SmokinwithWilly

6 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Yes, winning can breed winning, but 1 or 2 meaningless wins at the end of a lost season isn't going to do that.  Winning 4 out of 5-6 games to close out a season is the type of thing you'd need to carry over into the offseason and into the next.

I think it's MUCH easier to make an argument that our improved play and winning say 2 more games could significantly hurt our future than if we were to have been playing awful the last few weeks and the rest of the season.

If Bryce hadn't shown this improvement the last few weeks, he would be gone in the offseason, traded to the highest bidder and we try to move on.  But now that he's shown improvement, he's going to be the week 1 starter next year.  If we win another game or two, it also could take us out of the T-Mac/Hunter/Johnson range of player that we'd be looking at in the Top 5 of the draft.

What happens if Bryce then doesn't show any more improvement next year, or even worse, reverts back to his rookie season or early this season's play?

We'd have lost that elite difference maker at the top of the draft and then wasted another season on Bryce before trying to move on from him in 2026, except without having T-Mac, or Hunter, or Johnson, and instead having more of a raw prospect from that 10-12 spot in the draft who may not become the superstar those other players could be.

That's not a far fetched scenario, if anything it's probably more likely to happen than not, as personally, I still don't think Bryce has a snowball's chance in hell at becoming a franchise QB and we're going to be looking to replace him after next year anyways.  

If you're a true Bryce believer, maybe you look at it differently, but even if you are that true Bryce believer, wouldn't you then want to be in position to give him a true elite weapon in T-Mac?  Would you really rather get 1 extra meaningless win this year if it meant not being able to get him that weapon next year?  Is that one more win this year going to help Bryce succeed next year more than getting T-Mac would?

In the end, I'm playing the odds.  And the odds are that our franchise will be better off 5 years from now if we end up in the Top 5 of the draft than if we fall to that 10ish range of the draft.

It's long term vs short term satisfaction. I'd rather lose the rest of the games this year and be able to draft a difference maker because he's actually available at our pick, than win a couple of games and end up 10-16 and getting another good player, but not game changer. No one remembers the feel good wins a year or 2 from now. They remember success and that's not something we've done with any regularity. 

12 hours ago, ClawOn said:

This is a hot take.  Never seen it mentioned before. 

Can't tell if you're serious....

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I really don't understand why they're still playing Cousins other than the $$$ they're paying him. You panic drafted Penix for a reason. Play him.

Or it could be that they're letting him get time to learn on the bench like a lot of new QBs need to do. 

I think it would be fair to say if Byrce had spent his 1st year on the bench instead of being thrust into the starting lineup before he was ready, this season may have been quite different. 

22 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

2 hours ago, electro's horse said:

Rounds 1-2: players that can contribute right away

Round 3: player that is definitely contributing this year in some capacity, next year definitely. 

Round 4: special teams/backup db/lb/lineman

rest of the draft: most athletic people left regardless of position and trust your coaches. Bonus points if they dropped for weed. 

I feel like we love projects in the early rounds. It's why we're where we are and other teams are where they are. You can take projects when you already have a well built team. When you have more holes than a block of swiss cheese, you get guys that can plug those spots. 

I feel like this is an old bedtime ghost story.

A long time ago, on a night much like tonight, the Carolina Panthers drafted Eric Shelton...

4 hours ago, outlaw4 said:

How I see things, this year is his true rookie season. Most of what the prior staff taught him is probably of little value now and his 2023 on-field experiences - if anything - taught him more bad habits than good. It's almost as though BY needed to flush all that out of himself and start all over again. That's why I'm not obsessing about raw numbers because he is still very much learning how to play the game properly with just enough good pieces around him that he can make something out of it. 

We used to have a QB that did stuff like this a lot. In fact, one of the reasons I became a fan of this team.

Not going to declare we've gone full circle yet but I'd be lying if it doesn't feel like a blast from the past.

But it's not his true rookie season. His true rookie season counted and where it counted most was on his contract. That's a year of rookie salary cap that we can't get back. We're in week 14 of year 2 and are finally seeing good football from Bryce. We should not be going into year 3 asking ourselves if he can be the guy or if this is a flash in the pan type grouping of games. We need to see a full 3rd season of what we've seen the past few games. If he keeps playing like he is, we're probably going to be hearing about an extension somewhere early season 4. Personally, I'd like more than a single complete season of elite level play before we end up having to drop a 6 year, 360M contract.  

51 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Remember when we took an injured RB over C Zach Frazier in the draft?

Or Terrace Marshall Jr over Creed Humphrey. 

2 minutes ago, Barney said:

Sometimes I feel like there are fans of other teams that post on here to make our fanbase look really stupid, but then I realize some of our fans just are.  The kneejerk reactions about draft picks and then never admitting they are wrong when things work out.  

It's not knee jerk reactions. There have been very few picks in Teppers tenure that have worked out with the most successful at this point being Chuba. Bryce's successful sample size is far too small to label him a home run and Horn has been injured half his career. 

13 hours ago, Ricky Prickles said:

"Blah blah blah Morgan got the wrong pick"

Hey fat guys, if you all were so brilliant you would be GM's but you don't seem to yell as hard and scream as loud when you are wrong about something as you do when you are correct. Everytime something happens there are fifty fat guys that run here to say "Told ya so". A clock is right twice per day. If Morgan needs advice on pie eating contests or banging subpar looking women I'm sure he will give you a call.

Dude. You seem a little triggered here. Sadly the fan base has been right more often than not over the past 6 years about major decisions the Panthers FO has made. 

You don't necessarily have to look at the player, you have to look at the tendencies of the front office. Players with high RAS scores that need a lot of development in early rounds. Development isn't something we've really excelled at. Paying big FA contracts for guys that were not good. 

JMO, but I think we've reading the flow of the drafts poorly and drafted out of panic several times and been at the tail end of runs instead of the beginning. I also think we've built the team poorly by constantly "retooling" instead of just embracing a rebuild. We've paid positions in FA we should have been drafting, and trying to fill key spots with draft picks because we have no other option from bad contracts. 

Bryce is not the QB I wanted. I still think we overpaid. I wanted AR with the right coach, but that wasn't Frank, so my then my default was Stroud. We started him when he had no business starting, which was made obvious in Seattle, and then doubled down the rest of the season to prolonged failure. Then this off-season he was handed the keys with no competition for a performance that was cut worthy except for his draft position. The last 3 games haven't proven anything to me yet. Even mediocre QBs have had short stretches of good games. We're going to need season 3 to see if he can pull it all together and season 4 to make sure he's not Daniel Jones before offering a massive contract off a single good year. We've had enough bad contracts for 1 year wonders. 

I don't like how this team has been operating and the path they've taken to build. We're not replicating what successful teams do. The Tepper way hasn't worked for the past 6 years and there's been zero sustained success in franchise history. It's hard to criticize fans for being pessimistic or critical about the way things are done when they've never seen 9 wins back to back years in 3 decades. 

56 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

Easy to call it a bad pick now... We didn't think Chuba would be this good..

We called it a bad pick then. It didn't make sense then. It makes less sense now. It is what it is. The real Panthers mantra.

Centers are overrated. Anyone can play center. They're about as interchangeable as RBs. No need to draft one when you can find one on another teams waiver wire or practice squad. They are even less valuable than RBs. 

At least that's been the argument every time I've suggested we draft one. 

59 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Of course there are always exceptions and things that are more and less important to a given player, but Horn's comments were the typical lip service you almost always hear and it will not result in him taking a major discount. The team will not hesitate to make a business decision in a player and they are all aware of that.

I get that. The statement was players ALWAYS chase the money and I was just pointing out it isn't always about making the most money. Players make decisions for different reasons. Could Horn be chasing the money? Sure. Could he be considering going somewhere else to play for a better team and a better chance at a ring? That's possible too. Could want to be in a different place to raise a family or maybe the Charlotte area is what he likes. I expect it to be a 100% business decision. 

2 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Pay me I will play anywhere. This the NFL players will always go to who pays them the most money. 

If we pay him he will stay. If not he will leave. It's that simple.

Wrong. Frankie Luvu walked out of here and we had offered him more money. Environment matters. Winning matters. Look at how many players played on reduced contracts to win a SB with Brady. Money isn't everything unless your team is a perpetual loser. 

2 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

At first I was like hell no. But this a new age of college football. Big names bring your program attention. BB arguably the best HC to ever coach in the NFL. Having that guy associated with your program is going to bring attention and these you college recruits are looking for the hot spot. UNC will be the hotspot team if they make this hire. I think the program will set itself but BB brings respect. Go play for the HC who knows what it takes to coach kids who wants to get to that ultimate level.

 

Bring him on. Let's be relevant for a change!

He's not the greatest and I think that showed after bRady left. Brady got another ring. BB turned that franchise into a train wreck. He's damn good, but there's no downplaying the huge part of his success that was TB12. 

17 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Let the speculation begin!

 

Shedeur Sanders posted a video on IG driving by the Raiders stadium with the caption "Legendary".

 

I thought Prime was staying at Colorado,but a chance to coach his son in that market big city bright lights. Seems like something Prime couldn't turn down. Also that beast of a TE they have Bowers.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen you got your wish no more Prime in college football. You pushed him out now get ready to let the circus come to the NFL.

 

 

Raiders will replace the Ravens as my bandwagon team if this happens. Sorry I'm just being real about my fandom.

If he does come to the NFL I'd expect nothing less than the Raiders. I suspect the new team HQ would be moved to Circus Circus. 

34 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Like I said, I fully expect the Eagles to win but imagine you're holding that betting slip and then Jalen Hurts or Saquan Barkley blows his knee up on the second play of the game. This is football. That poo happens. Now you're like OH SHIIIIIIIIITTT!!! LOL 

Bite your damn tongue. I got 3 bucks and change riding on the outcome. 

1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

He's your MVP?

 

 

Have him in 3 big money leagues that determine seeding this week. 

If we could win by 1 and still have Barkley get 300 and 3td that'd be great....

On 12/3/2024 at 5:35 PM, Davidson Deac II said:

The Houston player dived into Lawrence with his forearm into Lawrence's head and neck.  That is where the fine/suspension came in.  

If his arm had been out like he was trying to wrap up, I don't think it would have been a penalty because it was such a bang bang play and both players started moving down at almost the same time. Having that arm in like that changed the entire nature of the "tackle". 

55 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Basically this, but I'm positive Hunter won't be available anyway. I would be shocked if Jacksonville passed him up.

Probably going to depend on how severe that concussion is and if there are any lingering effects. A lot of guys recover, then you look at Oher and it ended his career. One of my close family members has post concussion syndrome and it didn't really show up in full until about 3 months after. 

9 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I was only using Samuel as an example as he was an easy one people here know well, and it had nothing to do with his or Thielen's statistical outcome, it was just meant to be about their style of play.

Thielen is one of the best route runners in the league, with sure hands, but isn't going to run away from anyone or make a defender miss him in a phone booth with his quick twitch movements.

Samuel is someone who isn't going to run the most pristine routes, but he's a player you just need to get the ball in his hands for him to use his explosiveness to make people miss and make plays.

With XL and Coker already on the roster, they project to have more of a game similar to Thielen from the slot than a Samuel.  That is why I'm saying if we are going out to get a pure slot WR, it should be someone in the mold of a Samuel, a quick twitch speedster, not a slower route running specialist.

I see the need for both. XL's hands aren't great and maybe an off season on the jugs machine helps that. Coker has yet to be determined how good he's going to be though it does look promising. I've just always been a fan of that no name guy that puts on his cleats, knows where the 1st down marker is, and if you need 9 he gets you 9.1 almost every time. He's not getting 8-10 targets a game, maybe 2-3, but they're the important ones on 3rd down to keep the chains moving and the drive alive. Fresh set of downs to get that explosive guy the ball. JMO, but I think you have to have one of those guys in your receiving corps. 

7 minutes ago, PadresPanthersFan said:

Yes that's exactly what it means. That's why Kelvin Benjamin >>> davante adams

 Hog mollies don't make good WRs and we all know how much Nippleshorts loved his hog mollies. 

Call me crazy but I'd like a Bersin type guy in later rounds that can learn under AT the tricks about how to get open. Bersin wasn't flashy or fast, but he caught every damn thing thrown at him. Someone who's willing to go across the middle and take those hits and actually hang on to the damn ball is something I think we've been sorely missing for a while. 

Just now, CamWhoaaCam said:

I want Tmac because he can help Bryce. Big target can be his 1st real #1 WR. Remember we trade his #1 DJ to get him. He's been working with rookies and a aging Thielen since we drafted him.

 

Tmac helps Bryce improve as a QB. That's why I want Tmac.

It's not all about Bryce. TMac helps any QB on our roster. We've crippled the defense this year to help Bryce and spent a ton of resources in the past 2 years to build around him. This needs to be about building a team. If Bryce gets drilled in the shoulder tomorrow and his career is over, having a well rounded offensive unit helps any QB, not just Bryce. We need a WR1 for any QB, not just Bryce. We've got to start playing the long game instead of the short game we've played for 3 decades.