Navy_football

1 minute ago, ImfromClayton said:

I guess I see the game similarly to PFF, because I was texting my GC all game long about how bad the TE's were. It's a massive hole on our roster. All three have had at least one game where they looked like a pro bowler, but the week to week has been really poor.  Additionally, Corbett continues to struggle. He seems like a great dude, but I think that experiment has run its course. Ick with a really bad game, but he's been good this season. 

Defensively man, no pass rush and no ILB. The good news is the holes on our roster are clear and evident to everyone. I still hope we go BPA in the first. We're going to have to start paying some of our guys rather than free agents with the cap money. 

Yeah we're paying too much for offensive guards. That was never a long term approach. I expect some changes by 2027. I don't think the pass rush is as bad as it seems on paper. If Evero would keep Big Bobby at NT with Derrick and Robinson on either side, they'll get enough push on passing plays to allow Edge rushers to make plays. 

19 hours ago, Jmac said:

How would you rate this season compared to last year? Curious to see what the hive mind has to say. Did they take a step foward or not? Did Bryce improve? The coaching staff? If they sh#t the bed the remainder of the season was it any improvement?

Huge improvement! Defense alone is enough to call it that. Big step forward with such a young team and so many new faces. That usually takes time. Bryce hasn't really improved from the end of last season. Took him 12 games to finally throw the ball deep. Canales is... better. Love his aggressive style of playcalling. Still takes too long to make the right decision regarding personnel. But he seems to have a plan for everyone on the field. Will it work is yet to be seen - looking at you XL. Evero is inconsistent and too conservative. I just really don't like his defensive philosophy, but the defense is much improved. Players or coaching? They're still improved so have to give him that. 

11 hours ago, OneBadCat said:

I didn’t hate the decision as much as I hated the play call. It was half a yard. Bryce could have got that. 

Unpopular opinion but he really could have gotten it. The line got enough of an initial push. Chuba jump cutting to the wrong hole instead of lowering his head allowed the defense to recover. That was on Chuba. 

20 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Stepping into the pocket on the two screenshots you have of the Saints is gonna get Shough's head knocked off. Notice the C absolutely getting mauled right in front of Shough. Ikey is losing, but that guy already lost.

Nah, Chase is still pushing Ickey back when he tackles Bryce. Stepping up in the pocket is not a plausible option for either. It's really about whether or not they can escape the pocket. So you think there's room to escape in the first, but not in the other two? Chase is on top of Bryce when he sees it. He'd have to slip away and out run Chase from a standstill. Not realistic. Brown and Brown are beating their guys directly in front of the QB. Shough has paths to escape if he wants to. Even get positive yards. But he doesn't.

The point is not that Bryce is better than Shough, or that he has a worse situation here. You could do this with any QB in the NFL. I'm just showing that when an offensive lineman gets beat this badly, the defender gets to you pretty dang fast. Either QB probably had a quarter of a second to make a decision. Heck, I'd argue that Shough had closer to a second with it being DTs instead of an Edge rusher. 

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

You act like we gave Cam Newton the highest paid OL in the league and back to back first round WR's including one #8 overall for the first time in franchise history.

Give Bryce Young Byron Bell on his left and Nate Chandler on his right and Ted Ginn out there dropping passes that hit both his hands multiple times in the same drive. And for good measure give him Corey Brown instead of Jalen Coker. Just win baby.

We gave Cam the highest paid LT this team has ever had. That didn't work out so well did it? Doesn't matter how much they're paid or where they were drafted. Can they play? Our #8 ROOKIE WR is consistently being outplayed by our UDFA 2nd year WR. 

And... Ted Ginn's speed changed the way defenses played Carolina. No CB in the NFL could run with him. Whether he caught it or not, you had to honor that fact. That's his signifigance.

And Corey Brown ran a friggin 4.37 at the combine. What did our current WRs run? Just saying.

6 minutes ago, Waldo said:

There is a point in the video it's clear he sees the pressure and decides to start backpeddling right into it vs stepping up and away from it. Watch it, it's obvious because there is a pause before he makes that choice to keep dropping regardless. That sure looks like it's on Bryce. It's not even an attack but just the obvious truth. 

No he didn't. He was looking to the right the entire time. When he realized Chase was on him, he braced for impact and protected the ball. 

So which do you think is more egregious? Not stepping up into this:

Or not stepping up into this:Or this:

Those were back-to-back redzone sacks taken by Shough Sunday. 

So has BY ever failed on a QB sneak? Pretty sure he's batting a thousand on them. But if you don't want him to sneak it, then let someone else do it. You don't take it out of your playbook because you think your QB is too small. That's incredibly short sighted and lacks any form of creativity. 

16 minutes ago, frankw said:

If you think Icky in his prime is bad let's give Bryce Young prime Byron Bell and tell him to win with that.

Until then. The whining needs to stop.

1 minute ago, Navy_football said:

See what I mean. Did I say Ickey was bad? Did you read anything even remotely saying that in my post? I said I love Ickey but he got beat on THAT play and gave up the sack on THAT play. THAT play was not on the QB. THAT play was on the LT. 

And further more, give Bryce Jordan Gross, Ryan Kalil, Steve Smith, Greg Olsen and Tedd Ginn. Until then. The bitching needs to stop. 

See how that sounds?

12 minutes ago, frankw said:

If you think Icky in his prime is bad let's give Bryce Young prime Byron Bell and tell him to win with that.

Until then. The whining needs to stop.

See what I mean. Did I say Ickey was bad? Did you read anything even remotely saying that in my post? I said I love Ickey but he got beat on THAT play and gave up the sack on THAT play. THAT play was not on the QB. THAT play was on the LT. 

Come on Huddle. I love Ickey's energy and fight, but he got his tail beat on that play and gave up a sack. 

How can we possibly have 9 pages blaming the QB for his LT getting bull rushed into him in 2 seconds while he's looking to the right? That's why your opinions aren't taken seriously. EVERYTHING negative is because Bryce Young sucks and is too small and his arm is too weak and he can't read the field and he's not accurate and...

You know who else doesn't run QB sneaks? Mahomes and Lamar. They use TEs. We could do that too if they're concerned about his size. But... I do recall Bryce running a QB sneak against Green Bay and getting a couple of yards out of it. He can do it. They just don't. 

9 minutes ago, mrBdawg said:

Chase Young bull rushes Ickey almost straight into Bryce in 2 seconds, who is looking right trying to push the ball downfield. He goes down.

And we are all here seriously talking about how Ickey did his job and Bryce didn’t 

I think a lot of it has to do with Bryce's past play that folk can't let go at this point. He used to hold the ball forever and just take sacks. Now the oline was bad but more than a few were on him. I judge him game to game, play to play, with no expectations. But he hasn't really been a sitting duck since his rookie season and maybe a little before the benching. Earlier this season he took sacks and fumbled the ball way too often. But he wasn't just sitting back there like a statue. He just didn't know when to give up on plays. 

43 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

 

Yeah, and Ikey is prone to mistakes but I am not gonna crush him as a pivotal reason why we lost that game. Especially in the midst of a very good season for him overall. 

I think the blame goes almost entirely to Canales and the coaching staff and the bulk of the remnant once again falling on Bryce.

Other players like Ikey, Ransom, etc certainly had their fair share of critical individual mistakes but I think the top line issues are the overwhelmingly biggest.

I wouldn't go that far. I think the defense should get the lion's share. But in their defense there were some very questionable calls that extended drives. But giving up those 3rd and longs were back breakers.

Bryce isn't asked to carry the team. He's asked to make his 4 or 5 big plays, usually towards the end of games. That's how you win with this version of Bryce. I think he made more than that yesterday. I thought he did a good job of manipulating the pocket and escaping when he had to. He just didn't get the help he needed to win the game. I'm not saying that's always the case. But it was yesterday. I think. I plan to watch the All-22 today. The eye in the sky don't lie.

1 minute ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Made me think of superman 3 with Richard Pryor. That movie was so bad. The only thing that could have saved it was Richard Pryor being stand up Richard Pryor. 

Oh you old too!

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

 

 

Cool. So what about the paltry production, missed reads and general ineffectiveness that led to us being down at that point which was largely.....Bryce Young's fault?

 

 

Yep

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Bryce hasn't been Superman. He has largely been Lois Lane.

Ok. That was funny. 

Still doesn't change anything. But that made me chuckle. 

I actually agree. Just not on that play. 

10 minutes ago, csx said:

What LT never gets beat?

None. What QB never gets sacked? Especially when their LT gets beaten in 2 seconds?

1 minute ago, frankw said:

He. Has. The. Highest. Paid. OL. In. The. Entire. League.

Nobody is absolving Icky for getting penalized.

But Icky is not the face of the franchise. Icky is not currently the third highest paid player on the team. Icky did not get outplayed by Tyler Shough who was sacked 5 times and consistently harassed by our DL.

We aren't going to agree. It's fine. Good day sir!

Frank! The highest paid contract on the oline isn't even playing! They couldn't move the LOS in the run game and constantly allowed pressure against the pass. I don't care how much they're paid. Remember we paid a guy at LT who was the Center's brother. He was the highest paid lineman on the team, offense and defense, and he was the worst. 

Shough played really well in my opinion. Particularly for a rookie. But if you didn't see him get bailed out of a ton of bad passes by his receivers, then I don't know what to tell you either. 

I don't mind disagreeing. Have a wonderful day as well.

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

Dumping on Icky to cover for our #1 pick being outplayed by a rookie is such embarrassing foolishness.

Not holding your 1st round LT to the same standard is equally as embarrassingly foolish. Like what QB in the league avoids every rush like that? Every time? That's not realistic. In the same game, Shough got caught up in the trash a lot more than that. And the rush wasn't nearly as fast. 

22 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think the thing that stands out the most is that people keep having to find other people's mistakes to justify why Bryce Young doesn't win or play well.

Because other strating QB's in the NFL have ample adversity and somehow manage to overcome it on not such a rare basis. Untimely penalties, drops, defensive lapses, bad calls, etc. Also, they get heat for consistently failing to win, even with this situations. 

But it's always not Bryce's fault for even being in those bad situations in the first place. Boy it's funny how that works out....

No sir! I call it when he makes a bad play or has a bad game over all. That is not on the QB. He avoided that same pressure the play before and after, but expecting your QB to be superman and hide other players getting beaten that badly that fast is not realistic. For any QB.

Lef tackle is the BLIND side for right handed QBs. That's why they get paid so much. If your LT is getting dog walked into the QB in 2 seconds, that is not the QB's fault. Geez people. You would only say that about Bryce Young. Truth is Chase was beating Ickey like a drum all game - against the run and the pass. It wasn't speed rushes either. He overpowered him all day. Bryce basically escaped multiple sacks throughout the game. Dalton would have gone down at least 7 or 8 times yesterday, including that play. 

38 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

TE is pretty dire but I don’t think Canales offense really needs one if it’s clicking.

Tet is good already. Coker is VERY good, like when he gets out of Carolina he’s going to go insane somewhere.

obviously XL just needs to be cut 

TMac I'm sorry. He's pretty good. He's not good. Coker is good. He really is a smart, tough and reliable receiver. His only real negative is a lack of top end speed. If that dude had XL's physical ability, he'd be one of the best in the league. TMac is young. He's probably not what he was billed to be yet, but we've seen flashes. He'll be better than all of them in a year or two. He lacks true WR1 speed, but his ability to make tough catches is why he went before Egbuka and Luther. Unfortunately he really hasn't made a lot of tough catches when given the opportunity. I'd say Coker has just as many wow receptions as TMac, with a 1/4 of the targets. He has great instincts (that can't really be taught) but loses focus on catches way too much. 2 big drops yesterday. XL is a step above Mingo right now. He is not a natural receiver. I really hope the light turns on for him. His potential is through the roof. JT Sanders will likely be better in a season or two, but he ain't there yet. Not tough or reliable. Evans lacks athleticism. Tremble is the best of that group and he's an unreliable target as well. But I love his CRAZY when the ball is in his hands. He is who he is at this point. 

Yesterday's game was a really good example of where our receivers are compared to other teams. The little things like working back to the ball, high pointing intermediate passes with strong hands, catching in traffic, beating tight coverage. The Saints receivers probably saved 2 INTs yesterday on late and badly placed passes from Shough. So yes, he has all the confidence in the world to let it rip. I'll watch the All-22, but I'm thinking (like most every game) Bryce isn't confident in his receivers to make plays or bail him out on tight coverage throws. But at least he is taking deep shots now. Honestly think it's time to get Jimmy Horn in the game. We need some juice on the field in a big big way. 

1 hour ago, frankw said:

When Bryce looks good we have weapons. When Bryce gets outplayed by a rookie 8 games into his career suddenly we have nobody.

I love this place.

Not me. I have never thought this team had legit NFL caliber weapons. I think they have potential, but right now we probably have the worst WRs and TEs in the NFL. Sorry, just facts. 

Team doesn't have real playmakers except for Coker. And his big plays are based on mismatches most of the time. 

We don't have that guy at WR, RB or TE. We have a bunch of big possession receivers and TEs. Unfortunately only one of them can catch consistently.

It's time for Jimmy Horn to get more plays. He needs to be developed. Just take the lumps for 4-5 weeks, but he needs to get on the field.