Waldo

13 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Bech or Noel---I think they also like Trapilo (OT) from BC.  I hope they grab a T, personally, but with BC, they may not feel a sense of urgency

I don't think they have an OT under contract next year so they need to find a sense of urgency IMO. Leaning onto BC, who no team wanted this year on a real contract, at this point is a mystery to me. So many coaches have passed him over in his 5 years. So yeah take an OT and hole they can become a solid backup at least

The trade up to #1 was bad on so many levels. Maybe the trade into the first last year. Not making the Burns trade and then the trade they ended up making looks bad in comparison but not stand alone. The CMC trade could be up there but that one was complex given the Panthers situation at that time.

All of those teir 2 guys that start going in the top 5 this year will give teams a chance to show their values. The reality is that crop of guys is only different in how much the talking heads gassed some up vs others when there is so little difference but they had to talk about something else vs just making an entire draft about 2 guys and 2 meh QBs.

The fact they appear to value Williams more isn't shocking IMO. Certainly anticlimactic but the first pick is going to be just that for most of the first when the 2nd round is so close in talent.

A trade back is still better than any player that could be on the board at 8. It's not a lock but it would be thr best move of the night if they can pull that off. Another project when they need a pass specialist would just be par for their course.

21 hours ago, CPcavedweller said:

Why do we need to draft a safety? We don’t. We just pulled a big money safety in Free Agency and wasting a pick there when your front four needs to be fixed is what will lead to continual problems. 
 

Speaking of which, I don’t even think Walker or Williams will fix that. I would pass on them and go defense in the 2nd round where the talent drop off is really not that big. So take the BPA. Take Warren. 
 

Morgan, if you read this, you must draft Tyler Warren. 

Lol. Wasting big money on a run support safety is peak 1980s and just dumb, which this year will reveal once it's over and they fire Evero.

Acting like having 1 safety that can cover anything is bad. Acting like Warren isn't also the same as the rest of the teir 2 guys is hilarious. That dude is a 2nd round TE in most drafts...just like everyone after the 2 teir 1 guys in this draft.

The only offensive guys worth taking at 8 are OTs.

There won't be anyone better than a trade back at 8 but the chips have to fall in their favor. There will be an early trade and I just hope it's us.

Still meh but I would still take EZ over him at this point. Better production, skills and size who is already an established rusher vs project.

The same reason people say there is less chance of a trade due to the nature of the class are ignoring the fact that's what keeps the door open for a trade. Everyone we have been staring at and debating at 8 are not that different then the guys in the 20s this year. It only takes 1 team to fool themselves into thinking that's not true or to let need take the wheel. It already happens here. Sanders, the rb, the TE, a possible OT or hell throw Walker into that pile. There are players good enough for someone to make a mistake but not good enough to worry about losing them in a trade back.

Who knows. This draft is weird. It's going to be fun to see how that shakes down. With the quality NIL has brought to that level of play this could be the new normal.

Meh, he has big upside. Worst case he is more wasted physical talent. I still prefer a trade back and an extra pick early. Lots of meh at top 10 value this year but that isn't big picture long term terrible. Just meh.

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, Icky still has a long way to go as a pass protector before I'll be on board with him being the long-term solution (meaning a gob of salary cap tied up) at LT. For sure pick up his 5th year option to buy us toke but I'm not even having discussions about a long-term contract.

Not yet. This should be a wait and see 4th year. If he has a probelem with that we should be taking an OT early. I have no idea where it all stands but there shouldn't be a route where we don't pick up that 5th year option. He has cleared that level.

I'm also not sure on the difference in pay from OK LTs to good RTs. Would he get a shot at RT in 26 under that 5th year option? Would he even want to try? IDK. Not picking up an easy 5th is a red flag for me that something is off if not a smoke screen. Which would be weird given our history, like watching a frog fly from bumping it's arse.

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I just see more opportunity for specialization with a position like WR where you're playing more bodies where with positions like safety and OT that guy is generally going to play most of not all snaps barring an injury.

I used to be. Didn't like smaller WRs where Smith was the exception to hold up. Now I just want them to be balanced and run routes. Sure the other guys can work out in rotation but I'm going the former everytime.

Look Ickey has to take a huee steps this year. 63ish to 66ish isn't enough of a jump. Maybe not but his 5th year option is a no brainer anyways. If not it's RT or he should become a Moerig somewhere else.

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I was thinking more a long the lines of what we were talking about about with Icky - run blocking vs. pass blocking for a LT. Yeah, the elite guys are really good at both but if you're having to pick, definitely choose pass blocking over run blocking st that position.

Sure but LT is more like QB where scarcity requires adaptation. WR and Safety have plenty of guys coming out that can go the obvious route in their respective types. My example wasn't really well done I guess.

12 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, outside of the elite guys you kinda have to pick and choose. Pick coverage when it comes to DBs.

Would that be like route skills and catching vs potential and big body at WR?

20 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, the enforcer safety should have likely gone the way of the fullback with the new rules and the modern pass happy NFL offense. Just like the RB who was too slow or the TE who was too small used to play FB, now that guy is pretty much just not in the NFL aside from a few select individuals in select systems. Same thing with the undersized LB at safety. That guy probably just shouldn't be in the modern NFL unless as a backup and he's also an elite STer.

It was such an overcorrection. Not having safeties that can cover just ignores everything the NFL has done the last 20 years. There is a front 7 and those guys need to be stronger against the run.

Now a safety that can also tackle along with coverage? That's the dream.

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Moehrig was such a a head scratching signing. He's a 1980s safety in the 2020s.

The era of the undersized LB At safety should be over with the possible exception of the SS in a cover 3 scheme but in that situation you should probably be looking at that position as a spot to save cap space not burn through it.

Yeah that's it. Could have had Chinn at half the price. It was a mistake and I think they will have to eat that one hard this year.

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Agreed. I'd love to find one in the draft but I think it might end up being a battle between a vet off the waiver wire and Richardson. What I definitely DON'T want to do is simply draft a safety out of desperation like when Gettleman spam drafted CBs after knee jerk yanking the tag off of Norman. 

I agree. The safety room looks bad and I think they already made their knee jerk reaction by signing Moehrig after committing to stopping the run in so many other places. That unit is set up for disaster IMO. Jackson nor Horn can't cover everyone themselves and if the passrush doesn't materialize then it gets real ugly. Richardson is the wild card but if you ask me to bet on the Panthers developing talent it's not one I'm taking, especially from Evero.

31 minutes ago, Lurk21 said:

I agree but I'm guessing they are keeping Julian Blackmon as a fallback option. Which isn't bad but  depends on how the picks go. We definitely  need a wr added too. Kind if wonder will they make a play for Kittle or  Andrew's, with both being rumored on the market too. 

As it stands our safeties look like liabilities at this point. Not sure Blackmon helps much given how Moehrig is basically useless in coverage. Moehrig and Scott are huge red flags if that's their day 1 starters. Not sure Evero makes it through the season season if that is the case.

30 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't love this safety class. It won't surprise me if we don't see value there. We shouldn't reach just because we have a need this year. A big part of our failure to ever put together consecutive winning seasons is constantly flailing to find bandaid solutions vs. actually focusing on building the core of a roster. I'm a firm believer in getting your bandaid solutions in low to mid-level FA and using the draft to try to build the majority of your core roster. Basically, using free agent for the pressing current needs and thinking longer term with the draft.

I like the first 2 for sure. Still they went and blew money on a SS that can't cover. They desperately need one that can or they are going to have containment issues. They have one special teamer who sucks and one young guy who hasn't done much of anything which is an improvement over the first guy. It's still a need unfortunately.

Not landing a safety in the first 3 rounds is going to be a hard fail for me just like no RB or WR later eould also be fails in this draft. Edge and FS look really bad without talent injections at this point.

The 5th option is an easy call. He already lit a fire himself after his 2nd season was bad. Even if he isn't a HoFer his 5th option should be an easy call. Long term negotiations shouldn't even enter into that but it should lean into it by giving a tradable year to the Panthers if he is negotiating that poorly.

The only angle I get is that it effects the draft process and Moton. That's weird because of how poorly all of that has been since Tepper showed up. They figure out how to do basic draft posturing but still keep a dead weight DC comimg off of terrible season while building a D around that? Too difficult to guess but it's going to be interesting to watch it play out. It's just too hard to expect basic competencies still. Wel will see what the hell that is really all about.

52 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

and from Morgans comment about Icky things could get interesting regarding his 5th year.  Not sure why they dont just pick it up as he deserves a 5th, dont make this difficult

I'm all for pushing him to take that next step but he is already a solid LT so the 5th option should be an easy call even if negotiations go sideways. Morgan needs to worry about dragging the D is to respectability because it's still not looking close to good.

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If we think the BPA is an OT and there's no compelling offers to trade down I'm open to it.

You gotta remember Moron is going into the last year of his contract and you're either going to have to back up the Brinks truck to pay a guy on the wrong side of 30 or you're going to have to let him walk for a comp pick... or you trade him.

'We are great' turns into 'ohh poop' real fast in the NFL. Moton has a 1 year contract and they just spent big on 2 OGs and a LT coming up on his big payday. He shouldn't be here next year given all of that. It's already the highest paid Oline. Teams need rookie contracts. How healthy is he anyways has to be added into thst mix too.

All the home grown moaning is just a thing because they have been terrible at drafting and the stupid trade up to #1 IMO. Moore is the only one we are really missing. The OTs look better than the TEs and WRs. The entire buffet of D options is in that 'maybe but' category where need gives them more value.

I would rather have the FS than Golden. Golden looks solid, like him more than Tet from what I have seen. Still not ending up with the best playable immediately talent on the D would be a hard fail in round 1. The D's free agency injection was a start but not close enough to where it needs to be.

My 2 big negatives are not upgrading a one of many positions that  needs improvement and not a good look for a franchise that is at the bottom of the leauge in wins recently.

Bringing in a rookie to play next to Hunt and offsetting his bloated contract with a rookie contract is what good teams would do. It's set up for next year anyways and his health is an unknown at this point. No idea about the savings this year it would be a cya move moving forward for sure.

Also, there could be a hole in the center of the line so it's not like improvement isn't unwelcome long term, even if they really need to find players on the D to inject imediate competition at the minimum. They still need to take one some time this draft and I'm fine with a later development type guy of Moton's wheels have one last year in him.

Best news of the offseason.

No one who is available at 8 will be much different than in the twenties this year. Trade back with an additional 2nd is still my wish scenario.

The only part of this that is surprising post Carr is anyone wanting Rogers with the totality of what he showed in NJ. Dude is nothing but a name and a bag of cancer he brings with him.

I'm glad Sanders is heating up. It increases the chances of a trade back and that's absolutely what I am still wishing for.