Khyber53

6 hours ago, Moo Daeng said:

He could prove to be a huge signing for this line and defense. Kind of a Buckner type addition in that he is a very solid veteran addition to a very young line.

I hope so! I think that's what this d-line really needs. There's plenty of talent and energy, just need a wily vet to bring them together, show them the tricks of the trade. Or at least, that's how it works in the movies.

I don't think they'll be the new Peppers and Rucker. If they can be 80% of that they'll be outstanding, though.

Whew, they have a stat for everything. 

33 minutes ago, PandaMan said:

I think Shi Smith can turn into a really solid player, too.  This is the most loaded WR room I remember us having.  If the promising young guys are able to develop, this could be a really exciting year.  

I get you on Shi Smith and I'd like to see an underdog really make it, I always like seeing that. There's just a lot of hands out there and only one ball to catch. 

On paper it looks great. If we don't move the ball, it's going to look bad for Darnold and Brady. Too many weapons out there for us to not be dangerous.

I think we're trying hard to address LT. I think we've tried in the past and have just had some terrible judgement calls and terrible luck. Right now we have what, like four or five LT candidates going into training camp. Surely one of them will not just win it but cement the position.

Right?

Honestly, with the resurgence in our receiving corps, I had lost David Moore in the confusion. Something tells me he is going to be a solid contributor and make his presence known. 

I'm looking at what we have in WRs: Moore, Anderson, Marshall and this Moore. Then we've picked up Arnold and Tremble at the TE position. Then you add in CMC and his 1,000 yard receiving as a side benefit...

Sam Darnold has more weapons moving into this season than any Panthers QB in history. If we can get him decent protection, then I think he's going to have a shot at becoming great here. If not, I'm not sure it would ever happen.

Gosh, the potential is just astounding.

Well, best of luck to him. Hopefully his skills are getting better and he can contribute if called upon. Hardest position to play in the world's toughest sport. 

On 7/4/2021 at 3:52 PM, SBBlue said:

Moton didn't start a single game his rookie year.  I hope we can ease BC into starting.  

I really want him to get out there right now and take over a starting spot. However... you're being much wiser than I am right here. Develop the guy unless he really is a world-beater in training camp. 

Jags are gonna Jag. 

Even for all the craziness and confusion, it was pretty amazing that we even had NFL games last year. I'm hoping they get full immunization levels on the team and we don't have to see anyone out for COVID. 

If he lives up to the promise, he's going to be tearing it up for a decade.

5-11 is 5-11, no matter how you slice it. Of all the coaches hired on new to start the season last year, Rhule and Co. had the worst record. We can wax and polish it all we want, but that 5-11 finish is what is in the record book, there's no asterisk going to be placed on it, there's no makeup test.

I don't want us to have another losing season in 2021 and I'm not even predicting one. I am, however, warning that public and ownership opinion on our head coach will most likely change greatly if we pull up last in the NFCSouth or post a losing record again. 

If your best RT can also be your best LT, then you move him. There should be no question about it. People who can be decent, much less good, LTs are rare and needed. While there's truth to the saying in today's NFL defenses attack both sides of the line equally, it doesn't translate that LTs and RTs are of equal value. 

Beyond the whole blindside issue, you have to understand that the RT gets more help both from a TE presence AND from the way that plays are designed to move to the right more. Running plays alone often target the right side more than the left to better utilize the interchange between QB and RB, FB orientation and even the general tendency for linemen to be able to work to their right sides better (not to mention that it makes D-line players move to their left -- something that can make for a needed half-step advantage for the offense). For those reasons alone (and others) it is easier to train up a RT than a LT. 

LTs just about have to be wired differently to be able to adjust to that initial movement (and much of what follows) heading toward their non-dominant side. Around here people laugh at the "He's left-handed" idea, but there's some truth to it. The LT has to go to their own person weak side most often while the DE opposite them is generally moving in their natural, stronger direction. 

If Taylor Moton can play LT at 85% of the ability he has at RT, then he'll be the best we've had at that position since Jordan Gross left. 80% and he beats Oher. That's a big deal around here. Right now, we are a wasteland of has beens, never was'es and walking wound factories at LT, so just even trying him there is a step in the right direction. And replacing him at RT should be much simpler --- frikkin' Mike Remmers was our RT in the Super Bowl...

Give Moton the shot and if he can do the job (and I think he can) then give him the money he wants and lets get this thing back on track.

Whew! Glad it's not us, will be happy to miss the show now, too!

49 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

I think Rhule believes this too, which is why we are taking big risks with  Darnold, trading down to acquire more talent, and moneyballing the oline to put resources in the D and O weaponry.  

He's trying to win now.

If Darnold, the Oline rookies, Horn, Reddick, and Perryman stay healthy and ball out, we're a winning team.

Yep, he is. I hope it works out for us, I really do. 

I'm just saying, again and again, he's going to have to show more than "promise" next year. 

51 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

How did the D lay an egg last year? Everyone expected that unit to be near the bottom of the league. Finishing middle of the pack was significant exceeding expectations.

Rhule may or may not end up working out, but Tepper is in love. His seat won't start getting warm for at least another year.

 

Bottom of the league and a losing season, whether expected or not, is laying an egg. 

Tepper's a billionaire. He can trade out a coach faster than a wife. Love is fickle when your bank accounts all have multiple commas.

56 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I mean we had a 5th round rookie in Roy playing significant minutes with YGM, and Brown both being rookies (I know they were higher picks, but there is still a learning curve). If the RB gets past the line there were Whitehead and a another rookie in Chinn on the next level. I honestly think he had no other option than to play it soft and let the young players develop.

Meh. Yeah, but that's part of the game. I get what you are saying, but in the end, they don't spot a team points because their guys aren't as good.

2 hours ago, SBBlue said:

 

Even if the D doesn't perform, I'd be surprised if Rhule let him go.

 

Honestly, if the D lays another egg AND the offense ends up sputtering again, it may not be about Rhule letting Snow go, it may be both of them carrying their bags out the door. Yes, I know Rhule has a long contract but if he posts another losing season in a row, then people are going to start calling for his head.

I like the guy, he says all the right things, he has a good college track record behind him, he's made some bold moves. It should all work out, but...

Sometimes great college coaches move to the NFL and the magic doesn't follow. The list of two and done former college HCs in the NFL is a really long one. Rarely do they get the chance to have three losing seasons in a row, no matter the contract or how beloved they are to their players. Teams often just eat the contract and move on.

If you don't think Rhule knows that he's staring down the barrel of a gun right now. He's going to be compared to the crop of other first timers hired that season as well. Cleveland's Stefanski turned that team right around (they had talent on paper at least). Joe Judge pulled off one more win than we did, in a weak division but with notably worse players and similar injuries. If you add in Mike McCarthy and Ron Rivera as new coaches taking over teams, both amazingly had a better record than we did (and a losing record playoff berth for Rivera) while both teams had serious injuries and debacles at QB (and while personally battling cancer for Rivera). 

In a no excuses business like the NFL, that win-loss thing is important. Seeing signs of a turnaround can get you past that first year, but if you're at the end of your second season with a losing record and people are "seeing signs of a turnaround" it doesn't take long before someone at the boardroom table brings up the very real question, "Could an experienced NFL coach take these guys and do better with them?" 

In this "what have you done for me lately?" league, Rivera was just a season and a half removed from an 11-5 season (plus playoff appearance) before he was given the pink slip. And Rivera had coached the team to the Super Bowl just four years prior. When the writing was on the wall that things weren't getting better, they jettisoned him. The same happened to Fox before him. And honestly, the same happens to almost every NFL head coach at some point. Rhule, for all the contracts and guarantees, lives under that sword of Damocles.

Hey, I want the 2021 Carolina Panthers to come out and win the division, tear their way through the playoffs and contend for the championship, I'd be estatic. I'd be mighty happy if they just make the playoffs and win one or two. I'd be satisfied with a simple winning record. Short of that, I don't think anyone is going to be thinking Rhule will be here for long. 

Meh just ain't going to cut it. 

1 minute ago, ladypanther said:

Yep...offense lost that one. (Loved the way Rogers looked at the end of that game.)  I am just saying, the defense had some flashes with a very young roster.  I think any DC would have had quite the challenge last year. Considering what he had to work with, I think Snow had to be creative at times and did ok.  This year we will see what he can do.  I tend to be a glass half full person.   There is more talent, last years rookies have experience...I am expecting some good things from this defense.

I think you're right and I want the season to prove that's the case. Sure would be nice to be the defensive force in the NFCSouth once again.

Thanks OP for the run down. Nice to learn a bit about some of the unknown faces out there trying to make the team. Hopefully a couple find a new home, hopefully one or two get exposed as diamonds in the rough and end up surprising us all.

12 hours ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

Man, I could not disagree here more. Yes you are correct in saying the defense was terrible on 3rd down. But we all expected that. We regularly started 4 rookies on defense for most of the season. We had a backup caliber MLB who could not cover anyone in the middle of the field and poor safeties covering down field to help our CBs. That problem has been thoroughly addressed this offseason. But I feel our defense tremendously overperformed for what we had. I expected us to have a decent offense last year but one of the worst defenses in the entire league. Snow REALLY impressed me last year. I figured our only shot of winning games would be outscoring our opponents. At least that side of the ball had established talent where our defense had virtually none heading into last season. 

I get you, but whatever the reason, playing timid loses you games. And they really don't accept excuses before the game and spot points to the team with the underperforming players.

I hope Snow has the guys, has the plan and has the success this season, I really do. I see the potential is there for certain, and there are some future stars out there, but you and I both know that if they come out soft again this year, Snow is going to be asked to fall on his sword. He really has to go out and make his team fight for it. He won't make it another year if they're just deployed as speed bumps again.

13 hours ago, ladypanther said:

Remember what the D did to the league MVP last year.  

Got five sacks, but gave up 145 on the ground to Aaron Jones? They made that day tough on Rodgers, but he still grabbed the win. In truth, it was one of our better defensive outings against a top notch opponent. We lost it because Joey Slye ended up being our highest scorer when we couldn't keep moving in the opponent's side of the field. That rests squarely on the offense.

15 hours ago, SBBlue said:

When you're outmanned, you don't play man.  We didn't have the manpower to play tight coverage.  We do now.  

They played soft across the entire defense. We weren't exactly stopping the running games either...

They were soft. The defensive game plan was soft. We had multiple games where the opposing team never had to make their punter get off the bench. 

15 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

I get what you are saying, but he had no other option than to try to keep everything in front of our young guys and hope for a turnover or missed play by the other team. At one time we had SO3, Franklin, Pride, Roy, YGM, Brown, and Chinn all on the field as rookies plus Whitehead in the middle and Boston whiffing on tackles. When DJax was hurt that defense had no business stopping an NFL offense from a talent standpoint.

The one game where they played all out on defense and were super aggressive was against the Lions. We shut them out and won the game. Not every opponent we faced was the Lions, but quite a few were of that level... our wins were too close and our losses were even closer. Just a bit more aggression and faith in his players would have made a huge difference is all I am really saying. 

Sorry folks, I'm not sold on our DC yet. We might have been undermanned out there, but that defense played soft as hell throughout the year. We couldn't get people off the field on third down. We were vulnerable underneath, over the top and all over the middle of the field.

While there were some good individual performances, that defense was lucky to walk out at 5-11. 

Snow, whether they say it or not, is on the hot seat. He'd better not melt this year. The guy coached like an old lady with a division III team. That's just not going to cut it in the NFL.