Waldo

38 minutes ago, shaqattaq said:

TBF, I was tickled shitless to get Diontae. 

But the writing was on the wall, Thomlin only drafts bat-poo crazy WRs.

I was in the camp of 'it's probably going to end poorly'. He sure looked to fit that mold. Just glad they dumped him in the end. 

The Panthers have all of the lack of deep passes without the threat of deep passes

13 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Never talked about gaslighting and you’re interpreting sarcasm but for all you know I was completely serious. Are you getting the point? Hope I don’t have to call you a liar and say it never happened to drive it home.

That's more fun when Im drinking and not at work

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Of course they are all busts. Young QBs with high upside that either had their chance cut short or were in terrible situations. Building your roster and trying for one of those is a cheap risk potential high reward situation. I don’t think we take one early in the draft again right away. Mid to late in the draft is a cheap gamble but deliver pretty low chances. Trying to recreate a Danny Dimes, Geno Smith, San Darnold, Baker Mayfield type situation as our plan B kind of works. At worst these guys are backup QBs which we need anyway. They are young enough to possibly have some potential still. You are finding some elite QB in FA for cheap. 

Geno is really the only good company to those guys and it took him to 32 years of age to get it to click. He was a number 3 not 2 until they are starting to click. 

Baker was a pro bowler and went to the playoffs. Darnold just can't be leaned on but is solid in a #2 approach of don't lean on him. Dimes looks to only play well in contract years so if that's due to that or just not having a crushing weight of a big QB contract is TBD but still looks like a #2 in the same way Darnold is a #2 because he can't be leaned on or else. 

The guys you mentioned would have to take a big step to go from being a #3 to a #2 in quality. More of a hail marry really. Geno did that but it took years where this team needs a #2, not a #3 project. Basically they are closer ro Hooker than any of those guys but Geno who is the exception  and not the rule.

Jackson needs help over the top. Asking him to do what Horn does is just dumb.

32 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

You’re misinterpreting.

The past 2 pages have been calling this guy a liar and “deliberately obtuse” while over analyzing the use of the word “cheering” as the basis to call him a liar and say things never happened lol. Did it not happen at all or are they just comments and jokes in poor taste? Is this guy a liar or an internet autist who just can’t rise to the level of your nuanced message board dialogue to come to a reasonable conclusion about what anybody means by anything they’re saying?

Nope, I was being straightforward. You on the other hand tried to talk about gas lighting while combining sarcasm which just made your take convoluted at best and at worst just straight gas lighting. 

Great now we are using the definition of gas lighting to then gas light. Chefs kiss on that full circle.

18 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

We'll see how far the Dalton line has fallen.

If it's 40 passes vs running heavy again then we certainly will me thinks

Dalton is much better pre snap and getting rid of it in the pocket. I just don't think he has much if any juice left. Basically how he looked in game 2 the last 2 years of his starting stints. So still an improvement from Bryce but a ghost of his former self at this point. If DC doesn't call a run heavy game he is going to have a rough day. 

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

I guess a better framed question which I tried to do.....is what does a bust look like on paper 2.5 years into a career that a team is still trotting out there and hasn't accepted they swung and missed. 

 

But with more time he can turn into the best version of himself that can be...and still not be worth a non-rookie contract. 

26 minutes ago, NAS said:

Listen, even if you don’t think it’s a dirty play the fact that Bryce got hurt on it it’s still classless to showcase on your social media

They are 0-7? What more than a sack can they talk about? It's not a serious injury and there was zip from that clip that was disrespectful, intended or not. 

Clean play and take from them. The video doesn't show anything bad and no one would know there was an injury from the play either. Just looks like a normal sack. 

Would be more impressive if we would have targeted better guys in the first place but it's good to see them move on from some of their mistakes. Now do the rest already...

1 minute ago, CPF4LIFE said:

The question is from daves perspective why does he feel like he can throw it more when dalton plays??? Nobody ever thinks about this...to me it speaks how he really feels about bryce. 

 

Because it's Dave's MO. It's what he wants to do and Dalton allows him to do it, even if he shouldn't. He will run down an old man from the bench but can't do it with Young or Dave is the problem...which says enough about the entire situation IMO

Looks like he will have a new seasons best total this year but they are also 2-5. He had 9 total sacks last year if I remember correctly. 1 year over 10 total too

I would still take that trade in a heart beat. All downhill after that move. He was never a guy they could build around after a mega deal either which he is showing on a bottom 3rd D. Could have been us lol so that 2nd isn't too bad if you forget it was wasted

Just now, strato said:

Has Bruce even been ruled out yet? Wink wink. 
It’s gonna be Hooker or White. Has to be one of them. 

Lol he has....I think

IDK, has to be Hooker since the other guy hasn't even been here a week. Wildcat looking mighty fine if Dalton can't even make it through 1 game 

2 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

Career passing totals

CJ Stroud - 52 TDs   21 Ints

Bryce Young - 37 TDs  24 Ints

 

 

Since his rookie year the offense has gotten worse and the D has improved. Dude is going to be off his rookie deal before they give him what they are giving their D. Classic example of why to pick an offensive HC over deffensive HC. They are set to have a top 5 D and not a winning record like the last 2 years of 10 wins each. Freaking hilarious 

So is Hooker activated or are they just rolling with Dalton and plan B is wildcating thr 2 RBs? 

28 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well the most common record during both their tenures was 7-9. 

I was heavily against the massive teardown that most of the Huddle wanted after 2018. I kept warning people that successful franchises don't do that type of poo.

Turns out....successful franchises don't do that type of poo.

Yeah well I was agaisnt Hurney coming back and then helping hire Rhule but it happened anyways. Tepper has made it so bad and it's still ongoing currently. 

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Also there is the reality of being mediocre like Arizona with the hope of potentially being good versus what we chose, which was to implode the entire organization, burn every aspect of its history and then promptly rebrand as the biggest joke in the NFL. 

So sometimes when you are faced with a neverending hellish existence that is perpetually attempting a destruction and rebuild cycle, the specter of relative mediocrity doesn't seem that bad. At least there is still some level of hope left.

We as Panther fans know this all too well. How we wish for the simpler days of John Fox and Ron Rivera.

I agree but also the Fox/Rivera mediocrity was feast or famine. Arizona bearly hits mediocrity at best and usually worse. Letting Rhule lead the teardown was such a multiplier of pain that it can't be understated. 

4 minutes ago, strato said:

Okay. I mean we are just discussing. 
I never saw Tua as being really a valid guy in tne league. But I am prejudiced against Alabama QBs because of their basic mediocre track records stepping up to the NFL so zi was probably predisposed and biased. But still correct.
FWIW Bryce was such a physical outliee Bama didn’t really enter my thinking. It never became a factor for me. 
Anyhow Murray was kind of a toy, by my standards and not a guy I would have been excited by. Then it got to the contract clause of mandating film study and the game was lost right there. Why would you pay a guy you thought needed the stick instead of the carrot? 
I am just a tools first guy, for gaining admittance to move into the more thorough evaluation phase. It won’t change. 
I just have always been you have to meet the threshold physically before we consider your other areas of potential as a pro. 
Which I believe Jones passed that threshold. And has shown some flashes.  Sure is doing it this year. 
The contention about what how pressure of a big contract might affect his performance, how the roster might lose a player or two two due to his salary precluding paying them, that is something else.

If he continues to compete at this level like he is so far, I would put money on someone paying him though. And we will see what happens. 
 

oops forgot about Darnold. I saw it in him in late ‘22. The ability and him being on the cusp of getting it. He has lived up to the prove it deals, zi don’t what they gave him in Seattle but it seems to be a good choice so far… 

Darnold is making 13 this year and 20 more next. It won't show until next year. Darnold has done a lot of good but his biggest issue is he chokes when it's put on his shoulders. Looks good when it's not. Now bring in a rookie to develop and it gets more positive IMO. Journeyman and fine at the right price...which is not set up well in 26 for them.

Murray is all physicals and little else. They proved you can't win with him on a rookie deal but he is 'their' guy so it never mattered IMO.

Tua was overhyped and couldn't carry poo but did look great when playing  the worst teams. 

Again, Jones has never had a good non-contract year. Physically he has the tools and mentally he has matured but Im not seeing special or top teir. I still think Baker and the Bucs lead that list and is the only ones doing it well in the pay to value conversation. He is making what Darnold signed with more guarantees. That is the sweet spot for value to cost while Darnold isn't, even if they delayed the bill by a year. Murray is making about 50% than those 2 and around 60% more than Jones which is completely insane to me. Tua's contract is even worse than Murray's. I never had an issue with a loaner QB tries here, after Teddy. It was they way they did it and the staff doing it that was my biggest issues. Don't expect a savior, just get a contributor and put them is a spot to succeed. 

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't think it's an overpayment issue. That's just the market. It isn't new at all. The overwhelming majority of big QB contracts are for average to good QB's. That's because there are so incredibly few elite QB's. Almost every position has the same issue. The elite guys pull prices up into the stratosphere and the market adjusts.

 

The supply and demand reality is a big part of the issue but so are teams willingness to overpay even with the obvious issues it raises. They make their profit win or loss and it shows. Arizona hasn't been a contender for most of Murray's career but they keep him around because of supply & demand AND the fact that the owner wins regardless so why not hide behind s&d while keeping the norm going? No reason to play it the hard way, let a guy walk to be overpaid and then find a cast off that can be put in an overall better situation. Too much gamble when the house wins anyways.

1 hour ago, strato said:

I think the second is less than inevitable, yet still possible of course.
That was kind of a circus in NYC. With a strong staff and the experience he has gotten out of his NYG time, it could be different. 

A guy like Jones at average pay is going to not work out IMO. The 20 million difference to spend elsewhere is too large of a hurdle when the QB plays good but not carry the team good. They are in the sweet spot currently at cost to value with him. Darnold is pretty much the same. Good in a limited role but lean on him and he will fold. Tua didn't beat good teams when it had to be on his back to be the difference, and that was true when his team was stacked. All of Murray's talent has resulted in 1 winning season for them and 1 wildcard loss. The NFL has an overpaying mediocre QB issue. At the right price it's not an issue but can be a positive. It inevitably leads to a worse roster which becomes a poo show. NY gave up their RB because they paid Jones and proved that. The first is most likely leading to the second. Baker is bucking that trend but he was always the best of any of that group, even if his time here was pretty much the worst setup possible.

Dalton will look much older, Dave will throw it too much and the D will get reality checked. 

Bills 30 Panthers 13

14 minutes ago, strato said:

If you are talking about how a huge salary would impact the team’s ability to build with quality players, due to the financial burden it imposes, I am in unqualified agreement 

If you mean because the pressure of justifying it affects his performance, I would not swallow that pill unquestionably.
He was in NYC which is the nastiest and more pressure packed media market in the league, and just won’t face the same ‘blood in the water’ viciousness in Indianapolis (or here). 
 

I thought I knew that guy was a good gamble to be rehabbed.and wished we had open minded people making the calls here. 

It's the first and the second is the inevitable with thr first being met. Dude has 2 good years and both in contract years too.