SmokinwithWilly

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 I'm citing reports from Joe Person, Jeremy Fowler and Dan Graziano among others. I've also said repeatedly that I'd prefer to move on at some point, but realistically that's down the road. 

I doubt you'll find much of anybody among the beat writers,  talking heads and reputable sources who doesn't believe Bryce is getting the option.

If you find one, feel free to link it 

And there are no reputable sources regarding Bryce. Every beat writer, talking head, and reputable source lost all credibility after drafting day IMO.

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 I'm citing reports from Joe Person, Jeremy Fowler and Dan Graziano among others. I've also said repeatedly that I'd prefer to move on at some point, but realistically that's down the road. 

I doubt you'll find much of anybody among the beat writers,  talking heads and reputable sources who doesn't believe Bryce is getting the option.

If you find one, feel free to link it 

Can you answer the question? Do you think Bryce should get an extension for 50-55m per season at the end of this year if he demands it? 

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Where on earth have I indicated this is what I want to see?

I've been talking all along about what I expect to happen. What I would want is a very different conversation.

As far as what Bryce wants beyond the fifth year option, I have no predictions till I see how the next two seasons go. 

You've been making all these arguments from the 1st person. So unless you're privy to a whole lot of inside information from the front office, this is your opinion.  What I'm seeing from you is that you believe that Bryce is the reason we are  winning all these football game. I don't think he is.

I think we could plug in any mid tier QB in the NFL right now and have the same or better results. Our defense is vastly improved as is our running game which have contributed greatly to our overall record. 

I'm not talking beyond the 5th year. At the end of the 3rd year is when QBs typically want their extensions. They don't play on the last year of their rookie deal. The only 1st round starting QB to play his final year on the rookie deal  was Jones. The last QB to play his entire 5th year option without the extension was Lamar. Bryce could very well want his extension this summer because that's what the rest of NFL QBs get. 55-55m a season could be the asking price for Bryce. Do you think what we've seen across 3 years warrants such a contract? Your opinion. Not what you the front office will do. 

35 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Even the best QB in the league doesn't win games by himself. 

Sorry dude, but you're rationalizing to see what you wanna see. The reality is that Bryce can play and win in the NFL on this Panthers team. And barring something crazy, he'll be doing it best season too.

There is no scenario or argument we can come up with that's gonna stop that. It'll take something disastrous or just plain weird that we have no control over.

Hell, even if you win the argument against me in this forum, that doesn't change objective reality.

And you're rationalizing what you want to see. There are definitely scenarios where Bryce doesn't return next year that aren't outlandish. 

Here's one. Bryce wants an extension similar to the other top QBs at the end of year 3 that are still with their original team that drafted them. The Panthers refuse that level of compensation. The options are trade, cut or hold out. 

This is actually a very possible scenario. The only QB I can remember to play on his final year without the 5th year is Daniel Jones. I can't think of another. Lamar played on his full 5th year. 

Do you think, based on his current level of play, Bryce is worth 250m for 5 years with 180m guaranteed?do you think the Panthers believe Bryce is good enough that he deserves that kind of contract, bearing in mind what it will cost to make happen? Icky- gone. Lewis - gone. Mayes- possibly gone. Is Bryce still worth it? 

33 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

He had the best statistical performance of his career just a few weeks ago and beat an expected Super Bowl team in his last game.

The team isn't gonna look at that and go "okay, but remember when he sucked as a rookie?"

The only chance I see of any changes happening is if the last four games are unmitigated, biblical level disasters.

If Bryce has even decent performances though, and more importantly, we win two to three of those games, well...

 

The Atl game was an anomaly. 200 air yards with 250 YAC. That may be a record day on the stat sheet but that is not normal production. Does Bryce get credit for Tremble running over 5 Atl defenders for 45 extra yards? 

He didn't beat a Super Bowl contender by himself. Seems I remember an interception in the end zone, one returned for a touchdown and a strip sack turnover when the Rams were driving. Pretty sure the D had a significant role in that win with those takeaways.

Without that defensive TD, that's a loss. And it's not like our offense was in a shootout keeping pace with theirs. They were driving on our defense all day long at will. That pick in the end zone. Like a TD or field goal. That's at least a 10-17 point swing from those 2 plays by the defense. 

You think we were making that up? It took 2 4th down gambles to score because we couldnt sustain drives. And Bryce with 20 passing attempts all day is not leading an offense that was a 2:1 run to pass ratio. 

You can say Bryce had a great game. I say he had 3 great plays. The rest of the time, he was invisible. 

You're arguing he's going to get the option based of an anomaly game he hasn't come close to repeating in 3 seasons and team win, heavily influenced by takeaways and defensive scoring. And in SF, he didn't look like a rookie. He looked like the QB that got benched week 2 of his 2nd year. I think even discussing the option is asinine at this point. 

Let him finish the year. If he puts up 4 more ATL games, offer the 5th. He puts up another SF or 2, the 5th year should never be mentioned again. 

15 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean he isn't really wrong in a certain sense. Usually jobs are attached to big QB decisions(coaching or FO) so it's less likely for an entrenched starter to lose that job unless it is by some other factor(extremely poor play, contract situation, coaching/FO change/direction, etc).

If the FO or coaching staff think they have their QB, they aren't likely to give another QB a serious shot unless the situation can threaten their jobs. 

The NFL is still about winning but personnel decisions can still end up being a bit beauracratic or certainly political. 

We see it even on the current team outside of Bryce.

Which was my point. And entrenched starter can lose his job due to extremely poor play and Bryce has had literally the worst QB play in the NFL since being drafted. He hasn't even had to face a remotely capable QB in camp and he's being kept starter for some other reason than performance after 3 years. I'd call that coddling. 

15 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Most, if not all of them.

It isn't "coddling" either. It's standard practice. When a team names a starter, he's the guy. 

Like I said previously, the Bucs aren't going to go into next year telling Baker Mayfield he has to win the starting role again. He keeps it by default. That's how NFL teams operate.

Our feelings don't matter.

Since you don't believe in stats there's no way to have a rational discussion. Statistically, across all metrics that measure a QBs performance, for 3 years, Bryce has been the worst starter in the NFL. Where in any other sport, does the worst player in the league at his position play for 3 years without ever facing one day of competition for his job? 

And you're right, the Bucs aren't going to tell Baker that. He already knows it. It's the NFL. The highest level of football in the world. Not. For. Long. He already knows if he isn't the best QB on the team, chances are high that he could and should be replaced. Any competent coach/GM would do it or they could lose their job. 

But since you've said starters are entrenched, backups who've taken the starters job

Brady from Bledsoe

Romo from Bledsoe

Dak from Romo

R. Wilson from Matt Flynn

Hurts from Wentz

Kaepernick from Smith

Cousins from RG3

Tannehill from Marriota

Warner from Green

And a little closer to home

Delhomme from Rodney Peete.

There's a few

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not talking about pressers. Guys like Dan Graziano, Joe Person and others talk to people behind the scenes. 

Team officials don't automatically think the way we do. They make decisions we disagree with. Sometimes they're right. Sometimes they're wrong.

Either way, you can't ever assume that their evaluations and conclusions are gonna be the same as ours. 

Well the decisions of Tepper and his minions have led to the worst record in sports in the last 8 years. They've been wrong a hell of a lot more than they've been right. I trust my conclusions a hell of a lot more than theirs. 

1 hour ago, strato said:

It is time to accept that we casual fans are simply inferior to the big brained Bryce believers. 
They have been telling us this for three years. 

Its also time to accept the fact if the powers that be had listened to the Huddle we'd have made the correct choice on major decisions more often than not. 

40 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

I pounded on that drum for a long time and saw some really good centers move off to teams that ended up competing for championships. But what do I know?

Between Corbett and Mays we've probably got a good center. But really, we need to pick a lane there and stick with it. Consistency at the Center position is THE most valuable trait.

Mayes might be the most natural center we have on the roster. I don't count Corbett anymore because he's hurt too much. Paradis was coming off major leg injury, we had Bozeman and that was horrific. 

I was told repeatedly by many on this board anyone could play center and we should focus resources elsewhere. It's been the Achilles heel of our line for a long while now. Finding the QB of our line needs to be a priority this offseason. 

It looks like he's really starting to get his leadership role entrenched. I'm not a huge fan of his schemes at times, but I think we may lose him to a HC offer potentially because of that leadership quality. It's the trait I liked most in Ryans before we hired Frank, but he refused our interview request. 

5 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Select free agents as mid-price players with high leadership and locker room skills with great practice commitments. Grab your stars and role players in the draft and have them molded by the vets who make up the kind of team you are trying to be.

With the right core of solid players, you can make a lot of progress farming up first and second round picks, getting five affordable years out of them and then moving on, either trading them away or grabbing compensatory picks when they leave. It's not flashy and doesn't make sense to the fantasy football crowd, but really, a team only needs one or two star quality players on it to make it big. Those two must be ones that are directly involved in every play, though, like a QB, DE, MLB or OT. 

That being said, if your team's star player is a WR, you've got a problem, because it's a crap ton of money on a guy who might figure heavily into one third of your offensive plays. 

 

Ive never understood not going after a center after Kalil's neck injury. Center is the keystone in the offense as much as QB. Our line has really struggled without that leadership position. That's always been a core of offense to me, even moreso than tackles. We were spoiled with his level of play.

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I dont doubt anything you said here.  Put as I have stated since this came up, if they pick up the 5th and thats it, then we are in uncharted waters for a top draft pick.  You can point to us picking up the 5th with darnold but thats different.  Teams normally dont navigate like this.   So they better have a damn good plan to figure this out.  

 

I would feel way more comfortable if they cut dalton, signed a dude, drafted a dude.  Do that then go from there.  Dont pick up the 5th until after the draft.  That seems logical.  But again, the fact that nobody from the press has even asked is fuging cowardly

I think the reason we immediately picked up Darnold's 5th was what we traded to get him and it wasn't reasonable to expect him to reach his potential on a new team in a new offense in a single season given where he was at in his career. I think 2 seasons was a reasonable expectation, especially given the fact he had been coached by Gase. 

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

How many teams with established starters ever bring in competition?

Do you see the Bucs telling Mayfield "you were the starter last year but this year you have to win the job again"?

If the team believes Bryce can be the guy (and just about all indications right now are that they do) they're not gonna put money and resources into another quarterback. They'll direct those toward shoring up somewhere else. 

You don't believe Bryce should be the guy. I don't believe Bryce should be the guy. Hell, a solid percentage of this board doesn't believe Bryce should be the guy.

But the only people whose opinions matter appear to think differently.

How many teams coddle their QB the way Bryce has been coddled? I have never seen any other team in the NFL EVER baby a QB the way that Bryce has been. 

Bryce was named day 1 starter his first year. It was obvious he didnt deserve it. He wasnt ready as evidenced by the worst rookie year in NFL history. 

So let's move to year 2. He's named starter again with no competition in TC and is benched 2 games later. We have the ghost of a backup in Dalton who is so bad he can only beat Vegas and let's remember, the only reason he lost his starting job was a car accident, not because Bryce actually beat him out in practice. 

And year 3. We sign Dalton again, who already proved he couldn't be depended on to put an even remotely passable performance on the field, and bring back Jack Plummer, who was even worse than last year. It was obvious he was nothing more than a pretend body in an attempt to create an illusion of some type of attempt to find a backup. 

Then we start again with garbage play again and Bryce gets benched with a phantom injury, and the ghost of the ghost of Dalton breaks his thumb on the first drive and craps the field all over again. If we had actually made an attempt to find a legitimate QB2, it's possible Bryce doesn't step on the field again. Bryce is not agood QB and if we had any other mediocre QB, our record would be the same or better. 

Bryce is not entrenched. He's been placed, protected and sheltered from ever having to face a  real QB competition in TC. Richardson and Levis both were ass and both were benched and eventually replaced. 

Do I expect Baker to face competition in camp? Sure. I expect Tampa to find the best QB2 they can at price that fits their cap and resources and system and get him up to speed. If he's better than Baker, and if he's better by a significant margin, that's best for the team. The ultimate goal is a Super Bowl. Bellichek was constantly getting QB2s with the GOAT as his starter. He knew the value and that was realized when Cassell led them to an 11-5 record as a backup. 

You and I may think differently than the people that matter but I will say it again. If you're afraid to bring in a capable backup, especially after the debacle of last year. The starting role wasn't earned, it was given, and that's loser mentality.

39 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't doubt that they'll upgrade the backup spot. I'd be extremely shocked if that didn't happen.

I'd be equally shocked if that player doesn't come in understanding that he won't be competing for the starting job. 

Why would you not let him compete? Put the best QB on the field. Period. Why must we coddle Bryce? Why should everyone else on the team have to compete for a starting job except for him? You think if the team sees another QB outperform him in TC and he's still handed the job it won't wreck the locker room? Again I say. Loser mentality. 

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Because I don't think they plan on bringing anybody in except for a role that's understood to be a backup. 

I get that fans want competition for Bryce, but there's no indication the team does. 

The team should. If they don't, they should be fired. You always look to improve. Always. Bryce gets hurt week 1 and is out for the season. You want Jack Plummer as your QB for the season because you don't want anyone capable of competing? That's loser mentality. 

11 minutes ago, strato said:

No tight ends this time around. Trenches, ILB, if the right edge is there then you adjust. 
 

Talking about Young and thinking his standards are suddenly like 4-5 notches higher because of a couple of games is such a trap. 
 

He is like the 5 that shows up to the party with a couple of fat 2s. Don’t look too close. 

I wouldn't mind taking a look at Michael Mayer from Vegas. Ever since they took Bowers he's disappeared. He's had a thumb injury this season, but he may be able to had since he's been mentioned in some trade rumors this year before the deadline. His contract is still manageable too. 

5 minutes ago, countryboi said:

We’re never getting natural grass. The Tepper's loving having concerts, and for those shows they lay plastic flooring over the field and build the stage on top. Natural grass can’t survive the repeated abuse and compaction.

It could be done. You just have to have the proper support infrastructure underneath. Just take some engineering to carry thr load. I got bored one day and figured out how to do it from a landscaping perspective. 

On 12/4/2025 at 12:13 PM, Mr. Scot said:

He doesn't have your charisma

(might have a better 40 time though)

I pulled a hammy thinking about running a 40. 

1 hour ago, ThPantherFan said:

I hope he does leave.  I've not been sold on his defense.  

If he leaves for a HC job, we get an extra 3rd comp pick in consecutive years. 

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Well, that is the cheap FL equivalent. On the street it's called "Bucs Fan."

Saints fan must sniff the residue left on Bourbon Street after Mardi Gras. I'm sure fat Alice has a baggie of it hidden somewhere in his nanny's room. 

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I genuinely have zero idea what he is even talking about.

I assume this is what happens when you get a fentanyl addiction and then start doing LSD.

Tide pods and bath salts? 

7 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

You should.

Marty Hurney has said in an interview that had Houston not been picking ahead of us, we would have drafted Carr over Peppers.

And to be fair to Carr, he not only received weekly beatings behind Houston's poorly equipped offensive line, but on top of that also some absolute dog sh-t coaching from Chris Palmer and company that probably aided in derailing his career.

Just one of several examples from that era where somebody else's screwup actually saved us from screwing up ourselves... 

Daniel Snyder saved us from Greg Little in the first by taking Haskins which left us Burns. Hurney had said he would have taken him at 16. Instead he traded up in the 2nd to get him only to have him shipped out 2 years later for a late round pick and a stale twinkie. 

I know everyone says Hurney was a 1st round genius with his record, but some of it was other teams being stupid and some must of been just sheer dumb luck. Hars to believe anyone could be that good (1sts) and that terrible (2nd-7th) at everything else. 

That's a weak OPI

1 hour ago, ColumbusCounty said:

1 Oline breakdown: 

Ickey: 4 Years @ 28 Million (last year of deal)

Damien Lewis: 4 Years @ 53 million (2 years left) 

Austin Corbett: 1 Year @ 3 million (last year of deal) 

Cade Mays: 1 Year @ 3.4 million (last year) 

Robert Hunt: 5 Year @ 100 million (3 years left) 

Taylor Moton: 2 Year @ 44 million ( 1 year left) 

After looking at the above...the crystal ball is saying we'll probably draft a RT and sit'em a year while Moton works off his last year. Mays will be resigned and Corbett might get yet another year here. 

As much $$ as we put in that Oline, I don't think the dline is too far behind. Brown, Wharton, Bobby Brown and Robinson alone probably combine for close to 200 mil.. lol yea restructure and paycuts will probably be coming soon

Moton is signed through 2027. He has 2 more to go.