kungfoodude

Cool. Then back to being a dumpster fire. Great.

Those scenarios are so unbelievably far from each other that I had to think for a while who in the world you where talking about. I think you are forgetting that RGIII's career was basically over after year 1. I am not sure how you forgot this.

I care nothing of the more or less bust. It's all the same.

Yeah, I don't anticipate many suitors for him when we attempt to unload him. He is far less valuable than Justin Fields and almost no one in the NFL was willing to jump on that grenade. Not surprisingly, he hasn't shown any reason to have done so, either.

I would call Baker's season significantly better because he didn't get benched and he actually produced significantly. He also won more games. Regardless of that season, the career arcs are wildly different. Hell, Baker's worst two seasons would almost match Bryce's "best" season, so far. Look, is it possible Young turns this around, sure. But I would make a very significant wager it will not. Not with the Panthers, nor the other couple of teams he likely plays for on his way out of the NFL(my personal prediction).

Read my later post on it. I don't share the same view on either of those guys. One is still bad and the other was never bad in the first place.

I get that aspect but I genuinely don't believe that Bryce would be helped enough by a far better coaching staff to be even an average NFL starter. Consider that he has technically had three head coaches in his time here with limited changes in the results.

I actually disagree. I would rather have the bust out of the gate. NC is littered with Skins fans and that RGIII stuff scarred all of them. I get it. You think you have, "The Guy" only to see it all derailed by injuries. That's more painful, IMO.

That is definitely not necessarily true. There were ample instances throughout NFL history of young QB's playing early. You might be thinking of college football where that was definitely not a thing. I would push back on the "learning" part. It isn't as if there are gobs of reclaimation projects littering the NFL. Most of those guys either end up as career backups or flame out quickly. IMO, it's more that they were not NFL players in the first place. That has literally been a thing as long as the NFL/NFL Draft existed.

Not to mention that Darnold is still a lower tier starter to upper tier backup QB. Far from a "success" story. Baker was a playoff caliber player with the team that drafted him. He doesn't fit this mold at all. Hell, look at his stats from Cleveland and it will make your head spin in comparison to the rest of the guys being mentioned there. Jones looks great so far but it's two games of that.

This is cherry picking and, quite honestly, with some suspect examples with recency bias. The overwhelming majority of bust QB's that teams move on from end up never amounting to anything more than a lower level starter to middling backup. I would wager likely greater than 95% in the past 25 drafts or so.

XL is a social media influencer masquerading as an NFL player, IMO. I think he is far more passionate about that poo than he is football. I think it shows on the field.

I would push back on the idea that Newton came into a dumpster fire. He came into a team with solid bones/talent that needed a retool, which we did. I promise you, had we plopped prime Cam into the mess that was our organization that Bryce arrived into, we certainly still wouldn't be talking about playoffs. Far better results, no doubt, but that is an easy bar to clear.

Agreed. I think they never seriously considered him an option even though he was/is miles better than Darnold. I think the ego stuff was massively overplayed. He was played for the Browns, a disaster organization, and he accomplished more than they have in years. He came here to another diaster organization that happened to be worse than Cleveland and he didn't succeed. But, how could he? Frankly, who the fug could? I think our general fanbase really underestimates how terrible this organization truly is. It can nuke anyone. poo, you see how Stroud is struggling with a damn good Texans team? Can you imagine how bad he would be here in our circumstances?? He can thank his lucky stars we made the choice we did.

I am beyond this idea of "development" with the Panthers. It just hasn't really happened here often enough and most of these "high potential, very raw" guys have just been flat busts for us. Wallace should have been on the pine for 2-3 years. And maybe at a place that actually DOES develop those type of players.

That was one battle I never understood. Darnold is so clearly terrible and Bryce was terrible with a false hope of being better. Now both are very obviously bad. I will say that Darnold at least developed into a rosterable player. Bryce may be out of the league in 2-3 seasons at his current track.

Honestly, that is probably worse, TBH. I would rather you just suck right out of the gate than have to think about what could have been for a decade plus.

You undervalue all the hard work and dedication it took to be this bad.

I still maintain Baker was not the issue in Cleveland. Cleveland was just extremely stupid to pine after a guy like Watson when Baker was wildly successful by Cleveland QB standards. I will say that Baker's later success does show how terrible the Panthers are as an organization. We had the likely long term answer on a cheap deal but we dropped the ball completely pining after Bryce Young. Unreal.

I am not saying that a chunk of this isn't true but some of these guys still thrive in less than stellar situations and then become serviceable or elite. So, an element of this is on the player too. Perhaps the team isn't developing you enough but are you putting in the work on your own? Are you trying to excel constantly? I think that comes down to internal versus external motivation. All of these truly great players seem to have an elite internal motivation to be great. I am doubtful that is Bryce. He seems like more of a standard "cog in the machine" guy.

That is a swap included, though. So the RGIII is a little bit worse. I think there are more of these disastrously bad trade ups than we realize, because it isn't happening to us like Bryce did.

FTFY

The best thing about him is his motor and ability to pursue when he is out of position, which he frequently is. Wallace seems to have absolutely atrocious instincts. He might be the worst LB we have fielded in the Tepper era, which is saying a lot.

It's even worse in a 3-4. Those guys are vital.

I looked at a few. RGIII trade up(2 to 6) was for an additional 2 firsts and a second. That's fuging insane.