Waldo

In this age I was surprised to see them still kicking. They did put Musk's mom in the swimsuit issue so the signs where there...

Ben Jonhson or Slowik with Smith, Monken and Canales right behind.

Boy the Eagles people should be avoided like some here said, I had no idea they fell off that hard again.

I still think Smith needs more time in Miami and the specific challeneges facing them this offseason will be a great learning experience for him.

Not high on Callahan.

I hope the new HC fires Tabor along with the rest of the current staff, Tepper fuged that up.

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

A year ago they were one of the very worst teams in the league and we were a run of the mill bad team. Both looking for a new coach and a new QB. They made smart moves and are now in the playoffs with a playoff win under their belts. Meanwhile, we blundered spectacularly and cemented ourselves as the worst team in the league.

Oh wee mayne. Brutal.

And their owner is a giant pos and their GM has done some crazy BS and yet they are looking amazingly stable...

I guess anything is possible.

Has anyone broken down the sacks that were on the line and the sacks that were on Young yet? I know PFF had to have assigned plenty to Young with the grades they gave line guys after some games.

It's nice for Young he is durable but if he keeps playing like he does it won't really matter on the couch or as a coach.

He was the best DC before becoming a HC and he was paired with an amazing young OC that both come from a stable and well run team. It's no surprise he is an amazing HC. The real test comes when Slowik is plucked away for a HC gig. I have no doubt about their D under him regardless but I do wonder how his O does then. That is when we find out if he is just really good or great. McDermott was lucky to get through a Dorsey failure and fall into a Brady who had a really bad set up for a 1st attempt while being primed for a much better showing on the 2nd try. That's some damn good luck and Ryans is going to have to do the same.

It will be interesting to see which players would vibe with BB too. Some of that talent may not mesh with his practices and over the years those guys got bumped out of his program.

21 minutes ago, ncfan said:

His last QB was taken by Belichick the GM.  Think He said and it appears he will not be the GM and making personnel decisions here at his next stop.

Atlanta has all the weapons and a Good OL.  Just no QB and a bad defense.  Bill can turn around a Defense.  And I’m sure they’ll target via trade,FA, or draft will target a QB.   By their GM not Bill

We will see how well he works with his GM. Worst case they get a decent vet.

His last QB was Mac Jones. Great coach who will get an anger bump for a couple of seasons and go back to being old and just wanting to do it his way.

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yes and no...

Reich didn't set this scheme. Thomas Brown did, and I think Reich encouraged that because he wanted to help Brown and other assistants along in their career.

The problem: Brown wasn't good at it.

As head coach, It would have been on Reich to see that and try to fix it. Instead, He handled it in more of a Ron Rivera fashion by not doing much directly and just kind of hoping he'd learn and get better.

If we were able to see the full story, I think you probably find several incidents where Reich trying to be a nice guy and do the right thing ultimately heard both him and the team.

How soon did Brown have his direct path of communication with Tepper? If Tepper was boxing Reich in early, playbook and QB choice, then was he ever really checked in?

The Texans are not in the playoffs with Young. Stroud would have looked promising here but the dysfunctional stuff wouldn't have gone away.

Anyway you spin it Carolina whiffed hard after antrade they should never have made.

No wonder his staff keep eating themselves...

Yeah no good chance in Carolina until Tepper removes himself from the daily stuff. He also loves doing all of the stuff that made his team the worst in the league. It's time to pack up hope and put it somewhere dark and dry because it's not useful here anymore. 

3 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

I should have worded that better. I meant build an offense that could take advantage of his strengths that were shown in college. Other than anticipation and being able to take a hit, he really hasn't shown much in the NFL to build off of.

Gotcha. Yeah that what I have been trying to say. At the NFL level he really doesn't bring enough to the table. Either way 2024 is his shot and I really do hope they bring in better talent evaluators and team builders because this team is currently a hodgepodge mess.

2 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

As I said, we'll see what happens with Young. Hopefully, whoever Tepper hires can build an offense that takes advantage of what Young did in college.

I have no idea how Tua has looked. I haven't watched any NFL games except for parts of Panthers games the last couple years. I've been getting my football fix watching college games.

I am not about building a college progam in the NFL. You can't adjust for the tallent level down so absolutely try to coach him up but his college playbook won't work in the NFL.

1 minute ago, jayboogieman said:

You hit the nail on the head about about Tepper's ego. That's why I think he'll be willing to give his new hires a longer leash. Tepper's ego has taken a beating in the press, so he'll want to prove them wrong. But I wouldn't be shocked to see him fire them after half the season either.

I agree he will hire another yes man as GM too.

It's Tepper. Anyone that sells him a plan he loves he will do so anthing is on the table. With how he managed his team and how different levels have access to him the options of fail are wide open.

Until more people shun him, at least the good people, then he won't change. Having nothing but scrubs as options will leave only one person he can be mad at, himself. It's sounding headed in that direction but not there yet. A couple more 1 and done would do it i think.

2 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Yeah, the trade was a huge mistake and cost way too much. As for Young being peaked, eh, he can add muscle and get stronger. He can also work on his passing and footwork to improve them. Young can't do squat about his height though. He's not going to get taller.

I'm not willing to call him a bust yet though. Let's see what happens after he has an NFL offseason strength and conditioning program and hopefully at least an average NFL Oline playing to their strengths. Now, if he still looks bad after that, then yeah, I'd say he's a bust.

He has to escape the pocket like he did in school and his escapabiliry doesn't look NFL level. That's peaked. So many times he had to run into a line gap in school to toss it up while his WRs made the play. That's peaked.

Maybe they can get him a better line and an amazing HC to scheme him but if Tua isn't gpod enough Young really isn't and if Miami wants a ring they need a QB that can win in the ugly playoff level games (they only won agaisnt the Boys by a ref in regular season right?).

He is busting but time and all of that. Some is on the team and some is on him.

4 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Young was put in the worst situation of any of the rookie QBs by a long shot. That said, he could have played better too. I honestly don't think any of the rookies would have had success in Carolina this season and wonder if any vets would have as well.

As for 2024, I fully expect more of what we've had since Tepper took over. And that's bad, losing football. Tepper will most likely stick with the coach and GM through at least part of 2025 though since he'll want to try to rehab his image some.

I can agree with no having great success here but they shouldn't have looked like busts throughout.

I don't know. It feels, just my opinion, that Tepper will miss on his savior and have to settle again. Look how that turned out at QB after he had to settle after missing on Stafford and then Watson. Tepper wants to be the smartest guy in the room but also the loudest guy with all of the attention. He loved having that #1 pick so he could talk about it and force people to listen to him. He is a total drama queen so the new hires could both be 1 and done again though I am guessing a GM he hires will be more of 'his guy' while the HC is looked at as more at fault (since Tepper still looks to understand so little about the game and leauge in general). I would be shocked if Johnson or even his plan B comes here so 1 and done is on the table still for 2025 at HC in my mind until it's not.

4 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

People looked beyond the size and in some cases saw what they wanted. But if you watched their college games, you saw Young escape pressure, dance around in the backfield, and make a good pass a lot. Now, there were games that didn't happen too. You also saw Stroud stand in the pocket throw to his first read a lot since he rarely ran in college and had a good Oline. I don't blame him since his first read was open 90% or more of the time because they were elite receivers. Every QB throws to the first read if they're open, so nobody should blame him for that and I certainly don't. In the few games where the defense was able to pressure Stroud, he made bad decisions, bad throws, and took sacks. It's why people questioned if it was the OSU system that made Stroud look so good most of the time or him being a great QB.

Honestly, all you can do is go by their tape. Making throws in shorts at their pro days in controlled environments is easy. So are the combine events since guys have been specifically training for them for years. It takes more than a RAS score to be a good player. But on the flip side you have guys that are great college players that just can't play in the pros for whatever reason. I guess it just comes down to making your best guess and praying you're right if you're a scout and GM. Otherwise, you're out of a job.

I saw a lot of WRs making plays and his escapability looked college level. It wasn't Wilson or Murray level. The level of talent and coaching disparity between the NFL and school make taking a chance on Strouds talent being coschable vs Young looking peaked at that level should have been the nail but it wasn't.

I think people just take their excitement from that level to be actual ability. The overall talent level at that level tells you all you need to know when you compare the talent of a Stroud or Cam to a Young. Even Wilson went in the 3rd for good reasons and he was more talented than Young. I agree at the end of the day you have to take a swing but if multiple picks, now 2 #1 overall, you have to be right which is why I was always agaisnt a trade of that magnitude. 

10 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

It has a few anonymous execs being interviewed about CJ vs. Bryce.

A few are still towing the "it's everything around him line" and we gotta do more to make him better. 

Some are saying it's a combination of factors including Bryce, he wasn't posied but we didn't put him in a good situation.  

...and a few others are on the we-made-a-mistake camp.  See below:

So it seems the lively debate here persists in the execs world.  

2024 is going to tell us a lot about Bryce and the future of this team.  This GM and Coaching hire becomes all the more critical.  

The article rounds out by mentioning the S2 leak fiasco and how certain execs didn't buy it because CJ obviously has a strong football IQ.  Also says in a nutshell how you can't close the book just yet but we've created a bad situation.  And that CJ has just been awesome.

With all the people that were high on him, most will keep towing the everything around him until after this draft cycle and then they can switch their narratives without admiting they were ever wrong. Kudos to the ones that call it like it looks.

I wish 2024 held some mystery of improvement but after 6 seasons we should all expect what is coming next.

Edit: 5 seasons? On the 6th now I guess.

2 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

They should have stayed at 9 and just taken BPA to keep building the roster, but as I stated leading up to the draft, they had to give people some hope after so many losing seasons and take a QB. As for Young vs Stroud, Young was the better college QB. Young played better when pressured. Stroud just didn't play well when defenses got to him until the Georgia game. In that game, Stroud flipped a switch. Back then, I wondered if the Georgia game was a one off since the entire season had been the complete opposite for Stroud. That's why I preferred Young.

But Stroud has kept up his play. Kudos to him. Now the question is if he can keep that level of play up in the future. The question for Young is if he simply improve and make more plays like he did in college.

I don't get it. Young looked like a school level QB at best to me and Stroud looked NFL ready. I still don't understand how people can't see that.

8 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

I will say, I pounded the Tyrique drum and he had a lot of detractors in the draft build-up.  That kid balled out for Chicago this year and he played way more snaps than expected.  

Elsewhere...related to the thread, The Athletic had a lovely new CJ v. Bryce article:

https://theathletic.com/5206755/2024/01/18/c-j-stroud-bryce-young-texans-panthers-nfl-playoffs/

 

Can you break down the article some? Just curious to what the naritive is now out there.

15 hours ago, jayboogieman said:

• Stroud has the "it" factor and should have been the #1 pick.
• People should be able to say that without being all doom and gloom.
• The Texans know they have their QB while the Panthers still hope they have their guy.
• Stroud is already one of the best QBs in the league.
• It's too early to say Young is a bust.
• Young can become one in time, but would still be behind Stroud.
• It's ok to say the Panthers missed.
• Says taking Young over Stroud wasn't the big mistake based off what was known at the time. The big mistake was trading up to #1 in the first place.

Young got so many lazy and poor evaluations. It was all look how special he plays in school vs he has a lot he needs to clean up that was actually true.

He is 100% right about the trade. I knew they had fugged up when they announced it. Bad teams don't get fixed with just 1 player.

10 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That's where I wonder about all these guys saying Shanahan. That dude has had an embarrassment of talent with the 49ers.

They keep bringing in more. They have made mistakes but the good to bad ratio is amazingly great. 

The situation around the HC will always matter. Having that mix of ownership that has learned the hard way and a good GM is how you give a HC a chance to be great. Like you said Tomlin is a good coach but how good could he look here with ragtag talent and an owner who is of Tepper's quality...Well what HC could overcome that every year? None that I see. 

11 hours ago, ncfan said:

I would like to think injuries at OG effected him.

 

But I keep going back to the start of the season where he struggled mightily in the joint practices and preseasons Before Brady got hurt.

And yet he look fine at the end of the year before. Scheme and coaching matter while it sounds like the wheels were coming off the Panther's short bus in training camp anyways. No idea if he is a fit moving forward but he can be given another shot with competition or traded/cut as needed. There are so few players not in that category going forward.

Upgrade anywhere they can, especially on the lines. I don't care who is sitting at that spot if they can be beat out by someone else.

No idea how the OG play affected his play and not sure it matters in whatever scheme they will be running.

1 hour ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Two guys that have really been on the cutting edge of offense for a while. Hard to go wrong there. 

I really like Ryans too. Just the way his players talk about him is something else. 

There are a lot of guys we would be lucky to have but those 2 run the kind of teams I wish the Panthers could do.