actually a 4.2 guy but it doesn't make it any more true.

Your numbers aren't correct. All AI generated:

1. you admit both AJ and Devonta are sub 4.5 guys.

2. Jaxon Smith-Njigba's unofficial 40-yard dash time was 4.48 seconds at his 2023 Ohio State Pro Day, though some scouts clocked him slightly faster (around 4.46-4.52), with a goal of 4.47, showcasing his agility despite not running at the NFL Combine. He excelled in short-area quickness drills, with a 6.57-second 3-cone drill and 3.93-second 20-yard shuttle. 

3. Marvin Harrison Jr.'s 40-yard dash time is often reported in the low 4.4-second range, with specific unofficial times varying from 4.39 to 4.49 seconds, though he didn't officially run at the 2024 NFL Combine, with reports based on his impressive game speed and pro day figures suggesting exceptional speed for his size. He himself aimed for the high 4.3s, and scouts were buzzing about his elite speed, with some sources citing a 4.42 or even a faster 4.39 from other sources.  

4. Bourne and Jennings are the 3 and 4 in SF. They were not slated as 1 and 2 before injuries.

Ricky Pearsall ran an official 4.41-second 40-yard dash at the 2024 NFL Scouting Combine, showcasing impressive speed and athleticism that contributed to his first-round selection by the San Francisco 49ers. 

Brandon Aiyuk ran a 4.50-second 40-yard dash at the 2020 NFL Scouting Combine, though his team and coaches noted he played faster in pads and his time was impacted by a recent core muscle surgery, with some believing his true speed was better than that number suggested, similar to how Jerry Rice played faster than his combine time. Ran a 4.5 after core muscle surgery. He's definitely a sub 4.5 guy.  

5. Agree with Adams and Puka. They are the only other example. Really good frigging example for your argument. But the only ones. 

6. Jameson Williams is a speed demon. No way he runs more than a 4.4.

52 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

There aren't many. Here are the close and maybes.

Eagles: AJ Brown was a 4.49 guy and DeVonta Smith was supposedly a high 4.4 guy as a sophomore(he didn't run at the combine or his Pro Day, so this is going to be sketchy in general). 

Lions: Williams didn't run the 40(ACL injury, although he is likely a sub 4.5 guy on the eye test) and St. Brown was a 4.51 guy.

Seahawks: Smith-Njigba was a 4.5-4.55 guy(didn't run at the combine, numbers from stopwatches at pro day) and Cooper Kupp ran a 4.62.

Rams: Adams was a 4.56 and Nacua was a 4.57.

49ers: Jennings was a 4.72 and Bourne was a 4.68.

Cardinals: Wilson was a 4.62 and Harrison Jr. is a complete question. The last recorded 40 time was in HS at 4.6. Likely he is faster than that but it's unknown how much.

 

AJ Brown and Devonta Smith are both sub 4.5 guys. 

Williams is definitely a speed receiver and sub 4.5 guy.

Smith-Njigba is a sub 4.5 guy.

I agree Adams and Puka are not sub 4.5 guys. And they are absolute monsters on the field. Great example. 

Bourne and Jennings are not the two best receivers in San Fran. It's Aiyuk and Ricky Pearsall. Bourne and Jennings only got so much run because of injuries. Aiyuk and Pearsall are sub 4.5 guys. 

MHJ is definitely a sub 4.5 guy. 

17 minutes ago, CRA said:

Bryce does it schemed up in very select areas of the field.  Which in no way shape or form has anything to do with a naturally aggressive downfield thrower 

Moose wasn’t considerable faster.  His top end speed was always questioned and was a possession WR….with same type fluff day 40 as Tmac.  Are we now trying to act like Mushin was a blazer in the name of defending Bryce? 

What are you even talking about? You said Delhomme made deep passes to Muhsin. I said Young made deep passes to TMac and Coker. I never once said Muhsin was some blazer, but he did have more speed than TMac and Coker are. He also had a speed guy on the other side of the field to help open things up for him. Just because I'm not crapping on Bryce doesn't mean I'm defending him. 

7 minutes ago, strato said:

There are a few guys on that list that are interesting to me, half have the makes bonehead plays but really talented downside.  
 

 I don’t know why because I am not a fan  but when I saw Murray I had a good feeling. If he didn’t have the no film watching rep he has I’d say bring him in.

Play backyard ball for a year or two. He can sling it and can get away from people a lot better than what we have.

There are a few others we’ll have plenty of time coming up to consider them. 

Yeah Murray is a freak! Small, fast and crazy arm talent. Doubt he'd come here for peanuts though. 

1 minute ago, CRA said:

That also the #1 offense in the NFL.  And before DeVante they were lighting folks up with Puca and Kupp. 

top of the NFL receiving books is full of 4.5 guys

Cupp is another 100 skill level player. If we think TMac and Coker are on that level right now, then that's just not being honest. And the Rams have always had a blazer out there that teams had to back up for. We have XL. But I agree, Bryce needs to take more shots deep. 

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

Jake Delhomme threw it over people heads with freaking Mushin Muhammad.  It happened because Jake was an aggressive downfield passer. 

NFL history is full of non-Tyreek Hill’s who got vertical.  

Right... and Bryce Young has thrown it over defenders' heads with a rookie TMac and a 2nd year Coker. Both considerably slower than Muhsin.

Speed matters. It's not always running past people straight down the field. A guy that can run routes and then blow by you is dangerous and will always need to be accounted for - usually with more than one DB. 

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Oh, oh. I see what you are saying. Yeah but not all of those were draft for draft replacements. Jones was a dumpster dive. The overall point I was making is that it is becoming more common to see this quick pivots as people realize their mistakes. It happens with a lot of busts historically at QB. 

IDK about "most teams" have fast, capable WR's. It's a mixed bag across the league. There are the Hopkins, Evans, etc that aren't sub-4.5 guys and are still star players.

Yeah. Find me another team in the NFL where their 2 best WRs run mid 4.5s. Speed ain't everything, but let's not act like it doesn't matter in coverage. The narrative has been that defenses creep up because Bryce can't throw over their heads. Nah, it's because our receivers are slow. Unless you want to count XL, Mingo and DJ Chark. But then that whole skill thing is thrown out the window. 

Edit: Actually the Rams don't have speed with Puka and Devante. But their skill levels are some of the best the league has seen. That's the only other team I can think of. 

8 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

 Canales needs to have him do our sneaks. Its a huge disadvantage to have a qb that cant sneak it. 

I agree. Prove that he can't do it or just let him have at it. Can't keep trying to protect him. I mean this is football. 

3 hours ago, electro's horse said:

Count the linebackers again 

Yeah I can't tell who's a LB from that still. 

Okay researched the numbers. #42 and #7 are LBs dropping back into coverage. Not sure who the free rusher is. They sent 4 guys against 5 offensive linemen and ended up with a free rusher. That's friggin insane. 

1 minute ago, Shotgun said:

 Has Young ever got a 1st down with a qb sneak? 

Yes on his only attempt.

2 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

I really, really agree with this. Why do you have a big, athletic guy with reach competing with the sidelines when he could do a better job in the center of the field or running the opposite seam to the TE?

 

That and a lack of situational awareness there. He's just better when he has room to operate and not have to think about too many things at once. Catch the ball, then run to daylight. Keep it simple and plain.

9 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Good to see merit winning out here.

Maybe XL roars back or finds him a place in the third WR spot.

He's got some serious competition for it though with Horn, Jr. and Tremayne. And you can't tell me that David Moore doesn't know how to fight and compete for a roster spot. 

Work, man. Woulda been easier for him out of the gate rather than here at the end of the season.

If Moore is back, XL will drop to 4th and backup to Coker. Probably best for now that'll give him favorable match ups inside the numbers. Keep that dude away from the sidelines. 

Pretty sure Joe Flacco played his 5th year without an extension in place. I think they tried to lowball him and he bet on himself. It has happened before but that one comes to mind since he won a Super Bowl with the Ravens. 

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Buddy, look at the litany of horrific draft mistakes that were made from that era. Assuming a "no-brainer" pick is made by us is pure insanity. There is a reason Fitterer is far and away the worst GM this franchise has ever had.

I am confused about the bolded statement. What do you mean "find a top 6 draft pick for cheap" versus "paying too much for a 3rd rounder." These seem to be incongruent statements. 

I am very sure about Bryce because he has pretty conclusively proven what he is and what his limitations will always be. I don't think his mindset will ever change enough to fix that.

We do have a couple of sub 4.5 WR's. Horn Jr. and.....lol....XL. This is why I don't get too hyperfocused on 40 times. Doesn't mean I don't want speedsters but if you look at the top 5 40 time guys at every combine you don't that often see them being top WR's. 

The QB replacements you named were #6 in the draft, #1, #1 and Mr. Irrelevant. i just ignored Mr. Irrelevant as he's an outlier to ever even make a team. Malik was a 3rd rounder and I wouldn't pay a lot of money to him. I'd probably be more open to the higher drafted guy that has shown me something in his career. And if Bryce earns a top 5 (or #1) pick, then that should be in play for his replacement. 

As for WRs, I agree. Speed doesn't mean good. Most teams have a good player like Thielen and Moore that can also run sub 4.5. That isn't the fastest guy by any stretch but it's fast enough to pressure a DB if he's a good route runner. A good CB will just sit on a guy that runs a 4.57. He ain't worried about him running by him. Horn might be a guy but he can't get on the field. XL? Well. I'm not hopeful for my fellow South Carolinian.